Is the Iron Cross making a comeback???

[MrChupon]

I can't tell you how many people I've seen in the past six months with this logo on their shirt, hat, tattooed to them.. on their car...Bikers especially.

I guess my question is.. when did this become fashionable?

Doesn't the Iron Cross stand for Nazi Germany? Are these people identifying with Nazis? Is there some alternate meaning for this symbol that I am missing out on?

Has anyone else noticed the a lot of Iron Crosses about lately or is it just my paranoid Jewish brain? I'm not particularly offended, just intrigued with the phenomenon.

[MadProphetMargin]

1. The Iron Cross pre-dates Nazism. It was used as a military decoration

during WWI, and (I am pretty sure) as early as Bismark.

[MrChupon]

2. But hasn't it been co-opted?

I mean, the Swastika is a centuries-old symbol for good luck, but I don't know of any reasonable people who would get it tattooed to their body in the 21st century.

[MadProphetMargin]

5. Absolutely. Maybe it's a subconscious reflex by republicans?

After all, this administration is fascist in all but name, and working class people who vote for the GOP aren't exactly known for being mensa material.

Being a millwright, I constantly boggle at the number of people I work with that vote for what is so obviously against their own self-interest.

Our apprentice said that he was going to vote for Bush, because he didn't want to pay more income tax. I felt like shaking the kid and screaming, "YOU MAKE $9/HOUR! YOU DON'T PAYINCOME TAX!".

I didn't have the heart to tell him that HE is paying more in taxes (gas, etc) now, because some rich pukes got a break.

[Cogito ergo doleo]

19. Who's his accountant?

Even someone making $9.00 an hour pays income tax and SS. If he was an independent contractor with no deductions he'd be paying upwards of 25% to 30% of his income in Social Security. So, after taxes, that would put him in the poverty margin.

[Vladimir]

3. Yes indeed...

http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-medals/iron_cross.htm

Iron Cross.
Originally created in 1813 by King Fredrick III during Prussia's period of 'blood and iron' - their struggle for survival against Napoleon.

It was revived for the 1914-18 war
all 1914/18 medals have the central letter "W" for Wilhelm II

Hitler (who had been awarded the Iron Cross 2nd Class in WW1) reintroduced it in WW2
All 1939/45 medals have the swastika in the central position.

In 1957 the banned "nazi" Iron Crosses were re-issued in a de-nazified version.

[ze_dscherman]

14. The Iron Cross was first used 1813

It was the highest decoration given for courage in the Napoleonic wars. It was the first medal given regardless of military rank, there even was a version for civilians. It was used again in the 1870/71 war against France. In WWI, it's use became inflationary, about 5 Million Iron Crosses (II. class) were awarded. My grandfather got one in WWI. It also was a very common decoration during WWII (about 2.3 Million awarded, plus 300.000 Class I).

The current German military does not award medals of honor any more. However, the Iron Cross as symbol of German military (especially symbolizing love of freedom, chivalry, and courage) appears on the insignia of German troops.

Information from German Wikipedia http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eisernes_Kreuz

It's not Nazi at all.

[Howardx]

21. imperial germany used the iron cross

n/t

[Enraged_Ape]

4. Yes, I've seen a lot of these, but all white on a black background

Call me paranoid, but I really think this is either intentionally or subconsciously a "Christian Identity" symbol--basically a "white power" cross. It perfectly blends the twisted Christian Identity ideas of white supremacy, Jesus, and warmed-over Germanic Euro-Israelism and anti-Semitism.

For more information, Google "Christian Identity Movement".

[Kellanved]

6. Well

It was originally the crest of the German Knight Order (14. century), later it was the national symbol of Prussia and the Elector's family and featured in the Prussian flag.

The cross as decoration was introduced for veterans of the Napoleon wars. It continued as highest decoration in Prussia and the German Empire. It was meant to represent Love for Freedom, Chivalry and Gallantry.


The decoration was not used during the Weimar republic; the Nazis reintroduced it in four different classes and changed the design to include a swastika. It was a central images in the hero-worshiping and other Nazi-propaganda.


Post 1945 the Iron Cross is the symbol for all three German army branches. It is no longer awarded as decoration, but several other decorations feature the design. The 1939-45 design is banned (in Germany); presenting it in public is an offense.

