What man can stand, if the women say "No!"?

[Bruce McAuley]

I contend all that men accomplish is with the consent of their women.
Even George Bush could not stand without the support of the women around him, starting with his wife and his mother and extending outward to all the female secreteries in all the departments under him.
"Behind every successful man stands a woman" is as true today as ever. Is then the inverse true?
No sex.
No home cooked meals.
Nobody to pick the wardrobe or warm the bed or give helpful advice.
As Red Green says, "Quondo omnia flunkus moritati" or when all else fails, play dead!
What man can stand?
:hi:

Bruce

[rene moon]

1. That's good and all

but in my view, the man can play with Rosie and her five sisters and cook his own meals!

I bet poor Georgie even couldnt do that though! :)

[htuttle]

2. Look up the play 'Lysistrata'

Written by Aristophanes, it describes a situation where all the women in Greece withhold sex until the men stop fighting wars.

Great play, and has been redone a number of times recently.
Lysistrata Project
http://www.pecosdesign.com/lys/about.html

[Tsiyu]

3. Uh, maybe In your world

It hasn't been that black and white in mine.

But we each decide how others will treat us. If we accept being treated poorly, we will continue to be treated poorly. If we reject this treatment, and remove ourselves from those who treat us badly, we make an important choice. This is true for all men and women.

[jdj]

6. If we reject this treatment...

our children starve.

Women have always and will continue to do the best they can under the circumstances.

Women's innate instinct is to protect their offspring from harm, and unfortunately, men's innate instinct which kicks in around 12 with testosterone is to bond with other men.

No woman with a hungry child can take on the "band of brothers". She will do whatever it takes to keep that child alive and free from harm. (Discounting abusive mothers, of course).

A story from my own family tree. My grandmother, got a divorce in the 30's (for which she was ex-communicated, she converted to Baptist) because her husband was beating the living hell out of her (imminent death was about the only reason poor women got divorces back then). She had two sons to raise, and they were dirt poor, living literally hand to mouth (this was in the Bronx). One day she had NO money, and her kids had had no food at all that day, and she was about at the breaking point. Then she realized she had some crepe paper, and she sat down and folded the crepe paper into roses, and went door to door selling them. She eventually made a whole dollar, with which she bought saltines and mustard so that her kids would not go hungry that day.

This is a woman who "rejected this treatment" but this is the real story of what happened, not some pie in the sky idealism.

[Tsiyu]

8. "If we reject this treatment our children starve"

As I said, it's not so black and white. I have lived worse than your story and I can tell you that the most dangerous times in my life (and my children's) were those times that I chose to leave an abusive spouse.

You don't want to get me started.

But I did choose to pair up with those cretins. Society as a whole must change, this is true, and that involves all people making positive choices. But personal responsibility is key to the larger goal.

And I have lived on beans and rice. And hope and tears.

And I have grown stronger, but I don't believe the men involved became any more enlightened.

[Bruce McAuley]

9. Their best is whatever it takes, and humanity has survived as a result.

I keep thinking of "The Color Purple". I see that the survival of the species is a result of the work of the women, yet history talks mainly of men(HIS-story after all).
Obviously threats work to force the compliance of the women, witness Muslim societies.
Is more education of women the answer? How about guarantees of housing, food and security for all women and children?

Bruce

[Tsiyu]

12. The Color Purple

one of my favorite movies. But not a scenario most women would choose to live.

In places where AIDS and prostitution are rampant, where little girls and boys are bought and sold like baubles, where millions starve and become victims of war and torture and genocide, female prerogative seems to have very little impact.

[Joylaughter]

4. Provocative

I used to think that women drive men to great accomplishments of to ruin depending on how they interact with their men. Now I am divorced and not in any relationship. I am getting more done than ever before. Society has distorted the value of sexuality. Men feel they need sex more than they really do, that they aren't real men if they aren't getting laid. Men are valued by how much sexiness they can buy. Their whole self worth is based on their ability to attract mates. That is a sociological bullshit position and as long as the oversexualisation of soicety continues men will be slaves to it.

