The problem of "infantilizing" Bush and conservatives in general

[Right Makes Might]

That is, that we tend to demonize the "opposition," or, in our case, "dummify" them. From an article that addresses this tendency, in particular in discussions about Bush:



Babies and Bath Water
By DAHLIA LITHWICK

What's wrong with continuing efforts to characterize Mr. Bush as a not-particularly-smart third grader? For one thing, it plays to every stereotype of liberals as snotty know-it-alls who think everyone in a red state is anti-intellectual or simple-minded. It answers name-calling from the right with name-calling from the left.

These assertions also insult anyone who voted for Mr. Bush in 2000. Rather than offering an argument for Mr. Kerry, they merely disparage swing voters, who may be tempted to defect to the Democrats over the war or the economy, by sneering that they voted for a kid - and a dumb kid at that.

<snip>

Furthermore, the campaign to cast Mr. Bush as a bumbling child ignores the very grown-up machine that stands behind him. Infantilizing the president shifts the focus away from the Cheneys, Rumsfelds, Ashcrofts and Wolfowitzes. These are the men who promised us short, easy wars and painless little suspensions of the Geneva Conventions. These are the men of the secret energy-policy meetings. They aren't a bunch of rowdy juveniles. They represent one of the most secretive, powerful administrations in recent memory. Whether the president could outscore your kids on the SAT is a distraction from that fact.

<snip>

This election is not a choice between adults and children, and it won't be won or lost with jokes about whether Laura ties the president's shoes each morning before she points him toward the Oval Office. Nothing is gained by offering Mr. Bush even a metaphorical second childhood. Much may be gained by offering our real children a safe and just first one.

Link: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/19/opinion/19lithwick.html

[Vickers]

1. There was the "Get Your War On" cartoon, where he says, "If being a

liberal elitist means not being the dumbest motherfucker in the room, then I am one" or something like that.

Works for me.

Why should I dumb down just because X amount of folks are evil, ignorant fucksticks? Sorry, doesn't work that way for me.

[Trajan]

2. Rightist Apologism ....

Funny how she hasn't written about this issue since the rise of the right wing 'demonizers', who rant how even moderate democrats are 'socialists' or worse .... only when the legitimate disgust of George Bush and his party's extreme policies comes to the fore as vocal criticism will she bemoan the 'demonization' of the polity ...

Well: FUCK the right wing: they have been smearing US for decades, unfettered by criticism: now it's time to lay in the bed they have made ....

[sidwill]

3. But.....

They ARE evil, religiously fanatical, anti-intelectual, fascists dummies.

I thought we were all pretty clear on that point.

[Vladimir]

24. Indeed

one of the biggest problems i have with some liberal (in the European sense of the word) friends of mine is that they simply refuse to call a bigot, or racist, or sexist as what they are... this belief that no opinions are wrong is such fantastic postmodernit tripe.

[jus_the_facts]

4. the problem is actually caused by over half of the country....

....that isn't even REGISTERED to vote and doesn't think gov't is there for their benefit. :nopity: :eyes:

[maxsolomon]

23. that's because the government ISN'T there for their benefit

its there to protect the interests of Capital in the form of wealth & property.

But point taken. People should vote.

[jus_the_facts]

27. if all those who're disinfranchised by the way the gov't works today..

....voted against the corporate agenda...then we wouldn't even be here havin' this discussion.....ahhh in a more perfect world...where everyone didn't have their heads up their asses. x(

[thebigidea]

5. well, you can feel free to cuddle and Care Bear the opposition, then

I'm sure they'll appreciate it whilst they shove their metaphorical fists down your throat.

This is hardly new, Miller has been saying as much for years - most of us are beyond the "Oh Bush is so dumb" thing and can see the evil behind the aw-shucks facade.

When the hell did the Kerry campaign ever make jokes about Laura and Bush's shoelaces, anyway? What a stupid strawman that is.

Is the saying that COMEDIANS shouldn't make jokes about Bush, then? Because I don't see the Kerry camp making with the funny very often.

