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Does Bush support Vietnam Veterans? I think not.

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Cloud Donating Member (380 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 07:33 PM
Original message
Does Bush support Vietnam Veterans? I think not.
I have been a member of DU for about 10 months now. I mostly lurk but I do post and put in my 2 cents every once in a while.

A post I read earlier today by Anj in which he talks about the service of his two brothers in Vietnam, one of which comitted suicide and the other is in a mental institution. It broke my heart and now I want to share my own story.

I don't see how anyone can support Bush. All of the smearing of John Kerry's Vietnam record is making me sick. Remember, they did the same thing to John McCain in the primaries in 2000. Karl Rove, the political advisor for Bush spread around the rumor that McCain was with a prostitute and fathered a child with a black woman.

The worse part was because McCain spent nearly 6 years as a POW the Bush campaign in 2000 said he was mentally unstable to be president.

My grandma came over today. We talked about the smearing of John Kerry. My mom is voting for John Kerry and I am voting for John Kerry too. My grandma said that if she were still voting it would be for John Kerry too. She hasn't voted for several years because she is getting too old and it is a lot of effort to leave the house.

In this election I was voting for John Kerry because I don't think Bush deserves another 4 years. We have record budget deficits that me and my children will be paying off, Unless Bush creates 1.1 million new jobs or so in the next few months he will be the first president since Herbert Hoover to have a net loss of jobs. It seems very likely since only 32,000 new jobs were created in July. Oil is nearly 50 dollars a barrel and the economic recovery is stalled. Meanwhile the death count is almost 1000 in Iraq, it is 963 or 949 depending on which source you use. Bush has also cut veterans benefits. I have read a few stories about injured troops paying for their own meals in the hospitals.

Does Bush and the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth really support veterans?

My dad was a Vietnam veteran. He dropped out of high school when he was 17 to get his GED and go to Vietnam. He served in the U.S. Marines from 1966 to 1969 which was the height of the war. He was an artillery director and a sharpshooter. He was in Da Nang and also up in far north Vietnam near the chinese border. I still have his Marines pin. It is a globe with an anchor on it. He died of a cocaine overdose in Janurary of 1984. The police came to search the house and left him in handcuffs on the front lawn. His heart stopped. I was 4 months old. I don't speak of this very often at all. Whenever I am asked about my dad I just tell people he died in a car wreck. Or it was my uncle or whatever. I was just too embarrased. Now after the smearing of John Kerry I am proud of all that serve. I can tell the story now without feeling bad. My mom told me he never talked about the war. She said during the 4th of July when fireworks were going off he would duck his head and have a few panic attacks. Remember, he was an artillery director and screeching fireworks and popping brings back memories and sounds awfully familiar to howitzers.

I remember my mom talking to me when I was about 4 or 5 years old when we went to put flowers on his grave. She told me he served in Vietnam and came back alive. She said he came back home alive but many also came home in a casket. I of course had no idea what she was talking about at the time.

I can't believe it has been 20 years since he passed away. I saw the travelling Vietnam wall when it came to Las Cruces. We all know 58,000 troops died in Vietnam. When we hear that number it doesn't really affect us. It is just a number. However seeing 58,000 names hits you like a brick wall. I still remember the emotion. There were families behind those 58,000 names.

My mom talks with a Vietnam Vet from Texas via e-mail. He has terrible pains and also has MS. He was a grunt in Vietnam and was exposed to agent orange when they dumped it on the trees. He goes to the local VFW hospital for treatment daily. If Bush cuts veterans benefits what will he do?

Where do you draw the line on who earned their medals under fishy circumstances? Is it only John Kerry, John McCain, Max Cleland and anyone who runs against Bush that are attacked? If you attack how those men earned their medals and their courage under fire then you attack all Veterans of wars who witnessed atrocities, had limbs blown off, seen friends die, and served their country honorably.

As fighting continues to rage in Iraq and the death toll nears 1000 I am worried about the future of our soldiers. It is not just those that die in war, it is those who come home with PTST and become alcoholics, become homeless, and have to rely on treatment from local VFW hospitals to stay alive. 58,000 is the number that died during combat in Vietnam. Many more have since had their lives ruined and either died of drug overdoses or comitted suicide.

