Protest Warrior (scum)

[sithknight]

Well, i just checked out the "protestwarrior.com" website and I feel a bit queasy. This is what we're facing: neo-cons in their pupa stage. It's patently obvious to me that they're nothing more than a bunch of jingoistic cowards who equate rallying around the flag with patriotism. I checked out their photo gallery and wasn't a bit suprised to discover they're all snotty white kids who are all look old enough (and young enough) to enlist in the military but for some strange reason they haven't.

We've got to start thinking of a viable strategy to deal with these people. They're obviously going to show up to "counter protest" any protest which the left presents, so perhaps we should begin to anticipate this. Their whole plan of attack is to throw up snide signs that use irony to mitigate the message of a protest.

So, perhaps we should turn that back against them and create 'counter-counter-protester' signs. We could then whip them out when these cowards show, and have our operatives move in on them and stand by. The important thing is we can't let them provoke us into giving them the beating they so richly deserve. While it certainly would be satisfying, they will then turn that against us in the media to portray the anti-war movement as a bunch of crazies.

So, please exercise physical restraint this week and don't beat the crap out of them when they show at a protest. I would also encourage you all to exercise your best judgement should you run into one of them in a bar: at the very least don't let yourself get sucked into a fight in such a way that your actions could be associated with the anti-Bush rallies...and remember to punch with your fixed knuckles, not the floating ones.

peace, love, and happiness by any means neccessary.

[salinen]

1. "neo-cons in their pupa stage"

I think you'll be a hit here. Welcome.

[are_we_united_yet]

2. "and remember to punch with your fixed knuckles, not the floating ones.."

Welcome to DU and thanks for the tip (is that why my hand is broken so much? :evilgrin: )

[Lefty48197]

3. Here's a film clip of what I'd like to do to them:

Sorry about the Olay commercial that precedes the film.

http://www.king5.com/cgi-bin/bi/video/wmPlayer.pl?title=www.king5.com/ki_082704WAprotesterpunched.wmv

[sithknight]

7. in this we see the lesson

hmm...fairly satisfying though I wish I could hear what the Bush guy was saying before he gets clocked. However, the moral of the story is clear: if you throw the first punch you'll probably get arrested and the media will use it to show that Kerry supporters are all crazed.

[Lefty48197]

44. He was saying:

FOUR MORE YEARS of stealing money out of your pocket. What are you gonna do about it?

[JohnnyRingo]

10. Hey Thanx !! ...I've been wanting to see that since I heard about it.

That looked like it hurt

I bet he avoids Kerry supporters for a while. hahaha

[LeftyChristian]

58. Pathetic

What does this accomplish? Other than prtraying the protestors as violent and intolerant of everyone's free speech.

And this is what you want to do to them? Brilliant.

[JohnnyRingo]

4. uhhh, yeah..... Welcome to DU

Are you an ex-special forces squad leader? I'm glad you're on our side. LOL

[jdj]

64. That is my favorite picture of all time (so far)

thankya thankya thankya

[ellie]

5. How about handing out

enlistment forms and telling them to put their money where their mouths are? I would also take a megaphone and announce to the crowd that these pro-war people aren't pro enough to actually want to go fight it. I wish I was able to go to NYC for the protests.

[sithknight]

9. solid

That's a great idea! I love it! here's a link to their site where I've basically asked the same question. Funny how their site seems to mirror this one in format.

http://forum.protestwarrior.com/viewtopic.php?p=8024195#8024195

[devilgrrl]

6. Go listen to on 'Unfiltered' - your eyes will roll out of their sockets

http://www.airamericaplace.com/archive.php?mode=display&id=461

[Keirsey]

8. consider this

chloroform is nonviolent

[stavka]

11. ...I'd piss in their soup.

[greblc]

12. I love these guy's!

They are so easy to beat up on. I used to recruit for the Marine Corps (18 yrs ago. ) Recruiters love to go after the Patriotic frat boy types and hound the sh*t
out of them. I encourage anyone who is plagued by Neo-Cons of Draft age or Neo-Cons with Draft age Children to play the " Why haven't you enlisted?"
Have your Children considered enlisting?" or " Why didn't you Serve?" card. Then make certain a Recruiter gets there contact information. Watch the medical excuses fly. I worked in a Cube Farm full of Neo-Cons and I never knew so many gimps who could play Softball.<;-)>

Semper Fi

[sithknight]

13. You speak with wisdom grasshopper...

This is a response from a chickenhawk at the ProtestWarrior forum page where I am politely antagonizing them:

"I am in full support of the war and tried to join. However, after a blood pressure pulse rate rate exam I was told I couldn't join as I had tachycardia(sp?). Afterward I was mad so I went to the doctor (3 different ones over a week period) I was told we can find nothing wrong with you after EKGs and other such tests. I went back with EKG readouts but to no avail they did the same heart rate pulse rate exam and said the same thing they disqualified me. I may not be bale to be with the soldiers on the ground but I do what I can stateside to support them." aww poor guy


Hell, I hate this war but I feel bad about not enlisting because my friends are out there right now. I've got medical excuses too (bum shoulders that dislocate at the drop of a hat 14+ times!).

