Comeback to Swiftboat question

[TowelBoy]

I used to be a republican, and I still have many republican friends, and one of them asked me a question I couldn't figure out how to refute, but I'm sure there's some way...

he said why shouldn't the Swiftliars (of course he didn't call them that!) be allowed to publish their books and air their ads. He said he didn't agree with Fahrenheit 9/11 (he saw it) and he doesn't agree with a ton of other left wing publications, but he's never said they didn't have a right to have their say.

So his question is why should Bush have to denounce the swifties when Kerry was never told to denounce any of the attack ads against Bush.

And he also said it was hypocritical to say that the Swiftie books should not be allowed to be sold while allowing all the left wing books to be sold.

So I don't know what to say :/

Any help would be GREAT!

Thank you

I think I should buy a Kerry shirt for "back to school," because that would be awesome :D It would confuse everyone, too, because I used to be like one in 4 conservatives there! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. Really simple

What the Swift Boat Liars said isn't just a matter of opinion. It is out and out LIES, which can be refuted with FACTS. Viet Nam Vets Against War is a good place to find a refutation of each of their claims, if your friends insist on that.

Ask them to list the LIES (proven, and with citations) they can list from F 911. You'll find that they stammer and try and change the subject.

[EstimatedProphet]

3. Exactly

And because of the fact that they are lies, and are designed to attack Kerry's character, the statements are slander. They are therefore illegal.

[TowelBoy]

5. He sent me to that 56 deceits in F9/11 site once...

and I heard there is a retort to that, but I couldn't find it.

And one thing he pointed out was that the part scene in the beginning was from before the election, and I didn't know how to refute that... so any links would be hot... thank you.

And I'm sorry to be bugging you, I just really think I can convince him, because he's more moderate than conservative, he just buys into a lot of the propaganda.

[wwwunspunmediaorg]

14. actually..

apparently Michael Moore is offering a reward for anyone that can find a single lie in his movie. No one has claimed it. Hmmm...

http://www.michaelmoore.com has a statement by statement analysis of everything he said backed up by news articles.

[NMDemDist2]

19. here it is and the other thing is, Kerry has called for untrue ads to be

pulled off the air. He specifically asked for MoveOn to pull the Bush "deserter" ad

so your friend is wrong (again)

http://www.michaelmoore.com/warroom/f911notes/

[David Dunham]

2. The swift boat jerks are lieing and that's defamation.

Their lies make them very vulnerable to being sued by Kerry, Rassman, etc.

[TowelBoy]

7. That's right, I didn't think about it like that

Thank you :D

[KC21304]

4. I agree. Bush should say I'll quit lying about you if you'll

quit telling the truth about me. :silly:

Ever hear of the book Fortunate Son ?

[KC21304]

6. You may be wrong about one thing, I don't think you are

confusing too many people.

[TowelBoy]

8. Touche!

And yeah, I'm changing this one because I accidentally double posted :D *embarassed*

[TowelBoy]

9. VERY TRUE!

I'm sure many of my classmates would give a sharp sigh of relief... I was the #1 republican agitator...

though I will miss the days of having everybody disagree with me...

dammit, what the hell was I thinking :D

[TNMOM]

10. challenge your friend to give an example of a "lie" in F911

He won't be able to think of one. And that's the difference between F911 and swiftliars.

We can disagree on our reaction to the facts -- we don't think it was a good idea to go into Iraq for WMD when there was little evidence of their existence there and they (your friends) think that it was a grand idea. But it's still a fact that no WMDs were FOUND. And that Chimp lied about it to the American people.

Dude, you don't have to agree with Michael Moore -- but you can't say he made things up. He's got them on camera, lies spewing forth from their own mouths.

[TowelBoy]

12. The argument was that he "twisted" the truth

But then I asked him how the woman who lost her son was "twisting" the truth and he didn't have a response...

even though that scene is really sad, and I wish I didn't have to bring it up, but yeah... that really shut him up

[TNMOM]

17. Good for you. eom.

[calimary]

20. Besides, he had a small army of fact checkers going over everything

in the film before its release. I believe they were from The New Yorker magazine.

Many of his harshest critics never bothered to see the film to know what they're criticizing.

[The_Casual_Observer]

11. "So I don't know what to say "

Say I am a freeper posting on DU.

[TowelBoy]

16. Yup...

and I'd watch it, because I'm in cahoots with Bush, and we know where you live... *LAUGH* *CACKLE* *EVIL SNORT*

[Nite Owl]

13. Free speech does not give anyone the

right to yell "Fire" in a theatre because they feel like it. Just because they want to say something bad about Kerry if it is a lie they have no right under the first amendment to do so. What is a lie in what Michael Moore has said? Truth hurts sometimes.

[pbg]

15. In the words of Ross Perot, "It's very simple, really."

There's nothing wrong with attack ads.
Just lies.
The Swift Boat Liars
a) have no documentary evidence. None.
b) were not there, for the most part;
and those that were
c) have their stories contradicted by the eyewitnesses.
d) have changed their stories between then and now.

Call him 'Hanoi John' all you want. Call him a traitor for protesting the war. Attack him on his positions. Scream and rant and rave. (We do.) Just tell the truth.

[alcuno]

18. Who says the swiftliars can't publish their book? I think that what the

Kerry campaign was saying to people was that it is packed full of lies. Publish it knowing that. Also, television stations have a responsibility to exhibit restraint when it comes to feeding lies to the public.

Michael Moore's trailer showed Bush talking. So did the second swiftvet ad. No problem there.

However, the first ad is the problem since it contained people who were lying. For example, one of the guys says that he knows John Kerry lied to get his medals. How does he "know?" In an interview later, he says someone else told him that and he's just repeating it. It's later contradicted by multiple sources and documentary evidence.

The ads against Bush - what are the lies? Seriously. What are they? Is it a lie to say that under * there are more uninsured than ever before? That's not a lie. The * campaign may have a reponse to it, but at face value, it's simply a fact.

[wurzel]

21. Freedom of speech IS NOT freedom to lie!!

[baldguy]

22. Tell him that you're going to write a letter to his boss.

Saying that he embezzled a total of $350,000 from his last two employers. You have 30 sworn affidavits that back up your claim.

You'll write another letter to his wife saying that he has on-going affairs with three different women. You have the women confessing on video tape, along with witnesses confirming the allegations.

Of course, none of your allegations are true so there's no actual physical evidence to support them. Evan so, I'm sure that his boss and his wife would have some questions for him after they received the letters.

Freedom of speech is not an absolute right. If a person lies, that is called defamation and that person can be sued.

[IggleDoer]

23. They demean everyone in the military, now or in the past.

The Swift Faries lies tell our current brave soldiers in war zones that no act of heroism is above their disrespect later, if they don't agree with your political views. So why should they bother being heroes of heroes are being besmirched (McCain, Cleland, now Kerry).

[Moderator]

24. Locking.....

The author is no longer with us.



DU Moderator