Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

"The War Protests Prolonged the Vietnam War"

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 04:14 PM
Original message
"The War Protests Prolonged the Vietnam War"
That's what a caller/veteran just told Sean Hannity, who accepted what he said as Gospel Truth. The caller said that if it weren't for the protests, the war would have been over around the time of the Tet Offensive, or 1968. And that John Kerry is responsible for those deaths.

But the main Vietnam War protests did not start until 1969. And John Kerry was still in Vietnam at that time. He didn't testify before Congress until 1971.

Not only are these right-wingers gullible and ignorant, they don't know how to read a calendar.

:-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
klook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
1. Suffragette marches postponed women's voting rights, too
And the Selma-to-Montgomery march set the civil rights struggle back years.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Hilarious. Thank you. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
2. funny punch line
what's the rest of the joke.
oh yeah desperate people trying to make the viet nam war an honourable event -- it wasn't -- america shamed herself -- get over it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
3. Civil rights protests delayed school integration
I swear, it's true!

Love,

Lester Maddox
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
4. Abolitionists prolonged slavery too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
5. He's right...if the military would have used nukes.
Or, "Bombed them into the stone-age" as some of the killers wanted. As far as the revisionists are concerned, Vietnam was a noble cause that was lost due to the "bleeding heart" protestors who didn't think that killing millions of people was such a hot idea.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
7. BULLSHIT
I lived through that time. It was always "light at the end of the tunnel" "body counts for enemy up" blah blah blah.

We could NEVER have conquered that country unless we had nuked it, killed all the Vietnamese and re-populated it with Kansans.

The protesters SHORTENED it by FORCING the government to admit that it was horribly wrong to stay and leave.

If there hadn't been protests we WOULD STILL BE THERE, getting our asses kicked for NO GOOD REASON. Hell, not even a bad reason
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. Bullshit is right.
And that caller/supposed-veteran is full of it.

- Owl
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
radar Donating Member (447 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
8. Hehe, Right....
...And all the people that called Vietnam home were just falling all over themselves willing to let the foreigners come in and tell them how to live their lives.

Geez, people celebrating how our under-equipped founding fathers fought the experienced British soldiers for so long ignore how another country might have similar motives to resist us today; or 30/40 years ago.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lottie244 Donating Member (903 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
9. Did anyone call Hannity to point this out to him on the air?
It doesn't mean much if we just talk to ourselves. We need to make our voices heard on RW radios too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
10. I'm sitting here trying to fathom how anybody could think that
All I can think of is that it goes to the notion that there could have been a military victory. Like, get rid of North Vietnam altogether.

I don't know, but it seems to me there were very few people who believed there was going to be a military solution by 1969 -- even Nixon recognized that. Even John F'ing O'Neill realized it and said so in the Dick Cavett debate.

I can't even believe we're revisiting this. The protestors were right, they've been proven right, and I didn't think there was even any question anymore that they were right.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sangh0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
11. Wow! Propoganda that smells like patchouli !!!
That really brings me back, man.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Oh that is funny!
real funny...

"Wow! Propoganda that smells like patchouli !!!"

rotflmao
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JohnOneillsMemory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
12. Noam Chomsky says that domestic unrest DID affect the deployment of troops
Edited on Thu Aug-26-04 08:18 PM by JohnOneillsMemory
In Chomsky's 'Understanding Power' he said in a speech transcript from the 90s that the White House and Pentagon were afraid the country would completely come apart in the streets as anti-Vietnam War protests grew.

Consequently, according to Chomsky, the generals kept troops at home in case of martial law and didn't send as many overseas to Vietnam as they would have due to concerns over well-organized domestic dissent and the appearance of losing control in the streets followed by further loss of support for the war.

That's why the US government long ago (1984 during Reagan's secret wars south of here) planned to never again be hampered in waging war by the mere wishes of the electorate and upsettingly visible protesters. They didn't want to have to dedicate troops to holding the fort while they were away fighting Injuns for land to add to the American empire.

So the warrior class learned to stay out of sight and stay below the threshold of resistance to using mass-murder, torture, and theft to ‘grow’ the nation’s economy. All US-inflicted casualties are now carefully screened out by the war-profiteering weapons industry-owned media.

But just in case the truth of US atrocities again came to light and outraged the public to resistance, executive orders from the White House (REX84) were enacted allowing the military and the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) to take over the country and put dissenters in concentration camps ‘during times of national emergency such as widespread civil unrest at time of war’ thereby assuring the Pentagon autonomy from democracy. The assault on the Bill of Rights from the USAPATRIOT Act was developed at that time also as we were warned in a 1987 speech by former Angola CIA station chief, John Stockwell:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4068.htm
(The Secret Wars of the CIA)
>snip<

"The `Pre-emptive Strikes' bill. President Reagan, working through the Secretary of State Shultz... almost 2 years ago, submitted the bill that would provide them with the authority to strike at terrorists before terrorists can do their terrorism. But this bill... provides that they would be able to do this in this country as well as overseas. It provides that the secretary of state would put together a list of people that he considers to be terrorist, or terrorist supporters, or terrorist sympathizers. And if your name, or your organization, is put on this list, they could kick down your door and haul you away, or kill you, without any due process of the law and search warrants and trial by jury, and all of that, with impunity.