Vietnam was a preemptive war. Vietnam was no threat to the United States. We were told we were attacked at the Gulf of Tonkin. We were told we were fighting to keep the South Vietnamese free from the Communists. We hear almost the same thing in Iraq. We were told that Saddam's WMD program was an iminent threat to the United States and the free world. Since the WMD didn't pan out we now hear that the war was about giving the Iraqis freedom and freeing them from a horrible dictator. They say Iraq is just one step in the never ending war on terror. If we are going to invade countries just to overthrow dictators and give the people freedom where do we go next? Cuba? China? Almost every country in Africa?

Ask yourself, was Iraq worth it? Was it worth it to possibly ruin a generation? Does Bush support the troops?

We should have learned our lesson about pre-emptive wars 30 years ago.

I wrote this pretty quickly so there are probably some typos and grammatical errors in it. I am thinking of submitting it to the local newspaper at my university after I make some revisions. My university has 15,000 students and another 2,000 or so staff. The university paper is read by everybody. On the days it is published you can see everybody reading it around campus. 17,000 people is a lot. Especially since New Mexico is a toss up state. I am probably going to submit it in early October.

I wonder if Anj will let me refer to his brothers in the final article? If he doesn't see this thread I will just PM him later asking for permission.
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joanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
1. That is a very touching post
Thanks so much for sharing your story.

You should definitely send it to your university to have it published.

There is no better authority than hearing from those who have served, or have loved ones who did.

You are wise beyond your years.

Thanks again.
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Cloud Donating Member (380 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Thanks for the kind words
I have done a lot. I have read many things on DU and blogs and other things of the sort. I know more than most my age.

I think it probably won't convince anyone who is a die hard Bush supporter to vote against him but it would definitely convince many people to vote for Kerry who wouldn't have voted otherwise.

My only concern is that it might be a bit too long to print.
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Mad As Hell Donating Member (203 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
2. A beautiful story
Please publish it. And thank you for being so brave, thoughtful and caring.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
4. My dad served in Nam, too...........
he was a highly decorated career USAF officer, an EWO (electronic warfare officer) and master navigator who received only Outstanding and Superior officer effectiveness ratings during his career. He risked his life for a year flying reconnaisance missions out of Thailand. When the Bushistas denigrate Kerry's war record, they are implicitly doing the same thing to my father, and every single other veteran, particularly those who are no longer alive to defend their good names. SHAME ON YOU, GEORGE BUSH!! SHAME ON YOU, BOB DOLE!!

As if this were not enough, it is quite possible that my father's death at an early age (47) of lung cancer was due to exposure to Agent Orange, which was seen and noted on the base where he served (they sure weren't using f---ing machetes to keep the jungle from encroaching on the facility). So he may have been an Agent Orange death, to boot. He served, he was decorated, he retired with an honorable discharge, but gee, maybe all those medals and great reviews were all a fraud. Thank you for enlightening me, George and Bob. You guys have got heart.
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Cloud Donating Member (380 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I wonder what the freeps think of Dole's service?
If I remember correctly he earned his first purple heart when a grenade bounced off a tree. I wonder what Ann "Max Cleland was drunk and dropped a grenade" Coulter thinks about it?

Did the Clinton campaign go after Dole in 96 the same way the Bush campaign is going after Kerry? I seriously doubt they did. If they did then there would be tremendous outcry. Clinton would never hear the end of it from Rush and many others.
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wellstone_democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Thank you for sharing that
I'm a Vietnam Era vet and I'm sickened by the filthy charges against men who went when called, did their jobs and now are forced to wonder if their service mattered at all. In fact any of us can honestly say now that the Republican party believes that only fools enlist or get caught in the draft---after all, even injury in combat is suspect.

Suspect by whom? Those who could not be bothered, had "connections" to keep them out of the military, and those who cheapen their own service with their pandering lies.