Anyway, the symbol is often used by extreme rightist groups. While it is not technically a Nazi symbol, it is certainly a symbol associated with German militarism.
As Prussia's liberal side and accomplishments are largely forgotten, I doubt that there is a "good" explanation for people wearing it.

[Kenneth ken]

7. West Coast Choppers

is a motorcycle company out of California. They custom-build choppers, and are the hot "brand" - they use the Iron Cross as their logo. In that sense it is similar to the wing emblem that Harely-Davidson uses.

I don't know if they have any Nazi or racist background, but they are the reason you are seeing that emblem so much lately, especially among the biker set.

[Nostradammit]

8. It might have to do w/ West Coast Choppers -

For some unknown, unfathomable reason, this outfit's logo has become tré chic lately.

Maybe?

:shrug:

[Enraged_Ape]

9. Just a few of the many products you can buy with the White Iron Cross!

http://store1.yimg.com/I/msdirect_1806_11654158

Most of the products I've seen have the West Coast Choppers logo, and it seems I've been seeing them EVERYWHERE.

[muriel_volestrangler]

10. Many would consider the shape alone to just be a Maltese Cross

and only when it has the specific 'outlining' style is it an 'iron cross'. Having said that, the West Coast Choppers site does describe it as an 'Iron Cross', so that's definitely their intention.

Strictly speaking a Maltese Cross does look slightly different, but, for instance, I'd have described those handbags as having a Maltese Cross.

[Enraged_Ape]

11. I've always heard the two terms used interchangeably

But I would refer to them more as "Christian Identity White Power Crosses". I think that's a good catch-all description.

[Quahog]

16. Don't give WCC too much credit

If Jesse James knows what the hell the historical context of the iron cross is, I'll eat the seat off my Honda Valkyrie. He's an occasionally clever designer, a savvy businessman and arguably an unconscionable opportunist, but he is definitely NOT an historian. He probably couldn't even tell you what the Holocaust was.

They picked the iron cross because it looks TOUGH and SCARY... like their bikes aren't, because they're constantly falling apart.

Give it a couple of years and it will go away.

[ET Awful]

12. West Coast Choppers, Independent Skateboard Trucks, and

several other companies have used that cross or iterations thereof in their logos for years.

It's always been there, the only difference is they now televise the logos more which draws more attention to it.

[Nimrod]

15. Indeed

Bikers have been wearing that one since I was knee high to a grasshopper (and before). It's just supposed to look tough.

Not everything is racism. It would be possible to consider the American flag and the Holy Bible racist symbols if you put half a mind to it. Germany is identified with Nazism even though that was only one portion of their history. Slavery was one portion of OUR history.

Racism is a big problem, but I believe the first step to effectively combating it is to be able to see where it is and where it isn't.

[James T. Kirk]

13. The German government is widely using the cross symbol.

Check it out:



http://www.bundeswehr.de/

[Wonk]

17. This was widely discussed in the blogosphere back in Feb 04

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:S-QHpdMoR9QJ:www.fritzliess.com/movabletype/archives/001467.html+Jesse+James+%22Iron+Cross%22+Nazi+Semitic&hl=en

Here's a google cache of a page with various comments and links to other bloggers and their comments, for those interested in reading more about it.

My personal opinion is that JJ & WCC really just want to make a quick buck, and don't care who they offend in the process. The more controversy the better, as long as it increases brand recognition.

[BiggJawn]

18. Seen a lot of it also. Mostly amongst Rednecks.

I'm amused at all the crackers I see wearing "WCC" stuff and Poppa 'Roid Smurf's Orange County logo who hardly can afford a pot to piss in, much less a $90,000 motorcycle...Sort of like a troglodyte who has a Huffy with the handlebars in the "DWI Position" with a collection of greasy Harley T-shirts...What can you expect from somebody who thinks Bush would be a great drinkin' buddy?

40 years ago, You could find 1914 Eisernkreuzes everywhere. they called them "Surfer's Crosses" back then. The jewelry store up the street from me sold them. You could get red, green, white, and yes, black enamel, as well as original 1914 crosses.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

20. Not lately. People have been using them for years.

I have one somewhere, along with a Red Star. I've collected a few of those old symbols and badges. Subvert the image.

[GregW]

22. I've seen a lot of these iron crosses lately ...

[JohnKleeb]

23. its not a Nazi thing

Its a Prussian medal that dates from Fredrick the Great's time I beleive. Don't be offended honestly, I understand that you might be though, for the longest time I thought it was a Nazi decloration.