Now, there was a tremendous outcry on the part of jurists. The New York Times columns and other newspapers saying, `this is no different from Hitler's "night in fog" program', where the government had the authority to haul people off at night. And they did so by the thousands. And President Reagan and Secretary Shultz have persisted.... Shultz has said, `Yes, we will have to take action on the basis of information that would never stand up in a court. And yes, innocent people will have to be killed in the process. But, we must have this law because of the threat of international terrorism'.
>snip<

"The special actions teams that will do the pre-emptive striking have already been created, and trained in the defense department.

They're building detention centers. There were 8 kept as mothballs under the McLaren act after World War II, to detain aliens and dissidents in the next war, as was done in the next war, as was done with the Japanese people during World War II. They're building 10 more, and army camps, and the... executive memos about these things say it's for aliens and dissidents in the next national emergency....

FEMA, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, headed by Loius Guiffrida, a friend of Ed Meese's.... He's going about the country lobbying and demanding that he be given authority, in the times of national emergency, to declare martial law, and establish a curfew, and gun down people who violate the curfew... in the United States.

And then there's Ed Meese, as I said. The highest law enforcement officer in the land, President Reagan's closest friend, going around telling us that the constitution never did guarantee freedom of speech and press, and due process of the law, and assembly.

What they are planning for this society, and this is why they're determined to take us into a war if we'll permit it... is the Reagan revolution.... So he's getting himself some laws so when he puts in
the troops in Nicaragua, he can take charge of the American people, and put people in jail, and kick in their doors, and kill them if they don't like what he's doing..."

Remember, this was from 1987. And it happened in 2001.

Eliminating the draft effectively eliminated resistance from the middle class college kids. Mainly the poor sign up out of desperation mixed with searching for acceptance through self-sacrifice. Thus the poverty conscripts are co-opted by becoming complicit in the empire's expansion while they apply for food stamps as reward.

Perfectly illustrating the Stockholm Syndrome-like (victim bonding with kidnapper) relationship that US troops have with their abusive and corrupt Commander-in-Chief, the NAACP has a cozy working relationship with the Pentagon with military dinners sponsored by Lockheed Martin. Originally, the NAACP fought for integration and equal benefits for African American soldiers. Now the NAACP enables a jobs program for people of color who pull the trigger in the so-called War on Terror which is really 'Operation Global Lynching."

Yet the NAACP decried the US military coup in Haiti this year. Trying to get a piece of the pie in a permanently militarized economy can lead to eating army rations. Affirming the institution of the military in order to support the troops taking orders has served to trickle legitimacy up to the war criminals who give the orders.

Americans are still in denial about being complicit in the violence perpetrated by a government they know deep down in their hearts isn't of, by, or for the people thus making it utterly illegitimate.

Inquiring minds or throbbing consciences are mollified with patriotic lullabyes to soothe the schizophrenic disconnect from logic and humanity with the cover story that they kill to defend family, God, and life itself.

It takes courage to admit that you live in country that is devastating the planet and has slaughtered innocents for generations.

Yet many Americans cling to a master-race mythology of democratic infallibility when weighing 'their' governments impact on other people like a child who’s unable to admit their parent is a genocidal mass-murderer. It seems that in order to like ourselves we must believe we are part of a family or nation that is good and noble just like ourselves. Any one who suffers at our hands must surely be evil and deserve it.

Daddy said so.
Fuhrer knows best.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tlcandie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Very eloquent.. thank you!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HawkerHurricane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
15. The war didn't start with Americans.
The was started with the French.

In the 1920's, the group that Ho Chi Mihn would lead began fighting it.
Some Vietnamese collaborated with the French.

When Japan took over French Indochina, they began fighting the Japanese.
The same Vietnamese who collaborated with the French collaborated with the Japanese.

When France came back, they went back to fighting the French.
The same Vietnamese went back to collaborating with the French.

When the French pulled out, they divided the country into chunks...North Vietnam was the chunk given to the resistance, South Vietnam was given to the collaborators.

When we assisted South Vietnam, we were assisting the people who had gotten wealthy and powerful collaborating with the French and Japanese. They were seen as collaborating with US.

We would have been better off if we stayed out. But hindsight is always 20/20.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 26th 2024, 05:57 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC