Advice from gen X'r to Boomers regarding saving Social Security

[sventvkg]

I had replied to another post but decided to also post this in the new thread here in light of it's importance.


Well Boomers, don't play the victim here...When this agenda was allowed to take place you all should have known what was coming. I mean, it sucks but even I predicted most of what has transpired in the last 4 years and I'm 33...My generation sucks..We Don't vote..but you guys do, are old and are the largest generation ever....I would say we all let this happen but it's worse for you all because you all let it happen to yourselves.....Now, what do you do about it? Maybe you'll all get pissed enough to silience the fanatical right, put aside differences, kick 90% of ALL politicians out of Govt(both good for nothing Dem and Repug) via your right to vote, elect some people who really want to help, and fix this fucking country...If that doesn't happen, I dont' feel sorry for any of you....Many will die on the job at WalMart, and still many others will be out on the street....If you boomers can get this going...I AM WILL YOU ALL AND SO ARE MY INFORMED AND CONCERNED GEN X'RS...But, If we don't see you serious about taking care of yourselves, how the hell can you expect us to give a shit about you? We'll just wait until it's our turn....This is the Real world....What do you want to do Boomers?

[skooooo]

1. Wow.

I'm not impressed.

[sventvkg]

2. Denial.....

It's up to take the lead in fixing this....You know it.

[SharonAnn]

38. Actually, he/she is right. Many if my baby boomers cohorts have

indeed let this happen. They've voted for Republicans for all kinds of reasons instead of voting for good, solid economic policies for the country. They've voted for paying the Social Security surplus to the rich (via the tax cuts), instead of paying down the debt.

etc., etc.

We Baby Boomers are indeed guilty of a lot of this. I, of course, and many of my friends, have tried to convince our cohorts that they were voting away their future. But they haven't all acted accordingly.

Truth hurts, but in this case what is said is pretty close to the truth.

And if we won't stand up for ourselves, why SHOULD anyone else stand up for us. How lazy are we?

[Name removed]

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[sventvkg]

6. Are yo out of your mind???????????????????????????????

Repig.......No fucking way jack...Just some hard truths man...You have the power to fix this very easily and it's urgent as its happening to you soon!

[skooooo]

12. Your attitude sucks, though..

...and the reaction you're getting from others should clue you in.

[sventvkg]

15. sorry, why sugar coat it? We live in seriously tumultuous times...

So, my position is too harsh...Alright, well then I guess there will be no Social security. Wake up and get pissed! Damn...Where's your passion? If you don't have that, how can you expect to change things in your favor?

[skooooo]

18. I'll get right on that..

....how stupid of me to neglect that problem.

[Eloriel]

44. But this is the type of attitude I see from Gen Xers --

They RESENT the hell out of the Boomer generation, they scapegoat us, they blame us for not having done more and/or for not getting the job done so that THEIR lives are better -- in short they are (at least from the ones I've seen at DU) a pretty sullen and brutish lot, with a sense of entitlement (and the concommitant resentment against their parents -- US!) that is simply appalling to me.

The irony is that called the Boomers "the ME generation." Gen Xers have it all over the Boomers. One thing that can be said about the Boomers: we saw plenty of things wrong with the world our parents had built (or allowed to be built, as the case may be), and while we blamed them, we didn't resent them for it. We just set out to fix it. And we achieved a lot (something else the GenXers can't bother to see).

[madmax]

4. Well not to be rude

but, what do you think we 'boomers' have been doing? Sitting in our rocking chairs crocheting?

You had me with 'My generation sucks..We Don't vote..'

[Eric J in MN]

5. We had a huge budget surplus under Clinton. It's the

Republicans who need to be voted out, not the Democrats.

[sventvkg]

9. Bullshit, the dems that are in there are mostly weak.....sorry

We need a whole new batch of people who care about society and basic rights of the people and who are not beholden to spencial interests from years of favors....

[Eric J in MN]

40. If the Democrats had a majority in the House, we wouldn't be

in such bad shape in terms of the budget deficit.

[mike_c]

64. dems have been just as guilty of raiding social security...

...as the repigs. Most people are not even aware that Social Security would be in fine shape if the SS surplus wasn't considered a free ride for deficit spending. The original poster's attitude might rub some people the wrong way, but he's essentially correct.

The closest anyone ever comes to telling the truth about SS is noting that the federal deficit is a big part of the problem, but no one wants to face the fact that it's not the REAL problem. SS has hemorraged money because Congress-- on both sides of the aisle-- has been hiding the worst effects of the federal deficit behind the SS surplus for decades. That cowardice is the real problem.

[Connie_Corleone]

7. I'm a Gen X'er and I would just like to say...

That this person does not speak for Generation X.

I don't know who you hang out with, but everyone I know who is a Gen X'er votes. We're older now and have more responsibilities. The only thing I will say on this subject of social security is that there are not enough workers in the workforce to pay SS benefits for all of the baby boomers who will be retiring soon.

I think that most baby boomers already knew this was going to happen. And Gen X'ers never counted on social security being in existence at all when we start retiring.

All I say is save your money as soon as possible, because we will ALL have to fend for ourselves when we become senior citizens.

[sventvkg]

11. You are certainly right about us not thinking it will be there..

Good to know there are other Gen X'rs out there who do vote and do give a shit..but, by and large we are under represented in the booths...You know that.

[davekriss]

21. I see you've injested the vile meme

The social security trust fund is solvent until something like 2042. All it would take is a small uptick in yearly GDP, conservatively assumed to be very low, to continue solvency past the baby boomer blip. I might add, too, that there are population experts who believe the U.S. population is going to grow 87% between now and 2050, meaning many more workers will be coming on-line over this time period than was originally assumed (the question is will job-growth keep pace).

The trust fund was, of course, loaned to the USG which used it to pay for general services now. Politicians got to continue to lightly tax the advantaged and corporations and say the deficit was lower (or surplus higher) because the trust fund yearly cash flows were added to tax revenues before deducting expenditures.

The problem now is George Walker Bush decided to give away a 2.7 trillion dollar tax cut, the vast majority going to a thin sliver of the U.S. population. So, instead of continuing the surplus trajectory established during the Clinton years (preparing the way to pay those IOU's to the Trust Fund), Bush plunged us into deep (record setting) deficit spending, continuing the agenda begun during the Reagan/GHWB years. Now they float trial balloons about the "ownership society". Understand this: The owning class, now that they've plundered the Treasury and strengthened their personal financial fortresses, now they want you and I to accept that we "own" our future deprivation and misery. Ayn Rand writ large: We are, to them, useless eaters and cannon fodder. Serfs. Nothing more.

Why would they do this? The Republicans of 1981-1992, 2001+? They want to keep us from taking care of ourselves through the mediation of our democratic institutions and instead, by desperate necessity, turn to the cash nexus, the "market" where the corporate overlords rule. It is so very much easier for them to extract value from our sweat if we believe we are all desperately alone and incapable of collectivist action. They want to turn you and I into compliant serfs in the future global feudalism.

Where the law of the majority ceases to be acknowledged, there
government ends; the law of the strongest takes its place, and
life and property are his who can take them.
---Thomas Jefferson, to Annapolis Citizens, 1809.

Bah! I say. Fight the power! Beat back the beast with democracy!!

"Get off the internet; I'll see you in the streets!"

[Nobody]

46. I'm another gen x-er and I have this to say...

I have never missed a single election.

I have never counted on social security to be there for me.

I have tried to save up for retirement, but guess what. The rug keeps getting yanked out from under me. Every time I start accumulating a 401k, I lose my job through no fault of my own. The comapny goes under taking the 401k with it. Twice I have had to start over saving for retirement.

Now I have a job with no benefits of any kind. If I'm lucky, I'll retire at 95. If I live that long.

Feh!

[Racenut20]

8. I remember when I was 33. The World was an oyster

And I was its pearl.
But then that was before $240,000 in tuition for my three children hit my mailbox.

[shanti]

10. you don't vote??

stop right there. you have nothing more to say!

[Connie_Corleone]

13. I know that's right!

:argh:

[sventvkg]

14. I was talking in General terms....MY Generation..NOT ME!!

Christ man....I'm staring at my voting card now..I vote.