I'm so sorry for your loss. I'm sure that his service contributed to his problems and I'm sorry that the care he should have gotten wasn't there for him. But, you can be sure of one thing: he would be so very proud of you. In college, a thoughtful engaged citizen and standing up for him and his fellow soldiers. It is the best memorial there is for anyone.

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left is right Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
6. My ultra-RW coworker while trying to defend
the SBV (liars) mentioned that her husband (who hasn't even tried to look for employment for at least 2 years) was special forces. She ranted on-and-on about her husband coming home and being spit upon. I thought this was an urban legend and I recall that the first such stories started appearing about 7 years after the end of the war. Can anyone here cite a credible first person account--from someone you believe implicitly
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Demonaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. it may have happened but it does not absolve Bush of lying
of being a coward or the hypocrisy of his whole administration
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DieboldMustDie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
7. Have your grandma vote absentee!
;)
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Jokinomx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #7
18. Yes... I forgot to mention that.... every vote counts and is needed...
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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
8. Vietnam vet here
Cloud, your Dad would be proud of you. Not only should you submit this letter to your campus paper, you should send it to local newspapers!
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Trekologer Donating Member (445 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 08:43 PM
Response to Original message
10. Thank You
Thank you for your story.

Your story is like thousands of others by those who served and their families. John Kerry went to Vietnam and saw the horror that the soldiers like your father endured. When he came back he started speaking out against wars like the one in Vietnam so that the things that happened to your father wouldn't happen to another son of the United States. He was attacked for that in the 70s and he's still being attacked for it now. The attacks on him are attacks against all veterans.
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deacon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
11. He and Rove have no respect for war veterans. n/t
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
13. be proud of your dad, cloud
I agree with you about The Wall; I saw the travelling one at the Austin Capitol and I left blubbering.
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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
14. Bush hates the military.
What else would explain why he treats veterans, particularly veterans who are his political opponents, and the currently serving military so bad?
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Its just that he has no respect for them. At all
But, then again, he is a typical conservative. Conservatives don't respect people. They respect money and power. That's it. They don't give a shit about anything else at all.

I don't know where this bullshit about "I like Bush because he respects the military" comes from, but I hear it all the time and it is such a load of shit.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
15. The *dauphin's failure
to complete his own service obligations CLEARLY SHOWS the CONTEMPT he hold for ALL VETERANS. He's of the Übermensch class and wears medals he hasn't EARNED to prove it. (See walt Starr's thread).
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Jokinomx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
17. Thank You Cloud... your story is a very important one. You speak from
Edited on Sun Aug-22-04 10:28 PM by Jokinomx
the heart and I feel it with every word you penned. I hope sharing it here somehow helps with the emotions that you have inside. Have you seen the latest ad by Kerry with John McCain asking * for an apology? If you haven't ... go to

http://www.johnkerry.com/tv/ and click on "Old Tricks".

With that... thank you again for sharing. Only those that live through experiences like yours completely understand. But, by sharing as you did... you give people like me a glimpse.

I salute you .. I salute your Father.

I would like to ask permission to post this on my Families web page. I am trying to educate some of my siblings on this topic. Thanks
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realFedUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
19. Vets are getting used by this administration
I posted this on another thread, but think it's a valid point...

Vets, especially Vietnam Vets, we know that the war
still isn't over for many of you. You've suffered with
knowledge and duty, knowing that it wasted so many
good men, living and dead.

Bush is using you; touching the anger you felt when
soldiers, fresh from combat in Vietnam, came back
and told about their experiences in front of Congress
...atrocities against civilians, soldiers, Vietcong
during war. John Kerry was one who spoke out and it
still burns that your service might have been questioned...
and so you questioned his. I imagine that soldiers from
Iraq will feel similar feelings in years to come.

This anger is tragic...it should have been dealt with
so many years ago...

