Pushing Religion at Work - How I hate it...

[bleedingheart]

Okay...I was born and raised in the Roman Catholic faith. I am not a "good" catholic by repub standards as I am pro-choice, anti-death penalty and pro-birth control...among many other things....however since no other faith has really lured me I have stayed a Catholic because some aspects of it are appealing to me....

I state this because technically I am a christian...even though there are some religious groups that argue I am not.

So anyways...I got an email at work from this woman who wants to start some bible study at work and she has invited a bunch of us to participate...and it just gives me chills because the last company I worked at had this same thing occur and in the end the fellow who started it became a pariah as everyone who joined his group was busy making up excuses not to go to his promise keeper meetings. One fellow would come into my office and beg me to let him stand behind my door so Mr. X wouldn't see him...it was really pathetic.

Now I deleted the email and I am not going to raise a fuss but I want to say that Work is where you do Work...it isn't where you go trolling for souls to save. I like politics but I don't go trolling for votes at work...

I don't know if it is just me but the more of this that goes on...the more I get turned off by organized religion.

To top it all off this woman has a bumper sticker on her car that reads. "The people who teach tolerance aren't tolerant of Christians"...and my answer is because her type of christian is obnoxious...

[Bluebear]

1. Someone told me just yesterday....

that Christians are the most persecuted group in our country. And she was dead serious.

[Ducks In A Row]

3. ask her if any had been thrown to the lions lately?

No. Well then it doesn't count because they haven't bled.

[susanna]

38. Or even the "final" persecution...

Has he/she been nailed to a cross?

I ask that of everyone who states 1) they're Christian and 2) they're persecuted and 3) "The Passion of the Christ" was instrumental in their lives.

edited because I went off originally.

[bobbieinok]

11. this is constant message in fundamentalist + pentecostal churches

....no prayer in school (but OK in Russia, etc)

....no christmas trees on public property

....no 10 commandments in public places, etc

....etc

I think there's a strong need to create the feeling of being a persecuted minority: everyone sticks together and you feel very self-righteous

[BiggJawn]

30. I have to laugh over Christmas trees....

Those are an emblem of pre-Christian beliefs...Oh, well, they sent their Press Gang after the Pagan's Horned God and turned him into their Demon, what can you expect?

[J.C.M.]

12. perhaps

Pehaps she ment the most "persecuting"?

[GreenPartyVoter]

34. Welcome to DU :^D

[leesa]

37. That's one of their talking points. They are selfish people and love to

play the martyr. She deserves to have her ass kicked.

[UdoKier]

2. I would send back an e-mail that says...

"Please refrain from prosyletizing at work. Not only is it unprofessional, it is extremely presumptious. We are all adults who have our own, varied religious beliefs, and for many of us, they are very personal. I don't promote my religious beliefs at work, and I'd appreciate it if you'd extend me the same courtesy.

Have a good day."

[politicat]

8. ditto that and take it up with HR.

Especially minority religions (and in some areas of the country, Catholics are) can get bashed and harshed pretty hard at these things. It creates an intolerant and unpleasant workplace for all.

If X wants to read her bible at lunch, X is welcome to do so. If Y wants to do the same with Y's Koran, same same. And if they want to talk about it informally on their own time, then fine with them, but making it official and using company resources to organize it gives the impression that it is endorsed by the company. By sending an email, X has used company resources.

My two cents, from working HR/industrial Psych at several fortune 500's, where this comes up.

Pcat

[Warpy]

19. Oooh, great answer

I'm an atheist who worked with a lot of fundies at my last job. I made it clear that whatever it took to be a religious person was simply something I didn't have. I never objected to the private reading and informal discussions in the lunch room, and they never objected to my not joining in. Those religious discussions weren't a constant drumbeat, and I'd join into secular ones. We got along just fine, and they eventually accepted my difference, although I don't think they ever quite believed that an honest and ethical person could possibly be an atheist.

I'd avoid those prayer meetings like the plague, and I'd also refrain from answering that email. Those folks can be mighty thin skinned, and there's no reason giving them cause to feel slighted. A simple "no thanks, not today" when a verbal invitation is extended should be sufficient.

Workplace proselytizing can be deadly if it's not handled correctly. If it becomes hostile, then definitely go to HR and voice your concerns.

[Nay]

45. Yep, reply to the email just as above. I have had to do this

twice at my workplace, and it cut all that shit short. I kept copies of the offending email and my response to it, just in case HR had to get involved. I'm sick of these people assuming I'm a fundie asshole like them.

[Blue Gardener]

46. I agree

Why do people automatically assume I believe as they do? I may fit the profile (live in the midwest, in my 40's, white, female), but I have the ability to think on my own. I don't need them to tell me what I should think.

[noahmijo]

4. I think I'm exactly like you on this

I am Roman Catholic as well but all those things you mentioned pro-choice, ect and I deal with the same "Christians" that try to elevate to their level of opinion when it comes to that.

I just tell myself I follow the religion not the men trying to twist it into something that it is not.

[kikiek]

5. I just bought a great bumper sticker that is very funny..unless you're too

religious and devoid of humor.."God was my copilot until we crashed into a mountain and I had to eat him". I also have one that says "Where are we going and what am I doing in this handbasket?" I think religion is fine and dandy for those who like it. Definitely not to be pushed however.

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. Reminds me of one of my favorite buttons

I've got nothing against God
It's his fan club I can't stand

[kikiek]

33. I saw that one too that is great. We were at Northern Sun in South Mpls.

They have everything. That one is on my wish list for my next trip.

[LibraLabSoldier]

41. I have two....

One says "get a taste of religion, Lick a witch", and the other says "Freedom of religion means EVERYONES religion"

[msanthrope]

50. "God wants spiritual fruits, not religious nuts" bumper sticker n/t

[DemWitch]

6. Reply to the e-mail

Thank you for your invitation, but I have to respecfully decline. I prefer to keep my professional life and personal life separate. Good luck with your endeavor.

<now how's that for politico speech?>

[J.C.M.]

7. Religion anywhere other than your own soul

Good post,

I have the fortune of working with a good group of people who are either not all that religious or if they are, they keep it to themselves. Where it belongs. I once heard these words from a very wise man. He said "Remember, no one out there knows any more about God than you do, and that ain't much."

Cheers!

JCM new guy

[politicat]

13. Nice to meet you, JCM!!

Welcome to DU! Thanks for stopping in and I hope you stay!

Politicat

[J.C.M.]

14. Thanks

I am usually a lone wolf agitating the right winger types at places like "GIJARGON.com"so it's weird to be amonst fellow lefties!

[J.C.M.]

20. the link in your sig file

oh my god...that was chilling, i've already sent it to many others!

thanks

[bleedingheart]

22. Welcome to DU

you are lucky to work with considerate people.

[J.C.M.]

26. Yes I am

The worst we got is a very thoughtful moderate right leaning independent, the rest of us are Liberals...

[Cleita]

9. That's not good.

I hate to make fun of people, but sometimes you have to. Ask her if she would be willing to attend the fertility festival of your Mother Nature religion? Tell her, that of course she will be expected to get naked during the ritual, because if she finds this offensive, then she should know how offensive her pushing her Bible study is to you.

[J.C.M.]

16. typical response

To your scenario would be "no thanks, that's not a real religion."

That's the response I got from a guy when I asked if he would allow Muslim prayer in school. Islam isn't a "real" religion to him. It's going to be the #2 biggest in the US by 2010.

JCM

[bleedingheart]

24. I seriously thought about doing that but I have a reputation at

work for being a bit edgy for some...and she would probably cry or try and exorcize me...hee hee

[Cleita]

27. Well, you don't have to do exactly that.

I myself tell people that I believe in fairies. (Works well for senior types.) You do have to spend a little more time with it, but eventually they just move on thinking either you are batty, or the smarter ones, suddenly realize they have no more to base their beliefs than I do.

[liberalmuse]

10. Wow!

I can't imagine anyone doing that at any place I've ever worked, and I live in Salt Lake City. Work is absolutely no place for obnoxious outward displays of religion. Bible study at work??? What does your boss have to say about this? Unbelievable! That very well could create a hostile work environment, or at least a very uncomfortable one.

[Sugarbleus]

15. Seems to be a lot of this type of thing going around...

"Christian" owned companies etc. I like what some of the poster's here suggested in terms of politely turning them down once and for all.

I have an agnostic girlfriend who HATES when people of any religion bother her at home or at work. LOL She has told any number of "Door to Door" types that 'She is covered under another policy, thanks'..then shuts the door.

Good Luck..... SB

[J.C.M.]

17. Classic come back

Like she's talking about insurance! I guess it is in a way...

[Sugarbleus]

18. =o) I'll tell her you said so...

Peace~~~

[bleedingheart]

23. I work for a Fortune 500 and technically she could

get in hot water for this kind of stuff but being that I don't want to be a jerk and turn her in I am keeping quiet. However if she sends me another one I am going to tell her to stop bothering me.

[Sugarbleus]

44. I like that you are

genteel enough to not want to harm her; if necessary, sending a polite but firm response that you are not interested seems about right.

Good Luck....:)

[skygazer]

21. Had the same thing happen with someone pushing Amway

Same thing, really.........

[bleedingheart]

25. snort!...hahaha

it really is kind of the same thing.

[proud2BlibKansan]

28. I am a teacher in a public school

and we had a meeting of all the teachers in the district and they asked us all to stand up, bow our heads and pray!! Then this guy blessed us all! I was thinking - does this mean some Muslim person will speak next praising Allah?

And isn't it kinda sad when the leaders of a public school district don't seem to understand the meaning of the first amendment?

:puke:

This is how I felt.

[GreenPartyVoter]

31. Well, send her the link to my Would Jesus Love a liberal? site and suggest

that they look it over for Bible study ideas. *g*

http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/liberalchristians.htm

[LibraLabSoldier]

32. It happens where I work.....

And I work for the Army. It is not easy being a Pagan in Uniform......We have constant "spiritual fitness" meetings, breakfasts with the chaplain, ect. Funny, our chaplain at the hospital is a very liberal, open minded guy. I have had discussions with him about the wiccan faith. However, several of the people i work with are rabid Baptists.....SO I feel your pain.