[papau]

17. The postings on DU re Social Security may be of interest to you

There are folks here with a bit more expertise than Greenspan and the GOP in this area.

The facts - as stated by the techies in charge - are that SS has no problem (until 2042 under "Bush slow growth" economic assumptions in the Soc Sec Admin report, and to 2052 under the current GAO longer term conservative assumptions.

The problem from the year 2052 and forward can be solved by moving Reagan's Age 67 to age 70 for normal retirement (age 65 normal retirement died in the Reagan tax cuts for the rich and their effects on the Reagan budget, followed by the attempt at that time to bring sanity to our budget numbers).

[Yupster]

49. Social Security has no problem until 2042 as long as

the government pays its IOU's back to the trust fund with interest.

Of course since that money's already been spent on other stuff, that makes the first phrase sort of pointless.

I'll have no trouble paying for Harvard as long as I get a full scholarship is fine,

but kind of meaningless since I'm not going to get a full scholarship to Harvard.

[papau]

51. Bonds of the Federal Gov MUST be paid - so tax rise on rich - or cut

benefits.

I expect the rich to repay the moneys borrowed from Social Security that financed the tax cut for the rich.

GOPer Greenspan wants a benefit cut.

A debate - no doubt - but not pointless.

[Yupster]

60. Not if the US Government bond

is owed to the US government.

When you owe yourself money, you don't have to pay yourself back.

[jayctravis]

55. Perhaps the poster...

*should* be putting his opinions in terms of his/herself instead of the entire "generation". Always a better idea.

[napi21]

16. Well sven, you're forgetting something here.

Back in the last 70's or early 80's, social security eligibility age was increased from 65 progressively over several years, and we were promised this would cure the problems. It did! The problem is our dear Fed. officials couldn't stand to see this excess money sitting there just waiting for a problem, so they dicided to SPEND IT!

Don't give me a hard time about not fixing the problem when we knew it in the past! I'm 61 now, and I'm not eligible until I'm almost 66 (65+ 10 months). I was born in 1943, but anyone born after that must work longsr than that to be eligible, up to age 70 if I remember right.

Don't tell me I'm uninformed either! I pay close attention to everything that is going on, and constantly contact my elected officials when they screw up...which is quite often!

Many Americans LET THIS HAPPEN! I don't know if you can blame any particular generation, but you sure can blame voter apathy, and guess what? That's the younger generation far more than mine!

[sventvkg]

19. You are very very right and I agree with everything you said..

Boomer, i'm not against you, i'm with you on this...Get mad, let's get motivated and change things...I mean the Bush Tax cuts were a travisty...All the elected officials who still think it's alright to spend the $$ they get in the form of SS tax...They need to go...You need to send a message en mass...We will be with you on it..That's all i'm saying..Get pissed!!!

[napi21]

20. You don't have to say that to me. I've been voting against any

incumbant Senator or Congressman for many years now! I even had a LTTE published in our local paper about 2 weeks ago telling all the other voters to do the same. The current LTTE was in response to the gross incompetence of EVERY Gov't Agency that was uncovered by the 9/11 Commission. My point was to replace EVERYBODY!

There was another LTTE published about 4 days later in response to mine. This person said "This is obviously just another whining Kerry supporter who's putting down out dear President".

I really do try, but damn, I live in North Georgia...what do you want from me?

[sventvkg]

22. I understand where you are coming from and aplaud your tactics

You realize our position is extreme here on DU, don't you? Seems most are way more centrist then me but I think extreme tactics are our only hope of righting the wrongs of the right...Being nice about it, keeping the same loosers in office that have at the very least, been part of the process that has been failing us, just seems wrong to me..I feel your pain about GA...I'm in Alaska!!! OMG GOP territory to the max!!! However, we are going to put a Dem in the Senate in November!!! Tony knowles has a very good chance of unseating Lisa Murcowski thereby changing the dynamic in the senate! This is the race i'm concentrating on and trying to help.