This administration is just looking for ways for voters
to doubt John Kerry and you are a group being used to
do that. It has probably worked for some who were on the
fence, but what you should take a serious look at is how
this administration has really treated veterans.

from the Kerry/Edwards website:

“George Bush needs to learn a certain four letter word: FACT. It is a fact that he has overextended the military to its thinnest levels in years and forced thousands of soldiers to involuntarily extend their deployments. It is a fact that he threatened to veto the $87 billion supplemental and sent troops into battle without body armor. It is a fact that he has broken his promise to America’s veterans and made it harder for them to access quality health care. George Bush is too busy attacking to get his facts straight and he is out of credibility,” Kerry spokesman Phil Singer said.


Bush Has Not Kept His Promise To Vets
Closing Vet Hospitals: In May 2004, the Administration decided to push for the closure of hospitals in Brecksville, OH; Gulfport, MS; and, Highland Drive, PA. Eight VA hospitals will be partially closed. The Administration is planning partial closures in Knoxville, IA; Canandaigua, NY; Livermore, CA; Montrose, NY; Kerrville, TX; Saginaw, MI; Ft. Wayne, IN; and Butler, PA.

Imposing New Fees On Vets: Bush’s 2005 budget will institute a new annual $250 enrollment fee and an increase in prescription drug co-pays from $7 to $15 for middle-income veterans. In December 2001, Bush more than tripled the prescription co-payments for nonservice-connected veterans from $2 to $7.

Leaving Vets Without Health Care: While Bush said in his speech: “I want to thank Ed Banes for his service in being an effective commander of the VFW,” in fact Ed Banas said about Bush’s budget earlier in the year:

“The President ignored veterans in the State of the Union Address and with today's release of his 2005 budget. It is further evident that veterans are no longer a priority with this administration.”

“This funding package is a disgrace and a sham”

“What the administration is proposing for veterans is a shell game. Veterans are being asked to pay for their own health care to make up for shortages in the budget.”

“This budget indefensibly will not meet the increasing health care needs of our veterans, nor will it lessen the many months they wait for disability benefits.”

Bush's 2005 budget falls more than $2.6 billion short of the amount needed to fully fund quality veterans' health care, according to The Independent Budget, an annual collective assessment by four veterans service organizations of the funding levels and policy changes needed at VA.

Opposing Helping Disabled Vets. Secretary Donald Rumsfeld recommended that Bush veto the defense appropriations bill if it contained a fix to the concurrent receipt problem that penalizes veterans who also receive disability assistance. The concurrent receipt ban stops a veteran who receives disability compensation from also receiving military retirement pay, effectively punishing our disabled vets. Rumsfeld wrote that if the bill, “authorizes concurrent receipt of military retirement pay and veterans’ disability compensation benefits, or expands TRICARE, then I would join other senior advisors to the President in recommending that he veto the bill.”

Bush Claimed Support For Concurrent Receipt: "For more than a century, federal law prohibited disabled veterans from receiving both their military retired pay and their VA disability compensation. Combat injured and severely disabled veterans deserve better. I was proud to be the first president in over 100 years to sign concurrent receipt legislation." -George W. Bush, VFW National Convention

It Is Bush Who Opposed The $87 Billion, Over Vet Funding
Bush Threatened To Veto $87 Billion Supplemental Over Additional Funding For Reservists And Veterans. As part of the $87 billion emergency supplemental appropriations for security and reconstruction in Iraq and Afghanistan in 2003, the Senate passed an amendment that provided an additional $1.3 billion for improved medical benefits for reservists and veterans. OMB Director Josh Bolten wrote to the Congressional Appropriations' Committees, stating, "The Administration strongly opposes these provisions, including Senate provisions that would allocate an additional $1.3 billion for VA medical care and the provision that would expand benefits under the TRICARE Program. ..If this provision is not removed, the President's senior advisors would recommend that he veto the bill." http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,100777,00.html ; BVA legislative bulletin, http://www.bva.org/aut03bulletin/l_update.html ; CQ, 10/20/03>


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UrbScotty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
20. Thank you for sharing this with us. (nt)
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-04 01:12 AM
Response to Original message
21. I have a dream.......................
that, like in "Lord of the Rings: Return of the King", the spirits of all our soldiers dead in Vietnam rise up to do battle against great evil and ensure the return of our true king, John Kerry.
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