I just pray that i'm doing enough back here as a DA keeping their families safe from criminals to make up for it in the karmic long run.

[greblc]

15. Kudos to you...

for wanting to and trying to enlist. It broke my heart to find someone who
wanted to become a Marine would never have the chance.

Don't let any Chicken Hawk off the hook with out asking one of the three questions I posted.

[sithknight]

16. clarity

that post from the protest warrior page isn't mine. It's one of them. I'll tweak my prior posting to make that clear.

He did spell tachycardia right. Here's a snip from the U of Mich Med Center site. "Tachycardia may be triggered by conditions such as heart disease, an overactive thyroid gland, fever, or by drinking alcohol or caffeinated beverages."

If you check out this guy's picture, you can be pretty sure it's heart disease since he looks about 50pounds overweight.

[greblc]

18. My bust...

One of the come backs Recruiters use to an objection is " Well you must know someone ( A like minded friend or family member) who is intrested in enlisting?" Interject some pitty on their "Medical" situation. Neo-Cons hate pitty. It's tough to accept pitty when your a "Self Made Man" as so many Neo-Cons are.

[sffreeways]

50. 50 pounds overweight

The Marines cure that in about 6 weeks. He's lying I'd bet. His heart rate is up because he doesn't want the recruiter to know he's shitting his pants.

[Cascadian]

39. Nice of you to join our side.

We need more military and ex-military people like yourself to show how the Bushites are such morons and how destructive they are and what chickenhawks they are. Keep fighting the good fight and bring more "Bands of Brothers and Sisters" on board. It is you guys who are very important to spread the message.


John

[Chovexani]

14. There was one PW jackass at the march today

Dumb looking mo'fo...hehe. People heckled him and then he disappeared. :P

[sithknight]

17. Final Score:

DU 1 / PW 0

That's right, I consider my little stint on their neo-con blog to be a victory. I held my ground, knowing full well that I wouldn't convince anyone, and railed into them with logic. In the end, they didn't have anything left to offer so I bailed after giving ample time for any other rebuttal they might have had.

Victory is mine!

http://forum.protestwarrior.com/viewtopic.php?t=31863&start=15

[TryingToWarnYou]

56. LOL.. read this response..

If your against the war why dont u go over there and try to stop the war or fight for the enemy?

I think he is part of the PW braintrust.

[jlstsi]

69. Funny guy... :-)

What are you talking about? You got spanked over there. Please, review the thread you linked in your post.

[sithknight]

73. Spanked?

Please, I was doing just fine and then they stopped responding. I do have a life and wasn't going to hang out there all night. Besides, they've shut down the open forum access now so I must have scared them.

[jlstsi]

74. They stopped responding?

http://forum.protestwarrior.com/viewtopic.php?t=31863

Looks pretty good to me for a forum that has been shut down...

[sithknight]

75. Yes,

they stopped that evening. If you check the time of my last post over there (1:51) and compare it with my post immediately prior (12:54) you'll see that I waited nearly an hour for those fools to reply and they didn't. Subsequently the admin over there shut down my access so I have been unable to throw up any more posts. But I've noticed the thread has doubled in size since I left so I must have touched a nerve.

[SeattleJazz]

19. Hold the phone!

I find it highly hypocritical that any of you would chuckle at violence inflicted on one American by another, simply for the sake of political differences. Would you so easily excuse a Bush supporter if he hauled off and socked it to a Kerry fan? I think not. You'd be howling mad. You'd use it to condemn all Bush supporters as violent neanderthals. But since it was a Kerry supporter socking it to a Bush fan, it's okay?

My hypocrite meter is going off the scale. :-(

As for what the former Marine recruiter said, I'll chime in as an Army Reservist and state that not all of those "chicken hawk" kids are unwilling to serve. I'm 30 and went through IADT at Fort Jackson last year, and there were a heck of a lot of those very same "chicken hawk" kids going through training right beside me. Yes, some of these kid conservatives showing up to counter-protest are all bark and no bite. But some of them are in Iraq right now, too, walking the talk. Unless you yourself have served, be careful about who you call a "chicken hawk".

"Peace, love, and hapiness" will not be attained by delighting in violence against those with whom we disagree.

[sithknight]

20. picking up the phone

Read my post: I specifically told people to be chill and not throw punches.

No chickenhawk is sitting in Iraq right now because, by definition, their service means they ain't chicken.

Do I delight in watching a Bush supporter get hit? a bit, because I'm tired of the sterotype that all liberals are wimps. The whole reason I reminded people which knuckles to use was because of that sterotype and I don't want our people to be afraid to stand up for what they believe in.

Free speech means that the government can't react and punish you for what you say. It doesn't mean that I've got to sit by and let some neo-con spout whatever he wants without reaction.

I use my words, not my fist. But if someone brings it, then i'm ready to defend myself. It's that simple.

The rehtoric that the PW spouts is very reminicent of 1930's Germany. I've studied history, i've not forgotten it's lessons. I'll be one of the first ones on the barricade with a rifle in my hand if these neo-facist wack jobs try to steal my country away at the barrel of a gun.