[Cogito ergo doleo]

26. We've been pissed for years

but nothing changes no matter who you vote in. My husband and I are independent contractors. What that means is, we pay income tax and all of our SS. That comes out to about 30% of our gross.

SS is not an entitlement as the RW's like to spout; if you do not pay your SS, you go to jail. So we have paid tens of thousands of dollars into SS and probably won't see it. It would have been wonderful if we could have put all that money into savings, but what can you save when you are putting 30% of your earned money into taxes and SS?

That the government feels perfectly entitled to *steal* the money that we have been forced by law to set aside for our SS is remarkable. What are the odds that one could effectively make a case to such a government?

[Name removed]

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[sventvkg]

27. Nice to know you are all taken care of...My Mistake.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[UTUSN]

28. Yip, You've Fully Exemplified ROVE's Plan: Dems Turning on Dems

While you're turning Dems out of office (too), take a gander at what you're going to get:

*********QUOTE*********
http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2004/08/25/bush_second_term/index.html

And you thought his first term was a nightmare
What Bush has planned for America if he wins.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
By Charles Tiefer

Aug. 25, 2004 | .... Under Bush's slogan of an "ownership society," the Republicans intend a long-term effort, using changes in Medicare, Social Security and taxes to pit better-off and worse-off Democrats against each other, offering all-but-irresistible incentives for some to desert the others -- and any progressive national coalition. .... A second-term Bush agenda will constantly impale Democrats on the dilemma of abandoning their poorer, sicker, older and minority groups, or seeing their better-off, healthier and younger members lured off to the other party. If it sounds like a political nightmare for the Democrats, that's because that's what it is planned to be. ....

********UNQUOTE*******

[sventvkg]

31. Get new Dems in that are truly for progressive change

The ones we have now are NOT....If Bush Wins are are screwed to be sure.

[sventvkg]

29. Obviously What I was trying to say is not being taken the Way I had hoped

Instead I've been attacked and ridiculed....No wonder why the left can't get out shit together...

[SharonAnn]

39. I think you've said the truth, or at least par tof it. See my post above.

[Logansquare]

30. I know y'all were too busy trying to save Napster to care

about SS. See you in hell.

[sventvkg]

32. I think that was the next Gen down you are refering to....

Not Gen X.As for hell, Got a newsflash..We are There now jack.

[Logansquare]

33. Yes, we are. Thanks for pointing fingers away from yourself

[Cleita]

34. I have apologized for this before that we didn't do enough.

I'm not a boomer by-the-way, but born just before the boomer generation, so a lot of their battles were also my battles. However, please don't throw away what we did do. We fought for women's rights in so many venues that many of you X'ers take these hard won rights for granted as if they always were there. We eliminated the draft due to another unjust war Vietnam. We were instrumental in ending the cold war that kept us under nuclear threat and huge amounts of our money being poured into it.We ended racial discrimination in so many ways that you don't know how bad segregation was.

I am sorry that we couldn't get around to SS, healthcare and domestic issues as we would have liked to. So what do we get as thanks a snotty post like the one above saying that we deserve to lose our benefits because we didn't do enough. If we hadn't fought for what we did manage to accomplish, those benefits would have been gone a generation ago. Now it's your turn. Do something instead of blaming it on your parents like you always do.

Damn it. We did our best!

[sventvkg]

35. Fair enough...you did you a lot, and I appreciate it for sure.

I just feel bad because at this juncture the way it's potentialy coming down, you can't count on my generation...You all know that..Before we become collectively active enough to do something it will be too late for the boomers if the scnerio goes in the extreme negative...So, unfortunately, yet again, it's on your doorstep wtih your huge constituency, and it's ill timed to be sure..For that, I feel you got a very bad deal. Good luck...

[Cleita]

42. Ya know, the solidarity didn't come out of a vacuum.

A couple of weekends ago my precinct walking partner was a young Gen-X woman. We hit it off right away. My concerns and her's were the same. Not only that, she had a job to go to afterwards. It was more of a commitment for her to take the time to do this than for a retiree like me who is more likely to have free time on my hands.

So I see no reason why no one can spend an evening at the computer informing oneself of the issues and then showing up to vote. In my day, even when I had to work two jobs to keep myself together, I still could go to the library, inform myself and vote.

