Angry Republicans listen up! John Kerry is a HERO for ending that war!!!

[fearnobush]

John Kerry is a hero because he bravely stood up and did everything he could to stop the FUCKING KILLING!!!!!!!!

John Kerry ought to be a SAINT!!!! How many more tens of thousands of your kids would have to die to keep that war going?

SAINT KERRY!!!!

[CarolynEC]

1. Agreed. Anti-War = Pro-Troops

He was trying to SAVE them, fer chrissake.

[IdaBriggs]

2. THANK YOU!!!

(For stating the incredibly obvious.) What the heck is wrong with these people? Don't they get "war is bad"? What did they want with Vietnam, anyway, once the rubber thing was over? Vacation land? What? IDIOTS!!!

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

6. ...and screw Dole for suggesting the Kerry "apologize" for what he did

(by protesting) the war after he came back! Grrr........

[J.C.M.]

20. Dole is a prostitute

just like the Swift boat gang...out on camera for money.

[lottie244]

42. This what the Kerry camaping should be saying loudly and clearly!!

Widows and orphans of the Viet Nam war would understand this. Many have been brainwashed to believe that if they were agaisnt the Viet Nam war that it would mean they were trashing the memory of their loved one---HOW STUPID!!! Sending your loved ones off to fight and die based on lies and deceptions is beyond "trashing" them. To continue with the lies and deceptions is really "trashing" their memory.

[Must_B_Free]

3. Tell your GOP friends

we'd never be able to move on to the next wars if we were still stuck in Viet Nam decades later...

[Poiuyt]

4. Republicans don't like to end wars

The military industrial complex does very well when we are at war.

[DarkPhenyx]

5. John Kerry didn't end that war.

That would be propaganda/rhetoric.

Thanks for playing though.

He's also quite far from being a saint.

[joefree1]

7. Thanks for the cynicism

But I have to agree with the following statement:
"he bravely stood up and did everything he could to stop the FUCKING KILLING!!!!!!!!"

Passion is way better then cold objectivism.


Download the free poster/sign here:
http://ediablo.com/eDiabloGallery.html

[DarkPhenyx]

11. I agree with that statement too.

Passion? Interesting...passion is one of the things that helped get us into the Iraq Invasion. It also helped the Nazi party to rise to power. Objective rational thought is almost lawys superior to going off on an emotioal adventure...unless you are in bed, but that's yet another story.

Or do you disagree? If so please defend your statement and provide backup for your assertion.

[lottie244]

43. John Kerry helped end the war, so did Jane Fonda and all the peaceniks

You can believe what you want. I lives through that era and had three family members killed and two maimed and gone mad. Anyone who gave voice to opposing that war helped end it and they should be proud of their efforts and not ashamed. I refuse to be brainwashed into thinking that protesting military action and atocities places our troops in more danger, especially when the people we were fighting couldn't even speak English and hadn't a clue as to why we were there. Being in another peoples nation and invading and occupying their land is what causes danger to and risks the lives of our troops.

[DarkPhenyx]

44. "Helped end" is a far cry from "ended"

It's the difference between Regan "ended the cold war" and "was President when the cold war ended". I think you can see the point here.

Now, please do point out where I said "protesting military action and atrocities places our troops in more danger" or any of the other silliness you seem to be accusing me of. If you can't please be adult enough to post a retraction.

Somehow I seriously doubt the language spoken by the people we were fighting really has anything to do with anything. Interesting comment though. Hadn't heard that one before. Does the same thing apply to Germany? Or Haiti? Remember, English was spoken in Vietnam. So was French. You aren't implying that you think the country was completely isolated and backwards are you?

[CaTeacher]

8. you are so right!

helping to stop the war was the BEST thing Kerry has ever done. His work in the Anti-War movement is something that we should all be extremely proud of.

[democrat_patriot]

9. Kerry saved more lives when he came home!!!

NOBODY died because he took his brave stance against the war.

Alot of young men came home alive though.

[DarkPhenyx]

12. Provide evidence for your closing statement.

I'd be interested in seeing it.

[A_Possum]

14. How about providing evidence...

that men died because he took his stance against the war?

[DarkPhenyx]

15. They didn't.

Now...please answer my question if you would be so very kind thank you.

[A_Possum]

19. Not the OP, but I'll give my take

I think you are deliberately parsing the OP's words in a manner that appears to demand that Kerry single-handedly ended the war before it would have ended otherwise.

I don't think that's a valid question. Nobody did that, not even Nixon.