Am I advocating violence? No, I am not. Am I a pacifist? No, I am not. That Bushie who got punched: we don't know what he said. The guy who punched him: committed a crime, and will be found guilty. The simple fact is that if you watch the video he obviously lost his cool and just lashed out in an instant. For all you know the words immediately preceding the punch were "yeah man, stick him with the knife".

Don't call me a hypocrite until you know who I am. I am not a hippie pacificst and I'm not the type of person to walk away from a fight or say that "violence is never the answer". Like I referenced earlier: Germany, 1930's, stand your ground and never let it happen again.

Besides, there's a huge difference between all out war and a simple fight.

[SeattleJazz]

24. sithknight

For the record, I was not referring to you as much as I was referring to some of the others who have posted on this thread.

Obviously, the liberals = wimps cliche is just that: cliche.

Sort of like "chicken hawks".

:)

As for the Germany 1930's comparison... I'm one of those who believe that this current election cycle has already endured way too much hyperbole. Those who would portray the Left as being out of touch with reality gain a lot of traction every time anyone on the Left talks about Bush being as bad or the same as Hitler, or starts equating post-9/11 America with Nazi Germany. America in the 21st century is not, and never could be, a 1930's Germany. We're way too big, too diverse, and there are too many safeguards against a single man seizing absolute power, ala Napoleon. Any sitting President who tried to stay in the Oval Office beyond 8 years, or in spite of an election that did not go his way, would be kindly escorted out of office by those very same Secret Service folk who protected him while in office. Meanwhile, the media and the public would laugh him all the way into obscurity.

I just think it's unfortunate that at the same time the far right talks in spooky terms of black helicopters and One World Government, the far left indulges in Nazi comparisons and applies the word "fascism" where it is clearly not warranted. If fascism had really descended upon us, Democratic Underground would not exist, nor would the police stand calmly by as almost half a million protestors marched through America's largest city decrying and savaging the sitting President and his political party. These are, clearly, not the signs of a country taken over by an autocracy. So the Nazi talk seems, at best, needlessly extreme to me.

[sithknight]

26. no hyperbole

No, I do not believe it is hyperbole to note the similarity in rehtoric between nazi speak and the AnnCoulteresque slurr the far right slings at us. Calling anyone who dissents a traitor, equating liberalism with treason, singling out America as the true pure land while the rest of the world is somehow lesser or evil. These things flat out smack of nazi propaganda.

I've not compared Bush to Hitler. Not once. I used the 1930's example to suggest that we must remain ever vigilant to secure our liberty. There is a good reason why the second amendment exists. The assault on our liberty will not be as it was during the twentith century, but rather some other form. Pax Americana can only last for so long, but the ideals upon which our nation were founded may very well be eternal.

I suggest you read "The Handmaids Tale" to gain some insight into the depths of my fears. I'm a non-christian taoist listening to profoundly disturbing hate speak coming from the right. The christian majority will soon be no more, as the pluralistic society that we live expands. I worry that those in power (members of said majority) may react...poorly to such a turn. In the spasams of the abortion "debate" we've already seen them take to the gun and bomb to wage their case.

As for fascism: it wears many disguises and is alive&well in this country. The integration of the corporate and the goverment is all but absolute with the current Haliburton situation. I quote Thomas DiLorenzo:
"When most people hear the word "fascism" they naturally think of its ugly racism and anti-Semitism as practiced by the totalitarian regimes of Mussolini and Hitler. But there was also an economic policy component of fascism, known in Europe during the 1920s and '30s as "corporatism," that was an essential ingredient of economic totalitarianism as practiced by Mussolini and Hitler. So- called corporatism was adopted in Italy and Germany during the 1930s and was held up as a "model" by quite a few intellectuals and policy makers in the United States and Europe. A version of economic fascism was in fact adopted in the United States in the 1930s and survives to this day. In the United States these policies were not called "fascism" but "planned capitalism." The word fascism may no longer be politically acceptable, but its synonym "industrial policy" is as popular as ever.
...

Planned industrial "harmony." Another keystone of Italian corporatism was the idea that the government's interventions in the economy should not be conducted on an ad hoc basis, but should be "coordinated" by some kind of central planning board. Government intervention in Italy was "too diverse, varied, contrasting. There has been disorganic . . . intervention, case by case, as the need arises," Mussolini complained in 1935. Fascism would correct this by directing the economy toward "certain fixed objectives" and would "introduce order in the economic field." Corporatist planning, according to Mussolini adviser Fausto Pitigliani, would give government intervention in the Italian economy a certain "unity of aim," as defined by the government planners.

These exact sentiments were expressed by Robert Reich (current U.S. Secretary of Labor) and Ira Magaziner (current federal government's health care reform "Czar") in their book Minding America's Business. In order to counteract the "untidy marketplace," an interventionist industrial policy "must strive to integrate the full range of targeted government policies-procurement, research and development, trade, antitrust, tax credits, and subsidies-into a coherent strategy . . . ."

http://www.banned-books.com/truth-seeker/1994archive/121_3/ts213l.html

[SeattleJazz]

28. I've read Atwood's book

Seen the movie, too.

