Has anyone out there recently read "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich"

[fdr_hst_fan]

by William L. Shirer? If you HAVE read it recently, you'll know what I'm talking about; if it's been YEARS since you've read it, I suggest you re-read it; if you've NEVER read it before, pick up a copy and start reading it NOW! It will explain not only what's BEEN happening in this country under SMIRK, but what we'll face if he STEALS the NEXT election as well! Trust me, everything will become crystal clear after the first eight chapters. They will cover what's been going on since 9/11; the remaining chapters will elaborate on what will come in the next four years, IF he's re-selected!
If you don't believe me, that's OK, you don't have to-my feelings won't be hurt; these warnings have been ignored before, with near-fatal consequences for the world. But you may be sorry later, when it will be TOO LATE! Remember, Smirk's grandfather and great-grandfather were Nazi sympathizers, so his actions should come as no surprise, IF you read the book!

[JuniperLea]

1. doomed to repeat history?

i'll re-read.

watched 'the green berets' this past weekend and was reminded of all the propaganda i saw during the vietnam war. it happened during wwII as well. and now... jeez! we never learn!

[volosong]

33. I READ IT & THAT IS WHY I WROTE THE FOLLOWING ARTICLE

I invite anyone to write similar letters to the news media. You are welcome to use any or all of my format.

http://congress.org/congressorg/dbq/media/

SMEARGATE STEALING ELECTION 2004

The first characteristic of any dictatorship is subversion of the mass media followed by infringement of civil rights. Anyone scrutinizing performance of the news media will readily smell that there is something "rotten in Denmark." But lo and behold, out of the ashes of the once Golden Age of Journalism, an anemic albatross rather than a phoenix has risen.

Empowered yet impotent, rabbity reporters repeatedly fail to challenge and expose the duplicities of ALL our political leaders. When Bush split his crotch on Kerry’’s war record, no one seemed to notice. An objective examination of the Bush blabbers shows 3 times more flips than Kerry, plus a long list of broken promises and policy flops costing American lives and wasting billions of dollars.

The media perpetuate the flip flop myths, and conveniently forget that while Kerry was fighting, George aWol Bush was hiding. They also vastly under report the tens of thousands flocking to the Kerry-Edwards banner, while Bush hides ensconced with "invited guests."

Veterans unable to deal with Kerry's war record are examples of how the system has failed these heroes who clearly are unable to overcome their emotional scars. Their support of Bush, a cowardly double-talker, who has consistently failed to support them, is a circular firing squad of patriots putting emotion before good sense.

I submit that there is another candidate in this race, the media, who are in fact running as a “parasitic appendage” kissing the Bush behind in the manner of John McCain. Failure of a majority of the media to condemn Bush's unprecedented campaign of character assassination and negativity is shameful.

I am a veteran and a gun owner. What is notable is not my PhD and medical degree, but the fact that I am old enough to remember when reporters and news services were a class act: They were aggressive, incisive, and fair instead of apologetic court jesters and palace eunuchs.

[tom_paine]

34. "Court Jesters and Palace Eunuchs"

What an apt phrase to describe the Imperial Pravda Press Corpse!

[fdr_hst_fan]

39. AMEN, brother!

And I'd like to thank ALL of the DU'ers who responded-THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH!

:grouphug:

[Catfight]

42. Excellent piece of work volosong! Well said.

[skygazer]

2. I've read it in the past

and know exactly what you're talking about. I was recently reading another book called "The Devil's Disciples" about the rise of the Nazi party and Hitler's chief followers and their roles in it all. The story of the rise of the Third Reich is chillingly similar to much of what is going on today here.

[acmavm]

3. I've read it twice, the first time when I was 12, the second about 15

years ago. And having read it, I must say that some of the stuff that this bunch of thugs and criminals do just makes my hair stand on edge. It is absolutely, right-down-the-line exactly how the Nazis took over Germany. The lies about 'the enemy', the propaganda machine, the feeling of a right to rule the world, and the amazing greed.

Yep, you're absolutely correct on this one.

[jonnyblitz]

4. that is a loooong book. I read it about 10 years ago...

not sure if i want to read it again with the stack of books I haven't even read once sitting next to me..

[CanIgonow]

5. I have read that classic at least twenty times if not more.Each time

I come away impressed with Shirer's enormous ability to cut through the Nazis' phony arguments and get to the roots of their evil nature.His grasp of history,people and the countries involved was amazing.

I am very proud that William Shirer lived among us to warn us about our own home grown Fuehrer Wannabes.We will miss him when we need a voice as wise as William Shirer's was.

[indepat]

12. And lucky me: I just found a copy of Shirer's "End of a Berlin Diary":

Will re-read "The Rise and Fall..."

[fdr_hst_fan]

40. "End of a Berlin Diaray"

also very good book!

[Cleita]

6. I not only read it when it first came out in the sixties, I

picked it up and reread it a year ago and I am rereading it again. There is so much in there that so like what is happening now, that it's hard not to keep making comparisons. Also, what is happening today is evolving like it did back then into a situation that gets worse and worse. According to Shirer though, Hitler and the Nazis could have been stopped early in the regime if people had stood up to them and the other European nations had not given him a chance to invade Austria, Czechoslavakia and Poland. Letting them commit these acts of aggression made them stronger and too hard to remove before the bloodbath that followed.

[fdr_hst_fan]

41. I think Shirer had a good point:

if more people, especially those in high government places, had given serious attention to Hitler and "Mein Kampf", a lot of whate later occurred might not have. He even made that point in his book, where he was describing Hitler's thought processes and the roots of the Third Reich. No other would-be dictator ever put into writing exactly what he was going to do and how he was going to do it.

[NervousRex]

7. Excellent book.

A masterwork for sure. Has been sitting next to the bed for years. Sad thing is how it has become more appropriate to current times...especially the first few chapters(and hopefully not the last few...). I love what Shirer has to say about Martin Luther's contribution to the authoritarian mindset having grown up subjected to that particular brand of insanity.

[jimshoes]

8. I was hoping to see a good book recommendation

here concerning the parallels between Nazi Germany and the * regime. Is there an on-line version or would it be just as easy to buy the thing? Thanx in advance.

[NervousRex]

9. Buy it...or

get it from the library...It's 3" thick printed on cigarette paper...massive read.

[DWolper]

10. As a matter of fact...

One of the great books of our time.

I worked closely with William Shirer, the author of TR&FTR, in the making of a film of the same title in 1967. My company (with lots of help from MGM), produced the documentary. I wish I could tell you to see it. However, it is no longer in print in the states. I understand a DVD is in the works. It was nominated for an Emmy in the documentary category and frankly, I am as proud of that as anything I have done. Jack Kaufman produced and directed the film for DLWP and it really was powerful in its time; though, it may seem a bit dated today. It shows up, I am told, now and then on the History Channel.

The book is a must-read by anyone wanting an understanding of Nazi Germany. That book is still the standard by which books about the Third Reich are measured. If you have an interest in that nightmare - read this book. If you want an abbreviated and visual version, hopefully you can see our film.

[timtom]

14. DWolper???

DAVID Wolper???

[Kathy in Cambridge]

That's what I want to know too!

:wow:

[DWolper]

18. Nathan

Friend or foe? If you are a friend of David Wolper - yes. If you can't stand that old man's body of work - different guy.

Yes, I am David Wolper. Ever since I moved close to family I have learned the computer and stay in touch with old friends, etc. I tell people my favorite thing is to communicate, in instant fashion, in these political forums. It is all still so amazing to me. I've seen a lot since 1928!

Now, I am guessing you are not THE Nathan Hale. If so, that's more amazing than these computer boxes! Have a good night.

[WillyT]

23. Welcome To DU DWolper !!!

Glad to have you aboard!!!

:toast::bounce::toast:

I get a kick out of 'Devils Brigade', and watch it every time it comes on. 'Willy Wonka' is a classic too, but I want to thank you for making 'Imagine: John Lennon'. That was a wonderful film, and it touched my heart very much. Peace. And again... thanks.

:hi:

BTW - When 'Rise and Fall' comes out on DVD, I'm runnin to the store!

[timtom]

31. Definitely a friend.

And, yes, I am The Nathan Hale. Alright! I'm not! When I was a little boy, my mommy would pull me on a sled around the city streets past a statue of Nathan Hale. I've always admired the symbol of Nathan Hale since that time.

