Report on prisoner abuse just announced.

[napi21]

Abuse was not just a few individuals. Most abuses not photographed. Night shift operated link Animal House!

Responsible were the leaders like B Gen Karpinski for not proper leadership, but indirect responsibility goes up to higher levels, all the way to Washington.

[tom_paine]

1. link?

[napi21]

6. It was just shown live on CNN. Site doesn't have link yet. n/t

[lottie244]

38. I guess the soldiers who blew the whistle on these abuses will be targeted

by another type of "swift boaters."

[realFedUp]

2. You have to give a link

if you want this thread to be useful.

[thebigidea]

3. considering that the press conference is going on right now...

Currently, Nixonette Tillie Fowler is babbling. Whitewash, whitewash...

I had no idea "Animal House" had sodomy, torture, and murder.

Gen Miller must be chortling right now.

CNN cut away, but its on CSPAN.

[nickinSTL]

4. CNN breaking news headline

'There was no policy of abuse' at Abu Ghraib prison, according to head of commission looking into Iraq prisoner abuse scandal. Details soon.

:eyes:

http://www.cnn.com

[Judi Lynn]

5. Schlessinger's committee's on C-Span right now, giving remarks

on their findings....

In the meantime, here's an article:

Abu Ghraib Report Faults Top Officials
Rumsfeld, Senior Pentagon Officials Share Blame for Prisoner Abuse Scandal, According to Report

The Associated Press



WASHINGTON Aug. 24, 2004 — The Pentagon's most senior civilian and military officials share a portion of blame for creating conditions that led to the Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse scandal in Iraq, according to a new report.

The report, by a commission appointed by Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, was briefing Rumsfeld on its findings and recommendations Tuesday in advance of a Pentagon news conference to release the details. The commission was headed by James Schlesinger, a former secretary of defense.

A person familiar with the report said it implicitly faulted Rumsfeld and Gen. Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, by finding that those responsible for the military prison system in Iraq were operating under confusing policies on allowable interrogation techniques. The person discussed some aspects of the report on condition of anonymity.

The question of how high responsibility for the abuse goes continues to be one of the central unanswered questions in the scandal and it is key to the ongoing criminal cases against several low-ranking military police soldiers charged with mistreatment of detainees at Abu Ghraib.
(snip/...)

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Politics/ap20040824_879.html

[ItsMyParty]

7. Just watched it - barf bag

1) This was only on the nightshift and did not happen during the day. It was the clowns on the night shift (hmmmm-then how about the photos where military intelligence/CIA were present???).

2) The usual "blame" up the ladder because a superior is suppose to know what the underlings are doing.

BUT right after this news conference, there was breaking news from Germany. One of the guys cut a deal with prosecutors and they said that now he could be used to go after people up the chain of command.

This country is a joke being run by lying clowns...........

[thebigidea]

8. some asshole retired General just said...

... that the guards "didn't know" that using dogs was an abuse.



He's going on about how we shouldn't blame anyone, because the military is doing that. The press is "having an inhibiting effect"

Incidentally, I just noticed how strange the editing of this picture is. A man screaming in pain, blood flowing from a poorly duct-taped wound is ok. But genitalia are too awful to be depicted? I never quite understood America's weird puritan streak.

Violence = good.
Anything to do with the body = bad.

[Judi Lynn]

9. Apparently Retired General Charles Horner has gone blind

and can't see the photos millions of people have already studied.

We wouldn't draw that conclusion.

[napi21]

11. Definately doing CYA for the mitary comand! n/t

[thebigidea]

10. bwhahaha! Rumsfeld resigning would be "a boon to America's enemies"

fuck you, Schlesinger.

[napi21]

12. Bigger boon to the USA!

Even our enemies need to know that we punish our guilty!

[thebigidea]

13. no, lets just blame the people who already left: Bremer, Sanchez

see, its easier that way!

[napi21]

14. Reporter just said Administration didn't open the history books before

the invasion! If they had, they should have known better!

[napi21]

15. Now asking about Gen Myers, can he continue to lead?

[thebigidea]

16. Slushinger claims its not their place to reccomend resignations

bwhahahah - that's almost as funny as his awful combover.

[napi21]

17. Gen Sanchez ...extenuating circumstances.

CJTF7 was understaffed. A failure to staff circumstances after it was seen the problems we didn't anticipate. We should have redeployed, and there was insufficient response to his needs.

[thebigidea]

19. Retired General Horseshit continues whining about not affixing blame

Harold Brown continues whining about the press.

Press giggles uproariously at "appealing metaphor."

Ha ha ha! Torture. Ha ha ha. HA!

[gatorboy]

18. Here's another link:

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?flok=FF-APO-1152&idq=/ff/story/0001%2F20040824%2F1215853722.htm&sc=1152&photoid=20040520FRA105&floc=NW_1-T

[sampsonblk]

20. Whitewash

They only fess up to whatever is obvious. This should be a wake-up c all for all those still clinging to hope of a serious prosecution of the Plame case.

If the public doesn't care, they can get away with murder. They have done it again!

[thebigidea]

21. Foul-er: "We were not charged with investigating individual instances of

abuse."

Slushinger claims the military is investigating itself. Ah. Well, that's a relief. He brings up the "Animal House mentality" again about the night shift. I guess that's the soundbyte the talking heads will use tonight... they want to prove Limbaugh right? Geez.

[napi21]

22. There is supposed to be another report tomorrow assigning blame.

Apparently there were two committees or a division of this one. These guys today are very intent on not assigning blame to anyone. That;s not their task.

Wait until tomorrow!!!!