I found both of them to be semi-paranoid and alarmist.

Though I am LDS as well, and to this day members of my faith struggle to gain acceptance from those in other American Christian groups, even though our freaking title starts with "The church of JESUS CHRIST..." So I can understand why a Taoist living in America might be worried that the evangelicals are taking over, ready to purge the land of unwanted types. In the case of us Latter Day Saints, that kind of thing is not just theory, it really happened to us in the 1800's. Even so, the America that drove out the Mormons in the 1800's is not the America that exists now. Just as the America that once condoned and embraced slavery no longer exists. Yes, the traces of racism and bigotry linger on, but there is no way America is returning to slavery. I give our population credit for maturing enough to not repeat past mistakes, whether they happened here at home, or in some other nation abroad.

Regarding the marriage of government with big business, historically, we've had it much, much worse in America than we have it now. In the 1800's the "barons" of the business world exercised unhindered influence, with almost nobody standing in their way. Today we've got a sizeable flotilla of well-funded consumer rights groups and government watchdogs and whistle-blowers and Nader-types eager and willing to see the business/government love affair brought to its knees. And I've not even mentioned reporters, who seek corporate scandal like sharks seeking a hint of blood on the ocean currents.

Yes, there is far too much business influence in government and corruption oozing from both sides. But based on what you've written I get the sense that you'd be happier seeing the U.S. given over totally to a socialist model, and I can't say I'd be happy with that. I don't believe socialism is a viable long-term economic system, nor is it any less susceptible to corruption and graft, and the current social and economic troubles we're seeing in Europe seem to support my suspicions.

[sithknight]

38. Listen up

History repeats itself. We've managed to find ourselves once again in a war premised on lies (gulf of tonkin). The railroad barons and monopolies were eventually busted up at the outset of the century, but once more they have solidfied their power. The legacy of the 1800's isn't gone, it is alive and well in Santa Clara v. Souther Pacific, granting "personhood" to a corporate entity.

I'm not going to sit on my hands and let anyone take my country away from me or oppress anyone in my name. Perhaps we have learned something from our past, but you try explaining that to all the innocent arab citizens we rounded up after 9/11. Or explain that to my Kuwaiti friend's little brother who's facing a federal felony rap for having a fake id (you know, so he can go drink in bars like every other other underage college student). We can only preserve liberty by being ever vigilant.

I've see the insanity of evangalicals all my life. All these bible beaters with high and mighty words, but with actions that leave the least of us out in the cold. "god's will" I've watched groups like the Oregon Citizen's Alliance use the gospel to spread hate mongering throughout my state, trying to legislate discrimination for homosexuals because "this is a christian country". Well it isn't. It never was. The founding fathers were an odd bunch, but more than anything they were secular humanist deist christians who sought to protect religion from the state as much as to protect the state from religion.

The "Handmaids Tale" is apocolyptic sci-fi. Of course it is "alarmist" but I hear the ring of truth in the modern day rethoric which you seem to easily discount from your LDS perspective. I don't feel persecuted, but I see the fires of persecution coming from those who loudly proclaim their beliefs, without any understanding of the text. It always pains me that I've read more christian theology than most christians.

Don't call me a socialist without support. This is the second time you've thrown out lables without cause and it ain't right. If you want to assert that capitalism is the best model for liberty and democracy, then fine; we're not living in a capitalist society despite what you think. We have heavily subsidized the corporate behomth and given up on the free market as a model.

But I won't let you get away with rightie propaganda: "the current social and economic troubles we're seeing in Europe seem to support my suspicions." what are you talking about? last time I checked the Euro was kicking the crap out of the dollar, not to mention the British pound.

Finally, what is that other post you made about "removing Saddam"? Moderator, watch this guy cause something smells funny. But I'll bite: yes, removing a brutal dictator from Iraq was overall good for the people. But that's NOT why we went in there. We went in because of the WMD remember? If you want the US to adopt a foreign policy of humanitarian intervention, of fighting wars against people like Saddam and Milosevic then I'm all for it. But our leaders had better tell us why we're going in and not come up with it after the fact.

The neo-cons don't believe in humanitarian war. They only preach it to obscure their true motives.

Operation
Iraqi
Liberation

[Solon]

41. Hey SJ...

Check my sig line, these same people, or their descendants are in power now, this includes the scions of Prescott Bush, the Dulles brothers and a few other industrialists whose corporations still hold a large amount of power today. You know, like the traitors Du Pont and Morgan Families, who conspired to overthrow Roosevelt in 1933-34, violently if neccessary, to install a fascist regime in this country. Hell, Bush the first had to fire many from his staff in 1988 because they were bona fide NAZIS of the Third Reich, oddly enough he hired many back after he won that election.

[jdj]

66. you're so right, and it's so sickening.

the offspring thing, I mean.

That's what drives them, the blood entitlement thing, the knowing one day they could go from being "boy" to being Foghorn Leghorn himself, and that's why they hate us (the labor class, with all it's subdivisions) because we are the only thing that stands in their way.

The postor seems to be singing a lullaby of how bad it was and how great it is now. There is a reason the are called LULLabies, and the most famous one of all is:

Rockaby baby/In the treetop/when the wind blows(um, it's blowing)/the cradle will rock (rocking confirmed)/when the bow breaks (significant fissures reported in various locations)/the cradle will fall(leaning precariously)/Down will come baby/cradle and all...

so assuming no one's down there ready to catch the baby, when do we wake up and stop the process before the bow breaks. I ain't waiting 'til my ass hits the ground...

[greblc]

22. A "Chicken Hawk" is...

Someone who who bangs the war drum but refuses to serve.
Sorry , you didn't serve with a Chicken Hawk.

If you've worn the uniform and bang the war drum your a just a "Hawk"

It's political debate, not violence. The delight comes from exposing the hypocracy of those whom we dissagree with.

I.e. wont enlist but thinks we should fight preemptive wars. "Chicken Hawks."

Welcome to DU

[drdtroit]

23. Welcome to DU grebic

you got good talk on your face! :hi:

[SeattleJazz]

25. Hey greblc

How long were you in? Recruiting is the toughest job in the military IMHO. I've known NCO's who have done time as Drill Sergeants and recruiters, and without fail, they have stated that recruiting was far tougher, with more pressure.

As for exposing hypocrisy, I think the Left and the Right have experienced an overabundance of "chicken" syndrome these past few years. Of course my outlook is skewed because of where I live. I still have a bad taste in my mouth from the Seattle WTO, when the protests lost all coherency thanks to the myriad bandwagoners and Beavis & Butthead types who were in it for the vandalism, not the message. IMHO a helluva of a lot of those folk were "chickens", taking the week off from their corporate yuppie jobs so they could go down and partake in protests against corporate this and Big Money that. Then they were all back at work the next week, sipping their lattes and pulling down six figures while the city picked up the tab and the pieces. :eyes:

Sorry. I am on my own tangent. How long were you active in the Corps?

[greblc]

49. I started out a Reservist...

as a Combat Engineer. I then went active duty for 2-1/2 years with the local recruiting command. I ended my enlistment after 4yrs. I was in the IRR (inactive Ready Reserve) for 18 months and was recalled to active service for the Gulf War in "91". I was sent to Camp Pendleton, CA spent 2 months there. That War ended quickly. Only to be continued. Every time I hear a Marine has died
I feel a sense of guilt that if we had to take Iraq we Gulf war Marines should have done it in "91" when we were there with our European Allies. But there is never a good time for war. I didn't like it then then I don't like it now. The politics of the Mid East are filled with scandal and difficult to get behind.

Recruiting vs. Drill Field?

Both are demanding in different ways.

Personally I think you have to be hard as nails and a little F'd in the head to choose the Drill Field. So that qualifies about 80% of the Marine Corps.
Quite Simply they're Sadists. To no fault. They have to be, they are Training humans to kill. Want to understand USMC boot camp watch the 1st half of Stanley Kubrick's Full Metal Jacket. Skip the second half. Beatings ,Suicide & the like. This stuff happens its just not in the Recruiting Pamphlet.

There has never been a movie about Recruiting. ( But I do have Stories worthy of a script) Long Hours, Rejection,Quotas and Boredom. Failed Marriages , Alcoholism, Mental and Physical abuse. Bored Marines in small offices are a Bad thing.

[DrWeird]

29. The difference is that we're right and they're wrong.

There's very few circumstances where that can be said, but this is one of them.

I didn't have a problem with Sherman's March to the Sea. I didn't have a problem with us beating the shit out of the Nazis. The least these Bush-supporting baby-killers deserve is a nice knuckle-sandwich.

[SeattleJazz]

31. Should Hussein have been left in power?

Seems he killed a few babies along the way.

I'm of the opinion that an otherwise laudable achievement (the removal of a bloody tyrant) has been overlooked by a Left which is unhealthily obsessed with the man on whose watch the achievement was attained.

Hate Bush, fine. He is one man. But the removal of Hussein... I just can't see how any real liberal can state, truthfully, that the removal of Hussein and the destruction of the baathist power base was not a good thing. Especially since we failed to make it happen in 1991, when we'd have been three times as justified, and Hussein spent the next dozen years hording food and medicine in warehouses while his people starved and went sick.

Again, hate Bush all you want, but it wasn't just Republicans who authorized the war, and it hasn't just been Republicans who have spoken out in favor of taking Hussein out.

Regarding Sherman's march to the sea and beating up the Nazis, how many Southern babies died as a result of Sherman's razed-earth battle tactics, or the wholesale destruction of German cities by Allied bombers?

Keep in mind, I also have no problem with either Sherman's March or the end-game in Germany in 1944-45, but if we're going to say the ends justify the means for one case, we have to agree to this in other cases as well. And, to be honest, I think our guys in Iraq have gone out of their way to avoid civilian deaths, to a degree never before seen in American warfare. And yet, the baby-killer slander lives on...

:eyes:

[DrWeird]

33. Tell it to this kid.

Supporters like you are directly responsible, and the moral equivalent of people who would fly planes into office buildings.