I was very impressed with this young woman and I know that there are many like her out there. You have to reach out and find these people and organize into coalitions. Yes, it takes time and commitment, but as you identify your leaders you can pull in more of your peers into these coalitions, hold meetings, and map out a plan. That's what the baby boomers did. Also, the coalitions were bi-partisan for the most part, both Democrats and Republicans because, the wrongs in our society reached across the board.

If you guys don't start mobilizing, remember most of us will die before you do. So then who are you going to look to? You have to do it yourself.

[Logansquare]

36. When I was young, everything was the fault of the 50's generation

We were all over their asses--our parents who suffered through the Depression, and fought and sacrificed in the most destructive war in history. We hated their blind trust in America, and had contempt for their terror of foreign invasion. But, each generation has it's Achilles heel, and Gen-X, or whatever group this poster thinks he/she belongs to has one too. It's funny to me now, how youth persistently believes it has figured everything out.

[sventvkg]

37. That aint me Jack, I never said I had it all figured out.....

I basically think we very well may be fucked!!! I'm not Blaming the Boomers as I just stated in my last reply...It's just that this going to fall in their laps do to the timing of it and the fact that my Gen just Ain't participating collectivly at this juncture...I am not one of those Blame the preview Generation guys....I'll share in the blame like everyone else.

[papau]

53. "ownership Society"=no tax increase on rich= cut Soc Sec - Very True

And a 2nd term Bush means all of the above

and we may - indeed we will - be screwed - if Bush gets a second term.

[Athame]

56. Not to mention ZPG and the environment

We boomers took the Population Bomb seriously. We cut down on the number of children and tried to educate others to do the same. I know at least five people from my college years who worked with the Peace Corps teaching effective birth control in developing countries. I myself served on the Planned Parenthood board as a student and worked my tail off for the right to end unwanted pregnancies. Make Every Child A Wanted Child was our slogan. The irony of the Gen Xers now saying there are not enough of them to support us in our old age is sickening to me. We paid into Social Security, and paid plenty, we have gone along with the increased age of retirement, as well as planned what we could with 401K and IRA accounts, even as the costs of housing and education for our children skyrocketed.

But more than this, we have also been the prime movers in the environmental movement. Our priority has always been to save the very WORLD!! When my daughter was small we went to so many Save the ____ {whales, dolphins, pupfish, rainforests, biosphere...} events and raised money by bake sales and walks/runs, and sold each other every damn thing that came along for fundraisers because the schools (especially here in California after Prop 13) were not funded that she found a t-shirt that said, "Save the Chocolate Mousse!" and wore it out as the family joke for all of Mom's "causes."

So it's not like we have been sitting around doing nothing. :hurts:

Whew! Been wanting to say that for a long time.

Ma

[Cleita]

61. Yes, thanks for adding to this.

There were almost zero environmental laws before the boomers came along. Industries were allowed to exploit and pollute as the price of prosperity with almost no regulation. When I was growing up in So. California, the smog was so bad on some days, you couldn't see across the street.

[Name removed]

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[Eloriel]

48. Exactly

"My generation isn't doing its share, therefore YOUR generation has to get your tired old bones busy so we don't have to suffer, but we'll frame it as so YOU don't have to suffer."

Amazing, isn't it?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

43. Several points

1.) You are telling mostly the wrong people.

2.) Your generation was the one that has no memory before Reagan and use a lot of the verbiage that was born of the Reagan era without really questioning what you are saying when you use those catch phrases.

3.) Social Security WAS solvent when Clinton left office and the "CRISIS" was manageable.

4.) It's EVERYONE's responsibility to make sure America's educational system is as strong as its prison system which leads to a stronger more critically thinking electorate.

5.) Your thread is nothing more than a sophomoric rant that could just as easily been lost in the thread you posted it in.

6.) What's YOUR solution?

[Yupster]

50. Clinton was the one

who should have fought thesocial security battle.

We all know the cap neeeds to be raised. We mostly all know the age will go up again.

Who was in a better position than Clinton in his second term to lead that fight?