And good night to you, sir.

[thebigidea]

36. Neat... you've produced some terrific stuff, thanks for dropping in!

(Insert desperate half-serious plea for employment here.)

Shirer-wise, I'd also suggest DUers pick up a copy of Shirer's diaries of life in Berlin - THE NIGHTMARE YEARS. I read and reread it around 2002 and couldn't believe the awful similarities.

[kodi]

24. my first thought too. hello there, mr wolper.

i must have read the book a dozen times, and yes, shirer is an amzing writer. the work is so well written and he deals with things so clearly and objectively that it's hard to imagine that the nationalist socialists were able to do what they did.

and there are distinct parallels with america today. one bad recession/depression and the fascism that has always lurked at our door might well devour us.

there is no doubt that america has a mean streak fascist tendencies

[Journeyman]

11. Superficial history scripted by a journalist. . .

better to read serious historical treatments and gain a more useful, in-depth knowledge. Immerse yourself in the works of Arendt, Carr, Ebenstein or Orlow, then report what you know and how it relates to today.

[sampsonblk]

26. Shirer provided valuable insight

He was there. I am all for academic works related to the Nazis. But Shirer saw that stuff as it happened.

[Journeyman]

28. Read Arendt. . .

and you'll know the difference between facile observations and insightful analysis. Shirer is riddled with error and many of his conclusions have long been discounted. But read and believe what you want . . .

[sampsonblk]

35. I'll Do That

Always good to hear of a book I can add to my collection. Thanks

[Tansy_Gold]

45. May I also suggest

some source documents:

"Diary of a Man in Despair" by Friedrich Percyval Reck-Malleczewen.
Translated by Paul Rubens and reprinted as recently as the late 90s. Malleczewen was a Bavarian nobleman -- an elitist, a traditionalist, one would almost say a true conservative! -- who despised Hitler and the Nazis. His diary is not a reporter's diary but a human being's diary. It covers the period from May 1936 to October 1944, when he was arrested. He was executed by the Nazis at Dachau in February 1945.


and

"Nazi Culture: Intellectual, Cultural, and Social Life in the Third Reich," by George L. Mosse. Mosse was a German Jew who escaped at quite literally the last minute and went on to become a history professor and scholar of the Hitler era. "Nazi Culture" is a collection of original writings and artwork from the Nazi machine, with commentary by Mosse. I believe the copyright is 1966, so I'm not sure how available it is outside a college or large public library.

[coalition_unwilling]

13. An excellent book

I wrote my senior thesis on one aspect of the Nazi's implementation of the Final Solution, so can also recommend a couple other titles to suppelement Shirer's work:

Dietrich Bracher's "The Nazi Seizure of Power" (published originally in German as Die Nationalsocialismus (sp?) Machtergreifung) is good on the Nazi's consolidation of power.

Gordon Craig's "Germany: 1871-1945" provides an understanding of Germany from the Franco-Prussian War forward and sets the Nazis in a larger tradition of Prussian nationalism and German militarism.

Alan Bullock's "Hitler" is one of the standard biographies and explores in depth Hitler's pre-1933 years.

Finally, Daniel Goldhagen's "Hitler's Willing Executioners" examines in detail the level of knowlege of the Final Solution held by the German people and lays to rest the notion that the German people simply didn't know what was going on.

Happy reading--paranoia will destroy ya!

[Disturbed]

17. Rove/Goering

You can bet Rove studied Goering closely.

[Yupster]

22. Do you mean Goebbels?

Rove - Goering? I don't get the connection.
Help me out.

[coalition_unwilling]

32. Rove may know of Goebbels

But I doubt he studied Goebbels very closely. Rove doesn't strike me as being very smart; his "message control" has really slipped in the past 12 months.

As for Goering-Rove, I suspect it's actually Air Force General Richard Myers (Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff) who has studied Goering's use of "terror bombing" tactics in the Battle of Britain and invasion of Poland. After all, the U.S.A.F. now makes a fetish of bombing civilian locales from altitudes > 5,000 feet.

[bobbieinok]

15. find this book boring, maybe because I've read too much about Nazis

I discovered his Berlin Diary when I was in jr or sr hi-school and was entranced.