[sithknight]

40. still at it?!

Baby killer slander? What do you call carpet bombing?

You don't have a problem with Sherman's march to the sea? You clearly are 1)not a southerner and 2)haven't got even a thin grasp upon history.

Oh, and #4 is just plain stupid. That's like saying it is clear that modern day republicans are abolitionist because the party was a during the nineteenth century.

[greblc]

53. Why ...

Now?
with out our allies

with out the UN

with out inspections

with out proper Troop Strength

with out proper equipment

with out Tax increases

As the "Rules of War" apply this war is NOT a "Just War" (look it up)

We've played by the rules for a long time. For good reason.

Then GWB.

[Bridget Burke]

55. Yes. The war is illegal.

Was Saddam a bad guy? Sure. Just one of several put into power by our government & later abandoned.

At the Nuremberg trials, the primary charge against the big Nazis (not the ones who were "following orders") was beginning an aggressive war. War crimes & crimes against humanity were secondary charges.

We didn't begin World War II. We didn't begin the Civil War.

[thebigidea]

43. so you don't even know what chickenhawk means, great.

[Lefty48197]

48. I'm all for punching. In fact, I support a new Civil War

I'm tired of the Reich wingers ruining my country, and I'm finally prepared to FIGHT to defend it. Isn't that what the Republicans wanted all along? Careful what you ask for...

[oasis]

21. Here's a poster: Draft protest warriors.

[MirrorAshes]

27. Wow. Their forums are terrifying.

Found this in a thread about how the left is destroying black families. These people are out of their freaking minds.

Prepare to be offended--

[SeattleJazz]

30. Line #4 is technically correct

As for the rest, all I can say is, the Democrats are not doing themselves any favors by trotting out another pair of Rich White Men as their Ticket Of Progress. At least in '84 there was Ferraro, a woman. That seemed like a step in a truly progressive direction. Of course, Reagan thrashed the Mondale/Ferraro ticket, and maybe the Dems have not had the courage to take another stab at it since then? Everything seems to revolve around pleasing the centrists and this gawdawful concept of "electability". What happened to saying damn the torpedoes and running on the merits of what your party truly stands for, instead of pandering to the centrists? Sometimes, centrists respect and will vote for a ticket which stands its ground, even if that ground is not centrally-located. Bush seems prepared to do just this, and we all might get four more years of him as a result.

And anothet thing, people can hate and loathe Condi or Colin, but the simple truth is they are still African Americans, and they are the freaking Secretary of State and National Security Advisor, and they function in these capacities under a Republican administration. Obama and Jackson/Sharpton do not an inclusive party make. After all, when Kerry is elected, will Obama or Sharpton or Jackson be Secretary of State, or National Security Advisor? Or will they remain as drawing room curiosities, which the Democrats trot out every four years as proof that they are the "black" party?

I say this as a Gore/Clinton voter who is ashamed of how Condi/Colin have been treated, simply because of their political affiliation. Two of America's brightest and most powerful African Americans, one of whom could easily be the Republican candidate for President in 2008, and all anyone can do is fling mud because they don't have the word DEMOCRAT attached to their names.

I am ranting. I'll save this for a different thread...

[pbeal]

32. if this was 1964 then you would be correct

This is 2004 All those democrats who voted against the 1964 Civil rights act and who are still alive are now republicans.

"People" don't hate and loath Condi and Colin because they are African American they hate and Loath them because they are incompetent, evil, lying, sycophants. "People" would hate and loath them if they were white.

[MirrorAshes]

35. I think you are a bit off-base...

This is a touchy subject, so I'm gonna try to be careful in my wording here...The point I'd like to make, though, is that the democratic party would surely look beyond race or sex should the right candidate arise. Should we put people on the ticket simply because they are not rich white males? I truly believe that Obama will be president one day, and I will vote for him with pride. Will it be because he is black? No, it will be because he is the right man for the job.

As for Condi and Colin, hey, its great that they have made it this far. Powell, I believe, has absolutely earned his place, though I, along with most of us, am quite dissapointed in his service under this presidency. In his heart, I think he is probably dissapointed with himself as well. Condi, on the other hand, has not shown me one single reason to believe that she was the best qualified person for the job she holds.

The democratic party, more than any other entity in this country, has been responsible for giving african-americans the oppurtunities they deserve to succeed in this country. Simply because we do not put an under-qualified person on the ticket to satiate those who assume it is expected of us does not mean we are in any way undermining the role of african-americans in the party.

[thebigidea]

42. so you're not ashamed at how Condi/Colin treated America?

You're not ashamed of Powell's performance with the vial at the UN?

You're not ashamed of Condi's "I believe the memo was titled Bin Laden determined to strike in US"?

If you want to praise Powell and Rice, go be a fucking Republican. Their skin color doesn't matter, their asanine policies and bootlicking behavior in the service of Bush/Cheney do.

"After all, when Kerry is elected, will Obama or Sharpton or Jackson be Secretary of State, or National Security Advisor?"

Obama will be Senator, remember? What will Alan Keyes be, I ask?