[Cleita]

6. This is beyond right wing or left wing politics.

Supporting Bush, the theocrats and the fascist PNAC that have taken our government hostage by a Supreme Court abetted coup amounts to treason to me. They are not honoring the Constitution they are sworn to uphold and should be removed. I believe it is unpatriotic to give them one ounce of credibility.

[Right Makes Might]

10. I thinks that's the point

Instead of focusing on how stupid Bush is, focus on all the evil things he and, more importantly, the people behind him (like the PNAC and the CNP) have done and are doing.

Not everyone who calls themselves conservative is the enemy, not everyone who voted for Bush is the enemy. Are there some conservatives who are so far gone that they think it's funny to talk about blowing people up because they protested Iraq or other sick crap? Of course, but I'm not talking about them. I'm talking about all the middle of the road conservatives, like the ones I work with, who went to F9/11 and were appalled. Because they didn't know even a fraction of the stuff Moore exposed.

Telling them they're stupid isn't going to get them on our side. Besides it's wrong, both with the fact that they're not stupid, but also the fact that it's not a good thing to do.

There are lots of good reasons why we can't get down into the gutter with the right wing nuts who think insulting people is a legitimate political tactic. We also have to get rid of any elitist thinking we may have in putting these people down.

[thebigidea]

13. so who in the Kerry camp is calling Bush & the Republicans stupid?

[HFishbine]

15. If

they saw F911 and were appalled, then they are not stupid. But the chowder heads are stupid.

[giant_robot]

7. "the campaign to cast Mr. Bush as a bumbling child"

is a strawman. George Bush is not a bumbling child, and I don't believe that's a popular characterization by the progressive opposition. He is, however, a stone-cold dumbass.

After 3 1/2 years of "peeance freeance", subliminable, nook-yu-lar, um, shame on...won't get fooled again, etc., you just have to call a dumbass a dumbass.

[Vladimir]

8. The article of course has a point

but your topic does not. It is true that to focus on Bush as stupid is counterproductive, it may even be true to say that this alienates some people. In election year, in particular, the latter criticism may be valid, although one would hope that certain voters, at least, would wish to vote someone with a double digit IQ into the White House. Nontheless your stated premise, that liberals and conservatives share the same problem, is wrong. There is nothing at all problematic about demonising the opposition - if you demonise the correct opposition. Right wingers demonise women, homosexuals, muslims, blacks, etc. Liberals demonise racists, sexists, bigots etc. I don't think its hard to see that one group is correct in their demonisation, or indeed to infer which group this is...

[Right Makes Might]

12. I realized this was a bad topic title after I'd posted

I just get frustrated when I see some progressives, good people, falling into the same tactics that are used by right wing extremists. It's counterproductive and it's wrong.

I'm going to try to change the title to something less insulting.

[thebigidea]

14. and it isn't insulting to compare liberals to right wing extremists?

[Right Makes Might]

18. Isn't it worse to let your friends and allies

do things that are wrong?

I never said progressives are like far right extremists, although some progressives unfortunately do some of the same things that are wrong. When we do things that are wrong, we need our friends to say something to us.

[thebigidea]

21. Nah. Its still worse to compare liberals to racists, neocons, etc.

The NYTimes article is old hat. I don't know who she's chastizing, we're much smarter than that.

[Vladimir]

19. But why does it annoy you so?

After all, a large part of the reason why even flaming racists will no longer call a black person a n*****r in polite society is because racism has been demonised. To me, this is a perfectly satisfactory state of affairs...

[Right Makes Might]

25. Great point, and I agree

But there's a difference between demonising something, or some people, which is truly reprehensible and demonising potential allies, people who are generally good and would join with us if they really knew the truth. Insulting them is not the way to win them.

Also, more importantly, it misses the real issues. As to why people become conservative, it's usually because they don't know any better combined with a relatively privileged social position that shields them from the more horrific aspects of the system they support.