Reading it gives you a 'you are there' feeling as he writes abt Goebbels' latest press conference, etc

Alan Bullock's Hitler: A Study in Tyranny is great.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

16. I just read it again while I was unemployed

it's quite a book, and if you don't know where Karl Rove gets his tactics, this book outlines it perfectly.

[AngryOldDem]

19. Should Be Required Reading

...my question: What will be our equivalent of the Reichstag Fire?

[stavka]

21. ANSWER

Iraq did it....both the Riechstag fire and the World Trade Center....

[stavka]

20. Might I really really really recommend

"The Third Reich: A New History" by by Michael Burleigh? - Amazon is now selling the trade paper back for $13.00

It's a lot less about battles, and kings, or dates(to use a phrase a history professor I had loved to banter about) and more about the cultural and political phenomena - was also written recently and dispenses with some of the (minor) errors and political rah rah rah that WS Rise/Fall is riddled with.

New is History is Long - but a great book.....

(I'll also Plug Steve Coll's "Ghost Wars" in this same post - history of US policy in Afghanistan leading up to OBL and September 10th)

[fdr_hst_fan]

38. Have read it-no offense, but didn't think much of it-

thought it rather slow; glad to have your input, though-THANK YOU for responding!

:pals:

[sampsonblk]

25. Ha! I am up late re-reading it right now!

Excellent book!

[Doctor_J]

27. I am reading it now.

And you are correct that the beginnings of each Reich were pretty similar. One advantage that Hitler had was that Germany was depressed in the 20's so his "populist" rants touched a chord with the hoi polloi. *, OTOH, inherited a splendid economy and caused the recession himself.

As for the next few years, there is one stark difference, IMO. You had Chamberlain and others who believed that if they gave Sueterland to Hitler, that he would stop. IOW, some other, respected leaders basically signed off on the overthrow of CZ and AUT before that. Twisted as it was, Hitler was acting with the (at least tacit) approval of some other countries.

I think the disdain for what * is doing in Iraq is nearly unanimous. I also believe that if he is still in office next year, and takes one more step - into Iran or Syria or what have you, that we're going to be in deep do-do, to quote Bush The Not Quite As Dumb. I don't think * will be given as much slack as Hitler was given before the rest of the civilized world jerks the leash, and hard.

[FDRrocks]

29. I'm about to crest page 1000

And I agree, it is very enlightening, and very well written.

High ly reccomend it.

[Fatima]

30. Just dragged my copy out of the box

where my old paperbacks are kept. It's a thick one, and I'll give it another read. Thanx for the suggestion.

Another suggestion for one and all is Howard Zinn's A People's History of the United States and Seven Deadly Spins by Mickey Z. Both found on Amazon.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

37. There are some parallels.

Both Hitler and Bush built their success on fear, apathy, and "patriotism". Both used common enemies. The "left", which Hitler went after before he got to the other enemy, the Jews. Now we have the common enemies of the "left" and the Muslims.

Notice how the rightwingers often accuse the left of being "sympathetic" to the bogeyman "terrorists" because we decry the goings on in Iraq and the alleged "war on terror". And, look at how virtually all the Muslims are being lumped together as "threats".

Right now, as I see it, about 1/3 of the nation is quite ready for a fascist state of "security", "pride", "patriotism" and fear. About 1/3 would be apathetic and accepting of whatever comes along as long as it doesn't interfere with their shopping. That leaves the rest of us.

Let's hope we do better than the Germans.

[FDRLincoln]

43. good intro

Shirer is a good introduction, but as someone else upthread pointed out, a lot of the more recent research has thrown many of his conclusions into doubt or outright "this isn't true" status. Read it, but understand that not everything he says is exactly right. If you want to get further into the history of the 3rd Reich, check out works by Joachim Fest, Ian Kershaw, and other historians. Amazon is a good place to explore.

[fdr_hst_fan]

47. Have been studying this subject

for almost 40 years-am aware of those other authers, have even read them. Didn't really see where they said too much differen from Shirer. Plus, Shirer was THERE; some (or most) of those authors WEREN'T.

[Cronus Protagonist]

44. Fascism: We Report You Decide

http://cronus.com/fascism

[UpsideDownFlag]

46. i read it for a poli sci class last semester.

eery.