All during 1971 and 1972, Kerry participated in anti-war activities as THE high-profile veteran against the war. His Winter Soldier testimony before congress and his appearances on Dick Cavett, etc. were influential in shaping the country's realization that anti-war protestors were not just hippies and longhairs and Marxists. He fought to keep the anti-war veterans from become too radical, to preserve their influence in the public eye.

His testimony before congress was to a congressional committee that said their mission was to advise the president on how to go about ending the war. They asked for his opinion and clearly took it under advisement.

All of these activities were part of the turning of public opinion that forced Nixon to end the draft and drastically lower the number of troops in Vietnam, eventually leading to a pull-out, though the bombing continued secretly.

So yeah, I think it's quite reasonable to say that because of Kerry's activities, a number of young men's lives were saved. One of them possibly happens to be a high school friend of mine, who had a lottery number that would have been drafted if the draft had not ended when it did.

The Vietnam Veterans Against the War were no small part of ending it, and Kerry was one of the most prominent, persuasive and active of those veterans.

[DarkPhenyx]

21. So you agree then that OP's statement is...

...falacious at best and misleading at worst.

Propaganda and rhetoric are two of the worst pieces of afterbirth taht come from the formation of Democracy. We should at laest be honest with ourselves.

At a bare minimum we shouldn't be willing to make statement we aren't willing to stand behinsd and provide some sort of support for. Doing otherwise just makes us look foolish.

[A_Possum]

23. No, I don't agree

that the OP's statement is either fallacious or misleading.

I think you are going way overboard rhetorically yourself to say that.

[DarkPhenyx]

24. Too bad.

Oh well...prehaps another day. Hope does spring eternal you know. Keep reading, and re,member to think about it too. That's the important part. Avoid the rampant stupidity that tends to infect these things. You might make it yet.

[A_Possum]

27. I'm doing just fine, hon

I suspect I'm doing as well as you, in fact. ;-)

[A_Possum]

28. P.S.

Would you feel better if the topic were named, "John Kerry is a hero for taking part in ending that war?"

I feel pretty sure that was the point.

[DarkPhenyx]

41. Yes.

However that makes him just one of several million people who did exactly the same thing. Not that this is a bad thing mind you, just makes it a bit more common is all, and not all that "wow" worthy.

[A_Possum]

45. However, not very many millions of them testified before congress

Or were debating the issue on Dick Cavett, or getting headlines for VVAW as a decorated veteran against the war, or ranked ahead of Daniel Ellsberg on Nixon's enemies list.

I think you are committing some of the same sins of rhetoric as the OP. :-)

[A_Possum]

10. The IMPORTANT parts of Kerry's testimony...

From the Congressional Record, 1971:

"Mr. Kerry: Well, Senator, frankly it does not appeal to me if American men have to continue to die when they don't have to, particularly when it seems the Government of this country is more concerned with the legality of where men sleep than it is with the legality of where they drop bombs. (Applause.)...

...But at the present moment that is not going to happen, so we are talking about men continuing to die for nothing and I think there is a tremendous moral question here which the Congress of the United States is ignoring...

...But I think if can talk in this legislative body about filibustering for porkbarrell programs, then we should start now to talk about filibustering for the saving of lives and of our country. (Applause.)

And this, Mr. Chairman, is what we are trying to convey."

*********

That sounds like a patriot to me. Be proud.

[DarkPhenyx]

13. No argument there.

None at all in fact.

[J.C.M.]

16. I love you all

I’m relatively new to the whole Internet chat forum thing. In the time I’ve been doing it, about 3 years, I’ve mostly posted at right wing sites, trying to calmly explain this world of ours to our dim witted brothers. It’s like trying to teach math to monkeys. There are only two types of conservatives, the Rich and the dumb. Nothing else.

Liberals: It’s time to be obnoxious, become a leftist bully. It’s the only thing they understand. Bush is a bully, they listen to him. It’s time to cast aside the niceties. They’ve gotten us no where. Don’t let that stupid forwarded email go unanswered. When I get the “Swift Boat” type emails calling Senator Kerry’s war record into question I hit the “reply all” button and I call the sender out. I ask them to explain just how they presume to pass judgment on a young man in combat.

The other night my wife and I watched “Bowling for Columbine”. I lay my head in her lap and I cried. See she is a Canadian, I am an American. When we were married we didn’t even discuss which country we would live in. It was a given. That film summed it up. The right wing is stripping our freedom from us and replaced it with fear.