The other issue is with the current administration. The problem is not that Bush is a moron (and I'm not arguing that he's not) but that what he's doing is evil. And we're not going to win people with the moron argument - they'll still vote for him if they think he's right about terror. See this article from Esquire: http://www.keepmedia.com/ShowItemDetails.do?refID=19&item_id=505604

The Case for George W. Bush
i.e., what if he's right?

by Tom Junod | Aug 01 '04

Ah. That feels better. George W. Bush is an asshole, isn't he? Moreover, he's the first president who seems merely that, at least in my lifetime. From Kennedy to Clinton, there is not a single president who would have been capable of striking such a pose after concluding a speech about a war in which hundreds of Americans and thousands of Iraqis are being killed. There is not a single president for whom such a pose would seem entirely characteristic—not a single president who might be tempted to confuse a beefcakey photo opportunity with an expression of national purpose. He has always struck me as a small man, or at least as a man too small for the task at hand, and therefore a man doomed to address the discrepancy between his soul and his situation with displays of political muscle that succeed only in drawing attention to his diminution. He not only has led us into war, he seems to get off on war, and it's the greedy pleasure he so clearly gets from flexing his biceps or from squaring his shoulders and setting his jaw or from landing a plane on an aircraft carrier—the greedy pleasure the war president finds in playacting his own attitudes of belligerence—that permitted me the greedy pleasure of hating him.

The people who dislike George W. Bush have convinced themselves that opposition to his presidency is the most compelling moral issue of the day. Well, it's not. The most compelling moral issue of the day is exactly what he says it is, when he's not saying it's gay marriage. The reason he will be difficult to unseat in November—no matter what his approval ratings are in the summer—is that his opponents operate out of the moral certainty that he is the bad guy and needs to be replaced, while he operates out of the moral certainty that terrorists are the bad guys and need to be defeated. The first will always sound merely convenient when compared with the second. Worse, the gulf between the two kinds of certainty lends credence to the conservative notion that liberals have settled for the conviction that Bush is distasteful as a substitute for conviction—because it's easier than conviction.



We've got to keep the focus on what's right, as in what is correct. Bush and his cronies are evil PNAC you-know-what's who need to be dragged out of power before they do any more damage.

[Vladimir]

26. Well of course I agree with you

that in election year, a certain amount of pandering to the scum of the earth (sorry, swing voters) is necessary. That is why I post so very very little about the Kerry campaign, its not that I am not interested its merely that I recognise that I am going to hear very little from them that I would like for the next year or so. It was really only the original two sentences of your post I had a problem with...

[EST]

30. HEAR, HEAR dammit!

n/t

[ibegurpard]

9. Where was this argument 14 years ago?

When the right perfected and trademarked and started really rolling out the idea of incivility in the public discourse? Anyone who's NOW tarring BOTH sides is being completely disingenuous.

[skypilot]

11. I hope the "Right" in your screen name...

...means "right" as in moral, correct, or proper.

[Right Makes Might]

16. Actually, it refers to "correct"

As is if you know what is correct, you have power.

Edit: If anyone's ever read any of my posts, I'm sure they wouldn't confuse it with that other meaning of "right."

[skypilot]

17. Hi, Right Makes Might...

This is actually the first post of yours I'd read and my suspicious nature just kicked in. Welcome to DU.

[Right Makes Might]

20. Thanks, and no worries.

I don't get to post very often and I can see why you'd think that with the title I'd put up there, LOL!

[pbg]

22. We offer two choices

His policies are either due to incompetence--or evil.

We're being charitable in our accusations of incompetence.

He either destroyed the economy and looted the treasury for his friends because he's simply our version of Mobutu Sese Seko--
--or he's an idiot who still believes in the Laffer curve.

He either went to war in a cynical grab for imperialist power, control of Iraq's oil, and the opportunity to wave the flag while his friends got a way with the biggest war-profiteering scam in the history of the planet--
--or he's an idiot who really believed Paul Wolfowitz and Richard Perle.


He either doesn't give a shit about the environment and only wants to let his corporate friends lay waste to public lands for more money--
--or he's an idiot who believes that the Last Judgment's a-comin', so what's the point?

Greedy amoral thug or incompetent idiot? YOU make the call!