[thebigidea]

23. when we'll hear that they won't be assigning blame either...

... because "there are still investigations going on. We can't come to any conclusions until those investigations finish dragging their feet past the election."

Meanwhile, they drone on about "the chilling effect" this torture business has had on interrogation.

Awww. Poor babies.

[napi21]

24. I don't think so, at least partly not.

They've already mentioned BG Karpinski, and G Sanchez. I don't know how much farther they;ll go tomorrow, but those 2 will be named I'm sure.

[gatorboy]

25. Tomorrow..Hmmmmm.....

Who's up for a Terrorist Alert tomorrow??? :bounce:

[napi21]

27. Naw, it'll be tonight! Gotta have time to attract enough attention!

Ya gotta time this stuff, ya know.

[thebigidea]

26. Schlesinger dodges question about whether or not this is torture.

reporter repeats himself.

Schlesinger sighs.

"We comment in the report that there are such a thing as euphemisms... there is a problem in defining torture... we did not find examples of torture. However we did not look at individual cases."



Nope, no torture.

Schlesinger provides cover for Cambone, says the photos are merely "extracurricular activities" that have been misinterpreted.

[napi21]

28. Cnn site links to Pentagon!

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/08/24/abughraib.report.ap/index.html

Report: Abu Ghraib blame extends to top Pentagon officials

[LizW]

29. They didn't find instances of torture????

Sodomy isn't torture? Rape with objects isn't torture? Dog attacks aren't torture?

I don't know what to say.

[thebigidea]

30. those are just extracurricular activities that have been misinterpreted.

[napi21]

32. Wow, that's a new definition for extraurricular activities, isn't it?

I guess I need to be re-educated!

[Hubert Flottz]

31. So now is it ok for another country to do this to GIs?

Because that is exactly what will happen if our people are taken prisoner now thanks to the DoD!

[napi21]

33. That's the exact position Biden took when Wolfowitcz was there.

Don't you remember him literally gritting his teeth when he told Paul there are reasons we dont do this kind of stuff!

[Hubert Flottz]

34. More reasons to stay the hell out of the military!

Who would join up now?

Edit} The chickenhawks know that, even if they start up the draft boards again, the poor kids will be the ones who pay for this!

[napi21]

35. Don't say that! My son is in the Navy!

He's old enough now that he won't let the commanders sh*t on him, but the newbies don't know any better.

[Hubert Flottz]

36. Look at the guy who did the investigation!

James R. Schlesinger
Source: Biographical Sketch - February 15, 1974

James R. Schlesinger, a former Harvard economist with broad expertise in energy, budget matters and national security, was Director of the Central Intelligence Agency when President Nixon nominated him as Secretary of Defense May 10, 1973. He was confirmed by the United States Senate June 28 and sworn into office July 2, 1973.

Secretary Schlesinger served as Director of the Central Intelligence Agency from February 2, 1973, until he became Secretary of Defense. Prior to his Defense assignment, he was Assistant Director of the Office of Management and Budget and then Chairman of the U. S. Atomic Energy Commission. While at OMB, he was responsible for budget and management activities associated with national security and international programs, and he was OMB's representative on the National Space Council. He was named Assistant Director of the Bureau of the Budget in 1969. He later served as Acting Director of the Bureau during its transition to OMB.

From 1963 to 1969, Secretary Schlesinger was Director of Strategic Studies at the Rand Corporation in Santa Monica, California, where he specialized in strategic analysis with special reference to nuclear weaponry.

For eight years prior to joining Rand, Secretary Schlesinger was an Associate Professor of Economics at the University of Virginia. His book, "The Political Economy of National Security," was published in 1960, and he has written extensively on the role of analysis in relation to political decision-making. More..........

http://www.ford.utexas.edu/library/exhibits/cabinet/schlesin.htm

Another Neocon hack guarding the hen house! Another Bogus investigation! Why would the rest of the world buy this line of trumped up bullshit? The world will see this as just another cover up! There goes another chance to save what little credibility the US has left down the drain! The world will see the "Investigation" as America sees it, a total sham!

[ignatius 2]

37. We have a report from a commission that was handpicked by

Rumsfeld and whose leader currently serves on the defense policy board, a panel that advises Rumsfeld.

Whitewash, just like the 9-11 commission whcik also said failures all the way up the line of command, yet no blame was placed on anyone.

Hell of a way to run a railroad.

[Disturbed]

39. Rumsfailed and Tenet are War Criminals

Many of the Neo Fascists are War Criminals. Will they be prosecuted and brought to justice? Justice? What does that mean now?

Rumsfailed Admitted to Violating Geneva Convention

Rumsfailed admitted in public that when CIA Director Tenet requested that an Irai prisoner be sent to a secret Afghan/US Prison that Rumsfailed did so. After four months a DOD Attorney stated that this was an illegal act. Rumsfailed then ordered that this prisoner be sent back to Abu Graib but the prisoner was not listed at that location. That is two violations of the Geneva Convention. Tenet and Rumsfailed violated the Geneva convention, thereby also The Constitution of the USA. Not one complaint or charge was made regarding Rumsfailed and Tenet, not even by any Dem in Congress.

Does the US no longer follow the Geneva Convention or the Constitution of the USA?

It appears so.

[sweetheart]

40. Too bad you're not talking about US prisons

The irony of Abu Grahib (sp) is that US prisons accept rape and
degenerate treatment just like that, as normal and acceptable.

I was hoping, on reading your headline, that the impossible might
have happened, and that someone might have given a toss about the
millions of americans who've lost their constitutional right to
not be cruel and unusual punishment.