" Or will they remain as drawing room curiosities, which the Democrats trot out every four years as proof that they are the "black" party?"

When was Obama ever trotted out? Who has blacks Reps? What happened to J.C. Watts?

What a bunch of bullshit, you should be ashamed of yourself.

[minkyboodle]

51. FYI

next time you come to the forum you might want to try hide the Repub talking points a little bit better

[VolcanoJen]

34. Salon reports on Protest Warrior activities in NYC Sunday

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/08/30/sunday_protests/index1.html

Excerpt:

It was also a rebuke. A great many New Yorkers are profoundly insulted by Bush's decision to use their city -- whose cosmopolitan values he's treated with utter contempt -- to bolster his reelection bid. "Our city's tragedy is being used for propaganda," said Bradley McCormick, a 35-year-old from Spanish Harlem. "I'm upset about the insult to New York City. I think it's going to backfire."

In the run up to the convention, there were fears that the protests would backfire, that swing voters would see middle American delegates besieged by angry urban radicals and blame it all on the Democrats. Some had worried that undercover agent provocateurs would try to spur violence, but that didn't happen. Indeed, the provocateurs made no effort to disguise themselves.

Protest Warriors, a Texas-based, right-wing group whose members have crashed lefty demonstrations carrying mocking signs like "Communism has only killed 100 million people. Let's Give it Another Chance," sent a contingent to march into the crowd. "We're about to have some fun," said Sergio Kadinsky, a 20-year-old Protest Warrior from City College of New York. At first, to their evident frustration, they were ignored or indulged. "They have the right to be here, but they're jerks," shrugged McCormick.

Soon enough, though, a group of outraged anarchists saw what was going on, tied their bandanas around their faces, and charged, yelling, "Bullshit! Bullshit! Bullshit!" A brief fistfight ensued, during which several of the Protest Warriors' signs were broken. That was pretty much the extent of the day's violence.

[rumguy]

52. I like how they were outnumbered like 50,000 to one

They are a pathetic bunch. They were completely irrelevent yesterday.

[Cascadian]

36. Look...they went to protect Halliburton.

OMFG!!!! They actually went there to counter protest the people protesting Halliburton. They actually wanted to "protect" Hallburton! This is insane!!

Check it out!!!

http://hq.protestwarrior.com/?page=/featured/Dallas/halliburton_defense_force.php

Corporatist morons!!


John

[Cascadian]

37. These are the people that could incite trouble in New York.

They might just provoke it. BTW are these the same people who disrupted the counting in Florida in 2000?


John

[ComerPerro]

45. Here's your slogan!

For counter-counter protests:

A picture of Bush, looking at his dumbest:

under it, text that says "They're with stupid" (like the T Shirts)

and then under that, an arrow pointing at the counter-protesters

[mandyky]

46. Rachel and Liz (AAR's Unfiltered gals) had 2 of them on

late last week. I wouldn't visit their site for fear of catching something.

[ComerPerro]

47. One popular technique is to give them enlistment forms

That is always good for a laugh

[sithknight]

54. to "minni" of protest warrior (aka. chickenhawks united)

(sigh)Sorry DU, but they've locked out their "open forum for liberal critique" so I'm gonna poach here.

This PW poster wrote:
"dont know if this has been said or not, but you seriousily pissed me off. You talk of us hiding behind our first ammendment rights. What about when then annoying dixie chick got al gore to say she was being blacklisted when people stopped buying her sh-- because she said something stupid. Or just about every liberal protestor bitching when they get arrested because they wont get the hell out of my way. I support free speech, but your lot needs to realize there are consequences to what is says. You say we need to practice what we preach. I suggest you follow your own advice.

Edit: Why are you afraid to register? Unlike your famed site over there, we dont ban people with dissenting opinions.

Btw: Ive been reading that little topic you posted over there, and ive been laughing my ass off for the past half an hour (i only stopped because my roomie threatened to hit me). I would love to challenge any one of those hipocrisy laden wackjobs to a one on one bout. Beating up libs is always fun."

Ok, so I never claimed that protestwarrior shouldn't be allowed to exercise their first amendment rights. I simply tried to point out to everyone (here and there) that when you say something antagonistic, it tends to start a fight. Let me be clear and authoritative as a lawyer cause this is 100% correct law: THE FIRST AMENDMENT CONCERNS GOVERNMENT ACTION NOT PRIVATE ACTION.

This is why a paper can publish what it chooses, or the DU can lock a person out of the site, or the PW page can bar me from responding to your nonsense.

I am afraid to register with the PW page because I don't trust the right wing. After seeing all the vicious slander and nasty tactics that the GOP uses, I'm not about to give them any more intel than an isp (and that may be too much).

As for your "beating up libs" nonsense, i think I'll fall back on perhaps the best line of all time from Top Gun: your ego is writing checks your body can't cash. As a right winger I can appreciate the fact that you're hopelessly bound up in this tough guy imagery, but the simple fact of the matter is political affiliation has nothing to do with toughness. People are who they are, and there is no body mass index for party affiliation.