[EST]

28. Sorry for characterizing but--BS

I don't think any great percentage of thinking voters ignore the evil malice of the machine--that's calling us too dumb to see the trees. Also, any independant who voted for * and now fails to do a little research and just look around himself, noticing the crap, is absolutely (IMO) too stupid to come in out of the acid rain. Deliberate, self-willed ignorance, I must say, definately qualifies as stupid, and I make no apology for that view. One could, I suppose, make the argument for some sort of self destructive mental imbalance, but that also qualifies. Bush is dumber than shit, but he is not the real president, just a talking head. I, too, did not recognize the malevolence behind the lies that got so many votes for Bush in 2000, although I didn't vote for him. I listen to so many callers on CSPAN and they are so emotional they will refuse to see the obvious.
I don't think any opinions posted here on DU are even going to be SEEN by anyone who is not already pretty well sure this bunch bunch of crazy bastards is out to rule the whole friggin' world and not do so for the benefit of any of us normal people.

[Right Makes Might]

31. We're more educated, not more intelligent

than the swing voters you're talking about.

Most of these people believe that what they read in the papers is the truth ("they couldn't actually lie about that, could they?") just like they thought that the Bush administration was telling the truth when they were talking about WMD's ("they couldn't possibly lie and send American's to die, could they?")

They're victims of long years of propogandizing but they can be won, especially now with so much of what's normally kept hidden is spilling into the public's awareness. Now is the time to win these people over to the truth. Not drive them back into the arms of the lying snakes.

Edit: Whether or not people come to read posts on DU, we posters, and our friends, go out and deal with people all the time. We write articles. And if we're not out there trying to educate people and expose these monsters then we should get our butts moving.

[EST]

32. I do, very much, admire your generous nature and calm

approach to the subject of winning willing minds, and most of the time I find myself walking the same road. As a result of physical circumstances I spend entirely too much time watching the screaming matches on TV and turning them off in anger and frustration.
However, for many years, we have been thoughtful and honest, caring and even, on occasion, honorable. We have argued respectfully that certain policies are bad for America and the world. We have led the way toward human rights and the values that ultimately help the less fortunate, hopefully, without totally consigning ourselves to penury. Most of the people I have supported for public office have tried to see the big picture and bring respect and honor to us all. Unfortunately, while leading, one must look behind and see that not nearly enough are following.
Does this mean we should abandon our values? I think not at all. What it does mean is we hold onto the good, and now we have to get PISSED.
We have to use all the tools available to us and one of the tools must now be the tool of effective anger. Real, flat out "I ain't gonna take it anymore" anger that can lead to action and can infect others. You can't logically dissuade anyone from a position they have arrived at emotionally. This bunch we have in power means no good for anyone of the 6.5 billion people who are not on the inside of their clique and have to be opposed by every means available, and now we have to use emotion. There's much, much more I'd like to say, but that's enough for now.

[Right Makes Might]

33. You gotta know who to be nice to and who to get pissed with

This is definitely a very difficult thing, but it's a very, very important thing, I think.

Who are our allies? Obviously, there are many good people who simply don't understand the truth - for them we need to unite with them and work with them to expose the truth.

Who are our enemies? This is also a vital question to get the correct answer to. We cannot compromise with them. When we've tried, it's only lead to defeat - at best. At worst, it's lead to our death and destruction (read up on the history of the people's social-democratic revolution in Germany after WWI for a heart-wrenching example.)

We need to be discriminating and know who's who, and use the correct tactic with each group.

[EST]

37. Yes, I do agree with you and must profess some familiarity with

history. I am clear about what happens when people are self-deluded and only see the bread-and-circuses part of political power and miss the responsibility.
I must confess that I am laboring under the notion, arrived at after some research, that even regime change may not be enough to halt what I see as an inexorable march toward world domination (in the most vile sense) of the current bunch. This sinister group is, as far as I know, the first since WWII to establish an official lies agency (the OSI) and considers disinformation about any and every subject to be perfectly okay and in fact, recommended. The time available is, I'm afraid, very limited, if it has not totally disappeared. I sadly fear that, if it begins to look like we are actually going to toss the bastards out and reverse the slide toward fascism, some excuse will be made for them to seize power permanently. Maybe I have been infected with the shadows behind every corner disease, but at this point I am unwilling to accept such a diagnosis. I do not use the words "evil" or "malevolent" lightly. I have seen many bad, stupid, or incompetent people attain positions of influence, but this is the first time I have become so alarmed.
This time anger, fear, or any other motivation must be raised and used. If referring to our own pet goat as an imbecile, while staying cognizant of the real, enormously brilliant hydra behind him gets results, I'm all for it.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