[HEyHEY]

5. Many can

REgardless of what this unacceptable and bullshit stereo type says, men are not all a bunch of sex-crazed perverts that can't live their lives without getting laid every two mintues.

[Book Lover]

7. Um, where are the gay men in your picture?

May I also add that my spouse can pick his own clothes just fine, thank you. I mean, thanks for the compliment, I guess, but if we take your arguement further, it satnds that if a man fails, it's not his fault, but of the women who failed to stand behind him. And that ain't Jake.

[Bruce McAuley]

10. Gay men would be more sensitive, I think.

Of all the gay men I've known, I believe not even they would WANT to stand if the women said NO.
Of course men can fail even though the women behind them are competent, happens all the time.
A man with NO woman will likely end up in a little dead end somewhere, though. I'm thinking of Howard Hughes here.

Bruce

[Book Lover]

11. I simply cannot agree

"A man with NO woman will likely end up in a little dead end somewhere, though"

Again, that puts the blame for failure on the woman, not the man. And to that, I say, "Bullshit!"

[Bruce McAuley]

14. Oh No. A man has only himself to blame if he doesn't get it...

Maybe some mothers will lament their sons ending up in a dead end, but they at least got him up and out in the world. What he does with it is HIS fault.
Behind every successful man is a woman. If the man is gay it better be his secretery or his mother or maybe his gay partner who adopts the function of the feminine advisor, I guess.

Bruce

[billyskank]

13. Since I live alone

and nobody but me cooks my meals, sorts my clothes (and I certainly get no sex), I guess I could claim to stand about as alone as I could do.

I agree with your point that bad men probably can mostly only survive with the consent of their women companions. However, has it occurred to you that women can be just as bad as their men? Why else would they approve of their men's actions? I do not like this idea that women are moral merely as a result of possessing ovaries.

[Tsiyu]

15. Once again we're to the nature/nurture

Which gets confusing to me because on the one side, the papa's rights groups claim they are as fine a group of parents as their ex-wives. They claim there is "no difference in ability to nurture, guide and support the needs of their children," or to "be domestic." Sounds good to me...

Then there are the guys who claim that nature has made them "different" and they cannot be held responsible for lacking communication skills, nurturing skills, etc. They claim that they "always" mentally undress women due to nature, as just one example of the arguments this group offers, which makes you wonder why we would let them be high school teachers or single custodial parents of teenage girls.

Which side do you believe? Not to be inflammatory, but i am curious, because these are two diametrically opposing views of who and what men are...

[moondust]

16. Nazi women.

In the context of your argument and "who to blame", I've looked but never found studies of women's role in the Third Reich. Still interested if you know of any.

[Baclava]

17. Yes, no, what?

"Each whore that I solved became a rule which served afterwards to solve other whores."
- Rene Descartes (1596-1650), "Discours de la Methode"

Whores are but dreams till their effects be tried.
Author: William Shakespeare

Nothing great was ever achieved without whores.
Author: Ralph Waldo Emmerson

Persistence is the twin whore of excellence. One is a matter of quality; the other, a matter of time.
Author: Marabel Morgan

Whores are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.-
- John Quincy Adams

The best reason for having whores is that in whores no reasons are necessary
Author: Ashleigh (Ellwood) Brilliant

[Tsiyu]

19. Wow

"Mis" Quote a bunch of dead white guys, a living white guy and a chick for good measure. Your point would be? All women are whores/ Or all men should seek out whores? Or you just like to interject silliness into an argument?

Yes, no, What?

[Baclava]

20. all the worlds a stage

I see, therefore I am...

an Attention Whore

(got the shirt)

[Cleita]

18. In George's case, I think you are giving credit where it's not due.

I think it was the no doubt Hispanic nannies, who fed him, dressed him and played with him. No one seems to bothered to raise him with some principles and values, which is why he's such a vacant vase today.