Bad guy uses machine gun, so now cops want them?- Indianapolis

[Cobia]

Jackson wants to know how many dead police it will take before IPD arms its officers with the same kind of firepower that Kenneth C. Anderson used to kill Patrolman Timothy "Jake" Laird early Wednesday........

http://www.indystar.com/articles/7/172183-2727-009.html

[Fovea]

1. I don't know. Does that mean they will take

'Protect and Serve' off the cars and replace it with
'Kill them all, God will sort 'em out.'?

[MrSandman]

2. A rapid fire rifle...

Does not a machine gun make.

There is no reason for the IPD not have the AR 15's issued to at least supervisors. The police here have honest to God machine guns, not AR's.

[Fescue4u]

3. No mention of a machine gun in the article

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot]

4. Nope

The SKS is not a machine gun. It's semi automatic, period.

The AR-15 is not a machine gun. It's semi automatic, period.

Lots of other debatable material in that article as well.

[MrSandman]

5. Understatement...n/t

[LibraLabSoldier]

6. Guns look scary!!

Too many movies have caused people to think that any gun they see in real life that looks like a gun they see in a movie functions the same way. I have got to train on some of the biggest and most powerful machine guns the army has. The M2 .50 cal is the big guy. However, no one is gonna use a two hundred pound machine gun to kill cops with. The next is no longer used, which is the M60, aka the Pig, the Bitch, ect. It fires a 7.62 mm round. It tops out at almost 40 lbs loaded, but also not an effective killer, unless you build a placement for it, and have it properly set up. Military machine guns are defensive weapons.

Which brings me to my personal assigned weapons. The M9 Berretta 9mm, and the M4 carbine. The M4 is 5.56. It is technically a light machine gun, but just barely. It has a select fire switch to fire three round bursts, or single fire semi automatic. The Berretta can be purchased at any gun store. The point is that the lethality of a weapon has less to do with design, and more to do with the training of the person weilding it.

I own a perfectly legal post ban AK 47. It is no more lethal than my 762 Remington Woodsmaster .30-06 deer rifle. I have used both to hunt deer, with similar results. However, if you ask anyone on the street which is more dangerous, they will pick the AK every time. Why? Because it "looks" dangerous.

Police do not need fully automatic small arms for the same reason the military doesnt issue soldiers fully automatic small arms. Your odds of actually killing all of your intended targets DECREASES in full auto mode, and you run out of ammunition much faster. Not to mention that the weapon itself has a much higher mechanical failure rate when fired like this.

What would reduce crime? More cops, not less guns.

It has been proven in interviews with incarcerated criminals that they are less likely to enter a home where the homeowner might be armed. Why is this? Criminals dont want to get shot.

The issue should not be about getting the cops the same equipment as the bad guys. It should be making sure that cops not only outnumber the bad guys, but once the bad guys have committed the crime, they are put away until they never, never want to commit another crime again.

Just my two cents.

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot]

7. I hear ya bud

but your preaching to the choir :P

I shoot my AR and my AKM (SSR-85C) quite often. Usually someone will ask me if they are illegal or not every trip. Of course both are totally legal, and the SSR even comes with paperwork from the armorers that built it attesting to it's compliance.

I will disagree with you on one thing, full auto for police. Tactical police units like SWAT and ERT might be well served with full auto. CQB operations benefit from full auto capability, but past, say 20 yards, semi is more desireable.

Right, we do need more cops. That's why I'm working on getting hired as a deputy in my county. It seems like there are more criminals today, it would make sense to have more law enforcement.

As to the Ma Deuce and the M60 (replaced by the M240G), whish I could have some trigger time on them just for the experience.

[LibraLabSoldier]

9. The 60 is gone

And good riddance. The M249 SAW, and the whole 240 series are better.

I go to the range here at Fort Sill. It is much safer and easier. I have gotten some envious looks from some of my guns....I have a .303
British Mk1 No5 jungle carbine Bolt Action that is in museum quality condition....I gave one collector a heart attack when I placed it on the bench rest and fired fifty or so rounds through it. At 100 meters it kept a 2.5 inch grouping....

The effectiveness and lethality of a weapon has more to do with training than the weapon itself. I hate it when people buy a pistol for home defense, put it in a drawer, and never fire it.

You wouldnt expect to buy a piano, never practice, and play like a virtuoso the first time....People just seem to assume that having a gun will make them safe.


Having a gun, and knowing how to effectively use it will make you safe.

[Rainstorm]

8. A SKS is not an assault weapon...

...under any legal definition including the definition included in the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban. It has a ten round magazine, no pistol grip and was considered obsolete 30 years ago. Its bullet is a medium power. Most hunting rifles are more powerful. In military terms it is considered a 200 yd weapon. The M1 Garand, used by US forces in WWII, is considered a 500 yd weapon as a comparison.

I have a good life long friend that just retired as Police Chief of a large Chicago suburb last year. He told me that the biggest problem the police departments have is the threat of a law suit. There are opportunistic lawyers looking for an excuse to sue a police department in the case of a shooting. They will look at training records to make sure that every policeman is qualified to carry and use a weapon. If there is the slightest discrepancy in the records it could be the grounds for a large settlement. That is probably the reason the Indianapolis Police Department has not issued the M-16s yet. Until they can afford an air tight/suit proof training program they cannot afford to issue the weapons.

My friend told me he spent at least 75% of his time as Police Chief just making sure that their procedures and training were lawsuit proof. He spent very little time doing actual police work.

[LibraLabSoldier]

10. A revision to my post

More cops LESS LAWYERS, will reduce crime.