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samplegirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 10:03 PM
Original message
Would somebody please ask?? How cutting overtime helps...
the adverage working american
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CHIMO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 10:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. Forces China
And India and others to implement the same rules.
Who said that it was to help the "average". Unless it helps the average CEO.
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
2. Helps shrubs CEO buddies a lot!
You can cut staff, have those remaining all be "learned professionals", work 'em 60-80 hours a week, and it doesn't cost any more than if they worked 40 hrs. What a deal!!!

I think this one's going to bite shrub in the "tender part of his anatomy" if companies start to implement it before Nov.
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
3. It helps corporations cut labor costs.
It hurts many working Americans; and by cutting their pay, it hurts the economy. But the corporations only look at their own bottom lines, not at overall effects on the economy. And as long as Americans don't catch on to the game, they get hurt while their "representatives" play footsie with the corporations.
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the Kelly Gang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
4. the rich get richer....has to be good for everyone (not)
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
5. IT DOESN'T
IT HURTS AMERICA .

just like everything else that has come out of bush's admin
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splat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
6. there is one good part
It helps lower income fast-food managers, who didn't have to be paid overtime wages before because their title was "manager," even though they didn't make much.
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. they will just give them a raise t the 23K cut off amount
Edited on Mon Aug-23-04 10:34 PM by mitchtv
and Voila! no OT. work everyone else three 12 hour days ,and no full time employees with nasty things like vacations and health benefits, the republican future for 'Murka.
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MrPrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
8. One really stupid part...
It has been variously est. that up to 6 million Americans, if not more, will lose money because of this.

Less 'hot money' in the system can't do much for already weak consumer expectations/demands in the short term, let alone, the long term incentives of 'advancement'.

(Work harder for the next two years to get the same money I got yesterday?)

These guys really really hate people...
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CaTeacher Donating Member (983 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. My sister who is a glorified receptionist was regularly
working 12 hour days with no overtime. Her salary is going to go up 10-15 K per year!!!

She is absolutely stoked!!! But don't worry--she will not vote for Bush.

My aunt works in retail--and is only a part-time employee (around 30 hours per week). But--once again her boss routinely overworks her--makes her put in those 10-12 hour shifts and she has been getting no overtime pay. She is going to make approximately an addition 6K per year. My aunt is pretty happy too!! This may be a worry--my aunt is a swing voter who is easily influenced. And to make things even worse--she lives in Ohio.

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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
9. it might just invigorate a union movement
among the exploited. Union shops have contracts that deal with OT.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
10. It doesn't help the worker. It helps the employer.
In the long run though it will come back to bite them with surly and unproductive workers.
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gmoney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
11. Might help people go home after the 40th hour
I hope people can find the guts to walk out after the 40th hour. "You want me to stay a few more hours this week. Afraid I can't do that without a raise."

Maybe there should be a modified "general strike" where workers who are being denied overtime at hour #40 in a specified week. Whether it's Wednesday at 4:00, or Friday at noon... could send a message. (Or create millions of "new" jobs when all those lousy ungrateful bastards get canned for walking out early... doh!)
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cap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
13. if your boss can work you overtime without premium pay
or put you on salary, how can you hold that second job?
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samplegirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I have'nt heard anyone yet raise this question
When conservattives say its good! Good answers from everyone
dems need to debate this strongly.
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Zing Zing Zingbah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
15. Oh, but that is not the important question to ask.
Who cares about helping the average American worker? The important question is "Will cutting over time help greedy business men make even more money?"
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CHIMO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. John Browns Body...eom
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haele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
16. It doesn't - it helps businesses...
Supposedly, this new law "clarifies" the non-exempt categories of work that are entitled by law to get overtime. And of course, it recategorized many jobs, moving most engineering or development type work into management - because as we all know, people who are skilled labor or can be considered consultants can "manage" themselves. And as we working stiffs know very well, management is considered an exempt position, even if it is paid at an hourly rate for budget tracking on contracts. Oh, yeah - the new law is supposed to require that part time and temporary people be paid overtime as long as they're being paid hourly, no matter what their work status is. That's a plus for the WalMart closing cashiers that are locked in over 8 hours - however, it does nothing for skilled labor, which most of the so-called "middle class" is composed of.

Funny thing is, from what I've seen of labor laws existing prior to this(posted in every worksite by law in CA)- it was pretty clear who could be considered exempt and who could be considered non-exempt in terms of pay status. The other interesting consideration with these new rules is that it affects government work and "wage determined" contracts - long a sore spot to bottom-liner CEO's because most of them don't want to pay prevailing wages, especially in a tight job market when there are hundreds of desperate people applying for any one job - especially the mid-level and upper level skilled labor.
Before the economy tanked, a company would generally hire, say, a "Production Engineer" - a skilled, trained (college level), experienced worker; a professional - a starting pay of $25 an hour to go out and work/manage site jobs on a tightly budgeted series of projects over the life-cycle of a three to five year contract- where s/he could easily find her/himself earning between $50 - $90K a year due to the many 60-80 hour weeks that Engineer will have to actually work, lugging tools and test equipment in a possibly dangerous environment during those long stretches of hours as well as the laptop.
I've worked those hours before. One tires, one can make mistakes and/or get injured if they go on too long. One of the benefits of working those hours was the overtime, which not only acted as a "reward" for my sweat, blood, tears, and lack of family time, but as a check to my employer - they would always have to balance their budget and my working hours, and it would really, really have to be worth it to them to casually mismanage or underbid a contract so as to require me to work 7 days a week, 10 - 12 hours a day for the two or three months on site to get the job done.

Well, now - this law indicates that this skilled worker is to be treated the same as the marketing assistant who sits in his office doing an average of 40 hours a week with an occasional 5 or 6 hours schmoozing clients. So that Engineer - as well as the couple "Master Tradespersons" who work alongside him or her to get the job done will find themselves exempt - and their individual 540 man-hours of work over say 9 weeks will only net them the pay of 360 man-hours.
Maybe if they're lucky, they'll get paid comp time off...but I doubt any company will give a mid-level hourly employee 180 hours paid time off for any reason.

IMO, this is basically a way of getting rid of the fair wage practice levels for work as put out by the GSA - and probably a way of breaking the backs of those "wasteful" government employees that do menial tasks like going out to sites to monitor hazardous waste, survey air quality, install upgrades and field changes as well as new equipment.
To the investment class, labor is labor, no matter if it's skilled or general, no matter if you had to have years of schooling and 10 - 20 years experience in the field to qualify for requirements of the position. You've still been working with your hands, so it's not the same as having to go to a famous University and getting a 6-year Masters Degree in Business Administration.

Sorry the bitterness shows, but we've got a bunch o' bean counting weenies in our management hierarchy now because the current district head isn't comfortable with people that tell him the truth. So he gets bean counters to lay people off and hire new people in at lower pay than usual, and wonders why the work isn't getting done as well or is as profitable as it used to be.

In the technical field, short term gains by playing games with hiring, payroll and regular expenditures usually means long term losses. You've got to spend money to make money, and I've long wondered what MBA's have been learning since the mid-80's, because they don't seem to understand the quality that a good, motivated workforce brings to a company...

Haele
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