My kid is not going to be an American, he’s Canadian. I never thought I could conceive of a safer place for my children to grow up in. I never thought I would leave.

The country I grew up in has been high-jacked by corporate greed, working class apathy and ignorance, hate and fear.

Fight the good fight, please go out and support any and every left leaning politicians you can think of. Stop being silent. Don’t let the bastards take anymore.

Its tough being the conscience of a country but the other side of the isle sure as hell can’t do it. They’re too worried about gay marriage, flag burning and the price of oil.

JCM

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. “

~John Kenneth Galbraith

[GOPFighter]

25. <Standing Ovation>

Well said. You are spot on! I feel exactly the same way. I used to ignore the RW propaganda emails but now I reply all and give it right back. I've lost a lot of "Friends" and alienated a lot of my family, but how dare they feel they have the right to email me with their views and get insulted when I reply with my views.

BTW, welcome to DU.

[J.C.M.]

29. Thanks GOPfighter

I like your handle. Yes, I think it's time to put the cards on the table. I've got some bone heads in other offices with whom I work who are no longer friendly with me. NO LOSS. I tolerated it when it was Clinton. After all, he was begging for it with Monika, but As far as I am concerned Kerry is a GOD when compared to that fraud in the Whitehouse.

God Bless America?

We'll see in November! Hopefully he will!

[A_Possum]

36. Welcome to DU

I like your sig line.

[IndianaGreen]

17. Kerry is not a Saint. All Saints are dead when they are canonized.

Kerry was courageous in opposing the war in Vietnam when he returned stateside, but he was not the only person, or the most effective one, in opposing the war.

I think Martin Luther King spoke with the most moral authority when he turned against the war. Bobby Kennedy was second to Dr. King. It was a very traumatic period in our history, and it saddens me that we are resurrecting the old ghosts.

[J.C.M.]

18. It's not about who Kerry is

It's about who he ISN'T

BUSH!

[DarkPhenyx]

22. No, he isn't Bush.

He also isn't Clinton, or Washington, or Lincoln, or JFK...

I just wish we had a better choice than "Not Bush".

[J.C.M.]

32. Baby steps

Don't get too excited and try to fix all the problems with one election. Get that moron out of office first. Then one after another we clean out congress get these snake handling sister groping red necks back to where ever they came from!

[DarkPhenyx]

40. again I agree...

...right up to the stupid South bashing "Redneck" comment you made that is. When you are in the right and making sense it is probably best not to make bigoted comments. It undermines your position.

For the record Busk isn't Pol Pot, Hitler, Temujin...

[A_Possum]

26. "My mother is a Saint!"

We often use that metaphor without meaning it literally.

I don't think anyone would argue that Kerry single-handedly ended the war, but I do think we can and should be proud that he had the courage to stand up publicly as a "clean-cut, decorated" veteran, and speak against it.

The pug meme out there right now is, what he did was treasonous and bad. Well, we are just saying, hell no it wasn't. It was patriotic and good.

[IndianaGreen]

30. We are facing the same issue today

Troops do commit war crimes, particularly in a war of aggression as it is in the case of Iraq. Those that committed war crimes, as well as their superiors should be held accountable.

The fact that some troops committed war crimes does not make a criminal out of everyone in uniform.

How do you think our troops in Iraq feel about the way they are being perceived by the actions of MPs and MIs at Abu Graib?

[A_Possum]

31. Good point

I'm not sure what it has to do with my post?

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mr_Spock]

34. That's funny

Liberal pussies are going to be hauling off on a few real soon too!

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[fearnobush]

37. Glad to see this post got the attention of some GOP friends.

At any rate, the term SAINT is not to be taken literally, nor is the idea that Kerry single handedly ended the war. The point is however, that Kerry had to become a real big man to stand up against the killing fields and end the death. Today, our nation is a lot more liberal minded (Believe it or not) than it was 35 years ago. Just look at the "is the Iraq war worth it" polls? Fully 50% of the nation says no to this current war with a casualty rate of 580% less than that of Vietnam's. The current attacks on Kerry today only make him stronger. America will have to make a decision soon. That decision will come down to who wants to die for a self serving President or who wants to live for a magnanimous one.

[Saynt]

38. Damn, I got here too late

what did the repug say?

[K8-EEE]

39. Agreed!! While Bush Was Only Thinking Of His OWN Ass...

Kerry put his on the line, in Vietnam AND at the protests. Anybody who watches his whole testimony in 71 would vote for him.