29. Just the facts, ma'am. Bush is an adolescent dolt.

More adolescent than childish. Swaggers, smirks, narrow-minded, self-righteous, unlearned, self-absorbed, sexually ambiguous, frequently incoherent and unintelligable.

In short, the archetypical, insecure, 14 year old male posing as grown-up.

[Cocoa]

34. strawman

she talks about Moore, but she neglects to mention that every time Moore is asked if Bush is smart, he says Bush is very smart, and that his team is very smart.

She talks about MoveOn, but neglects to mention that their winning ad was about the deficit.

She talks about the Bush-Gore debate, but she neglects to mention that the "sighing" scandal was a media invention, not a reality. And that Gore won that election.

Who is this person, anyway?

[Right Makes Might]

35. Are you saying the most popular slur by liberals about

conservatives in general and Bush in particular is "stupid"?

Maybe Moore does say he's smart, but no one else does. We've got to deal with the mistaken tactic of 1) attacking possible allies who don't know any better and driving them away and 2) saying the problem is Bush's stupidity (or psychological disorder, whatever.) The problem isn't Bush. The problem is that these PNAC/CNP monsters are trying to push to win hegemony of the globe... at the expense of the people both here and in other countries.

[Cocoa]

36. many others say he's smart

I've heard Kerry and others in his campaign say it, often, every time they're asked about it. Very respectful of him, nothing like what's in this column.

And I've rarely if ever heard any dem or serious commentator call him stupid, especially in the way this person describes.

During the primaries, Gephardt came the closest, when he described his impressions from working with him. But he specifically said Bush was not stupid, just that he didn't think things through.

It would help if this column contained some specifics, and some kind of acknowledgement that whatever she's talking about really doesn't happen very much.

[EST]

42. Hear, hear!

n/t

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Swamp Rat]

39. I understand your point and would agree if the world wasn't so cruel.

I'll "dummify" and ridicule who and when I want, and I don't care what right wing propagandists say. They do it all the time and have a multi-billion dollar platform from which to do it. Call it "wrong" or "adolescent" if you wish, but I'm not taking their shit laying down. Calling Bush an "idiot" etc. DOES draw attention to the puppet masters. Pointing out the stupid things they do and say doesn't mean that we don't recognize how dangerous or insidious they can be, but it does tear them down in front of their devotees.

[ClassWarrior]

40. Agreed. He's not stupid. He's DANGEROUS.

A CRIMINAL. GREEDY. CORRUPT.

(Whether you believe he's stupid or not, DON'T SAY IT! It lets the slimy little bastard off the hook.)

[sweetheart]

41. ya got balls to say that here, mate.

Bush and his criminals deserve nothing except prison. That is not
making them infantile, nor does it respect them any more than any
other treasonous felons. They can rot in the same prison with saddam
for subverting the constitution in florida 2000, and jeb should be
there too.

That they can't run on their record after 4 years says it all.
4 years of theft and crime, and they can only attack potential
threats as if the democratic process were terrorism itself.

Orange alert, people are about to vote the filthy scum out of office
and even terrorists agree, that they should be nowhere near
government.

I'm for a celebrity boxing match in a maximum security prison
between 200 year life inmate bush and 200 year life inmate osama
bin laden... and between them i'd wager bin laden would kick that
monster's ass. He's been kicking AWOL's ass for years, and why would
it stop in person.

Bush has fucked the country and the planet of the opportunity for
a real pax-americana... and instead we have a fuckup-americana...
it is more than dumb, it is once in a million years stupid.