The essential problem with protestwarrior is that they're itching for a fight. They're like the sniviling little crybaby who sticks his jaw out, says nasty things about one's mother, and then runs to the principle when he gets punched. I hope minni tries to pick a fight with a liberal union pipe fitter some day and finally gets his wish.

[PatriotGames]

57. Fight fire with fire. That would really rile them up!

[sithknight]

59. At their heart

these PW fools come down into two camps: hawks and chickenhawks.

Now I can't fully understand why anyone who has served in a combat zone would be "happy" about us entering into another war. Supporting the troops, sure, but not the war. During WWII they talked about doing your part for the war effort, but everyone prayed for peace and a swift end.

These asses seem to think that any talk of peace amounts to disrespecting those fighting, supporting terrorism, or other such nonsense.

Then there are the chickenhawks who claim it is a logical fallacy to demand that those who are gung-ho about the war do something such as enlist, or at least help out the effort. The sad truth is that these morons don't do a single thing to help out the war effort except shoot their mouths off.

The vets who are all about it: well I don't know what to say. I respect the service they gave, and can't really ask anything more of them.

(sigh) This whole thing sucks and I think we all should try to turn our minds to figuring out positive ways we can actually help those in Iraq. I mean, step one is obviously electing John Kerry. But after that the DU should try to begin with more basic support.

Any vets out there with good ideas about what we can actually do?

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

60. is he the dipshit who sells out-of-context interview w/ protestors on dvd?

we had a run-in with him here once. he was doing his bit and we started filming him closeup (camera about 6 inches from his face while he did his bit) and following him around. he left pretty quickly.

[kohodog]

61. We ended up right behind them in NY Sunday

The Cops let them go for a block or so, but as tensions started to rise they were removed by the Police. Of course the media was all over it, interviewing them and filming them.
e
Their signs are definately wierd/ambiguous and they seemed like smug little aholes.

We were happy that for the most part people kept their cool. But they were identified as counterprotesters a good 10 minutes before they were asked to leave.

Just think, people have been arrested for wearing a Kerry shirt to a Bush event but these jerks get a free ride.

[sub.theory]

62. Of course the media is fawning all over them

The media has been salivating for a riot all week. They can barely hide the disappointment in their voices that things have been so peaceful. These PW assholes are the spark they are hoping will set the whole thing off. I'm so proud of everyone in NYC for not giving them what they want. If these guys do get the shit kicked out of them, no one could say they didn't deserve it, but it would also really hurt our cause. I'm also sick and tired of "anarchists" being blamed for absolutely everything that happens in a protest anymore. I guess it hasn't occurred to the media that any thug looking for trouble can show up dressed in black and claim to be an anarchist. Most of them are just stupid kids, same as the protestwarriors.

[manic expression]

65. I saw those protest warriors

in NYC...just a bunch of idiots, really. I bet you they spent so much time thinking up those cute and clever signs that actually make no sense. Every single one of those dumb catch-phrases proved themselves wrong on their own, so I don't think it'll be necessary to address them here. Giving them attention will just make them feel even more macho than they do already. I think if we stop paying attention they'll get bored of their childish games after awhile. They're merely a bunch of ignorant, rich, whiney, conservative kids.

[sithknight]

67. Permits?

Of course I hate the idea of requiring people to have permits before they peacfully assemble. It is flat out unconstitutional.

However, since we keep getting arrested every time we march without one: do the PW scum have permits to counter protest? If they don't, then they should be arrested and maced like everyone else. How funny would it be to wind up in a cell with some of them?

[manic expression]

68. I agree

that permits for protests completely abridge freedom of speech. But, having said that, if a group goes to protest a protest solely to agitate others to make the protesters look bad...that is going way too far. Anyway, as I've said before...the PW's power only lies in taunting others by using slanderous and ignorant signs. Maggots, all of them.

[sithknight]

70. Remember

The constitution protects the freedom to "peacfully assemble" not show up and pick a fight. In other words: they ain't got no business agitating.

I'd love to see them try and convince your average jail cell denizen of the wonders of trickle down economics.

[manic expression]

71. I would pay to see

their fake-patriotic macho b.s. beaten straight out of their ignorant heads. Hopefully, the PW would then be thrown into a federal prison, where he/she could then feel that "liberation" feeling that everyday Iraqis may now experience at the hands of our gallant and compassionate troops.

[Dukkha]

63. The Protest Warrior Members Gallery!

Just as I thought

[cosmicvortex20]

72. Initiating force is wrong no matter who does it...

I dont care if the people are on my side or on the other side... First time someone initiates force...they deserve some mace pumped into thier eyes for a bit.

[sithknight]

76. Use the force

Mindless violence is wrong, but I just can't agree with you on this.

(shrug) Like I've said earlier, I'm no pacifist though I respect those who are. The context controls, and at times a fist is more appropriate than a chant.

Example: a bunch of PW frat boys are berating a small hippy girl to the point of tears. I might very well step up and tell them to get lost, perhaps making my point with a well placed shove.

Foolish? perhaps, but I'm sick and tired of this tyranny and not going to tolerate it any more. That's why I spit at Hummers; at some point you just got accept that civil discourse can only get so far.