He punted, and it's a shame.

[barb162]

52. Clinton could not

possibly have done that. The GOP ran both houses of Congress and they were all ready to murder him every time he moved.

[Yupster]

57. Better he should not propose anything then

I guess.

[barb162]

58. To me there was nothing for Clinton to propose

as he left office with SS being actuarally sound.

[Rose Siding]

45. SS is a liberal program, born of compassion, not greed

If you pay close attention to economic news, you'll find that SS is solvent, providing Bush doesn't give it all away to the wealthy or borrow it to spend on wars. Medicare/healthcare will be your challenge. I hope you're up to it!

Pre-Bush, I was way more down on boomers. And there have been failures, but now, as he de-constructs so many hard won protections for the public on all levels, I see how much worse it could have been all along.

The promise of being self-supporting in our old age was an attempt not to burden our children, just as we were motivated to care for existing elderly. If that's our legacy, I can live with that. Will you be able to live with yours?

(you're welcome!)

[barb162]

47. SS can easily be funded properly

if we quit doing things like pissing away trillions of bucks on illogical wars, giving tax breaks to the millionaires, etc.

[Kanary]

54. Gotta love it when some young (blank) blames the victim

You don't have to "give a shit" about anyone.

Many of us see your generation as just that.

bye now......

[barb162]

59. you are buying into the Bush BS

SS is actuarally SOUND and doesn't need fixing. That it does need fixing is a HUGE GOP lie.

[nightperson]

62. This thread got me to Google a bit

and I found this spray of hate speech aimed at my loosely defined minority group. :cry: }( :cry:

[mtnester]

63. Here is a novel idea on fixing the problem...

STOP FUCKING SPENDING IT ON ANYTHING IT WAS NOT INTENDED FOR!

Until I see a federal law passed that says you cannot raid this fund for anything else, I will take no politician seriously on the matter. Whether you have a D, R or I next to your name does not matter to me. It is NOT a slush fund, but has been pissed away as one.

And don't even get me started on privatization. The only thing that private anything is for is profit, and guess what...no profit, the doors close. Worst idea ever.

[Yupster]

66. But if the trust fund surplus is not

pissed away, then what to do with it?

You can't keep it in gold bars under the president's desk.

You have to allow it to be invested outside of the government in cd's or something.

As long as it stays in the government it will be spent, regardless of any rhetorical nonsense of a lock box with IOU's in it.

On edit, the system is only prjected to remain in cash flow surplus for another 14 years or so, so what to do with the surplus will work itself out soon enough. There won't be any to worry about.

[OHswingvoter]

65. Can someone detail

out Kerry's plan to save Social Security?

I remember Gore's plan (which was pretty good) and I am familiar with Bushes plan (we had a nearly 200 post thread last week discussing privitization of Social security) But I have heard NOTHING about what Kerry plans to do. I am voting for him regardless. But I definitely want to know. This is something I can use to sell other people and to give me hope.

Thanks.

[Yupster]

67. Remind me

What was pretty good about Gore's plan.

All I remember was his talk of a lock box which was meaningless.

Whether an IOU exists on paper, or is placed in a lock box doesn't make a whole lot of difference if the government doesn't have the money to make good on the IOU.

On edit, I have not heard Kerry propose any changes in social security. Anyone know his plan?

[OHswingvoter]

68. OK I guess you are right,

the stuff about the lock box sounded good to me at the time I thought it meant he wouldn't touch the money and that it would be there for folks when they needed it which was good. But there were no specifics, just politician talk.

I'm glad I have met you, because you get right to the heart of things. I am reading the financial books and have been working on a budget since we talked before. I liked your explaination on privitization in the other thread.

But everyone says that Kerry has the right plan on Social Security and I have no idea what it is? Same thing with a couple of other issues. I am going to vote for him regardless, but I want to educate myself. These things are going to be very important to voters. I am surprised that he did not lay out a plan for Social Security at the convention. I listened to his speech, did I just miss it completely?

(same with his policy on several other things--earlier today I asked people what has kerry said about immigration and no one knew? If us Democrats don't know the positions, how can we sell them to other people?)