[GreenPartyVoter]

35. Oooh! I have always wondered if there are liberal chaplains in the

service. How very cool that you found one you can talk to! :D

[LibraLabSoldier]

40. Most chaplains are very open minded.

They have to be. Their flocks are too diverse for them to hold on to any kind of hard core dogma for long. Interesting sidebar. In 1999, then GOv. Bush expressed that the military should not make special provisions for Pagan servicemembers, since we "didnt have a real religion." It makes me proud to serve for this man./sarcasm off/

[Pithlet]

36. Ugh. That brings up memories.

I had to deal with very similar things when I worked in a cubicle farm for a major company in the bible belt. It can be very frustrating. Some people fail to realize that not everyone is devoutly religious or shares the same beliefs. The workplace is simply inappropriate.

[leesa]

39. Up to you, but I wouldn't tolerate that for a minute.

Or you might send an e-mail around saying you wanted to start a pagan ritual club and invite everyone to join.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

42. Jesus to Bush: Stop Using Me As a Reference

a bumper sticker I saw in Cambridge today...how fitting.

[DemBones DemBones]

43. Tell her you're Catholic and scare her off.

It usually works with conservative Protestants.

She's really out of line doing this at work.

I'd be tempted to approach her in a friendly way and innocently ask her if the problem is that her church isn't sponsoring Bible studies "because we have great Bible studies at our church -- I'm Catholic and go to Our Lady of Sorrows -- and we'd be glad to have you attend." ;-)

[SpaceCatMeetsMars]

53. It would be funny if you said

"How about if we all say the Rosary together?" I'd like to see her face.

[sweetheart]

47. I would reply back

Dear xyxy,

I am honoured that you invite me to your bible study.
I am a very religious person and i am flattered that you notice
to invite me to your circle. I'm sorry i will not be able
to attend, as i am deeply concerned about religion in the workplace,
having had a friend recently dismissed from another job for
promoting religion at work. I simply cannot take the risk,
in this politically charged time. Please understand that it
is not love of the lord that forbids me, but love of my family
that wishes me to stay employed.

Praise Jesus Christ our lord and saviour. God bless you.

sincerely,

-ijijiji

<let people save face>

[theHandpuppet]

48. Here's a suggestion for a reply...

... one that can be sent via email to this woman and your co-workers:

"Beware of practicing your piety before men in order to be seen by them; for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. Thus, when you give alms, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by men. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you give alms, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your alms may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you. And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by men. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you." (Jesus Christ, Matthew Chpt 6, verses 1-6 RSV)

[kayell]

51. Won't help. This kind of "Christian" avoids reading the NT

It contains far too many quotes from Jesus like this and the Sermon on the Mount that go against everything the rw fundies believe in. Obviously some dangerous radical snuck those bits into the NT.

Fundies always cite passages from the OT to prove their "Christian" points. If they absolutely, positively HAVE to use the NT, they will always use a quote from Paul or from Revelations. The Gospels are way too full of dangerous, liberal sounding stories.

[theHandpuppet]

54. I totally agree with you....

... regarding the issues of fundies ignoring the very gospels which form the rock of Christianity itself -- the teachings of Jesus Christ. They deftly dodge the NT, as Christ's words too often directly contradict their judgmental, bloodthirsty messages.

Here's some additional passages for any self-righteous fundies who seem to have conveniently forgotten the teachings of Jesus Christ:

"Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also."
- Jesus (Matthew Chpt 5, verses 38-39)

"Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?"
Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times." (Matthew Chpt 8, verses 21-22)

"But I say unto you, Love your enemies,
bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you,
and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you." Matthew Chpt 5, verse 44

Who would Jesus bomb?

[kayell]

55. Who would Jesus bomb?

I got in a horrible argument with some hard-shell baptists in the pre-war spring of 2002 because I was caught leafleting the cars in their parking lot with Who Would Jesus Bomb fliers. After they finished telling me what a horrid heathen I was, we proceeded to get into dueling bible quotes - or at least we would have if they could have quoted the bible. In the end they trumped my quotes by telling me that they were good "christians" and they knew exactly who Jesus would bomb. There really isn't anything you can say to that.

[kayell]

52. A correction. It will work, it just won't work on the fundie.

It will, however provide very helpful support to the people that the fundie is targeting. And so yes, this is an excellent idea. People who are Christians should be given a better notion of what their religion is based on than the fundie crap that they are constantly exposed to.

What I don't understand - People who have a preconcieved idea that they are Christians, then let others tell them what that means and how they should behave. They don't even bother to find out if what they are told is close to true. Wouldn't it make more sense to research what different religions believe and then match them up to your own beliefs? Or is dependence on others doing your thinking this essential to most people?

[JSJ]

49. jesus warned the pious of his time to...

...go to their homes if they wanted to pray.