I need your suggestions. Talking points for a fence sitter.

[Gregorian]

I sold something on ebay, and made a friend. Now we email. Yesterday it turned political. She and her husband liked Reagan. Thought Carter was a great guy, but a lousy president. Thought that Jr. would be as good as Poppy was.

This all came after I so blatantly said that Bush is part of a criminal family that would invade and murder Iraqis for their friends oil profits. But she's still talking to me today.

Now, as I compose an email to her, I am trying to fill a thirty year gap that spans from the repeal of the Fairness Doctrine, up to PNAC and the outting of Plame.

I've got two people on the line, in North Carolina, who aren't going to vote for Bush. And won't vote for Kerry either, unless I can get them to see the truth. But the truth is such a huge monster, I don't know how to do it in one email. But folks, this is our problem- I believe that we, as Democrats, must get our talking points into a soundbite. I know it's probably impossible, and maybe even wrong, to even attempt it. But I hear someone calling our name. I want to answer in a way that will make them come to our side. Help me. I thought it was so easy. It is for me. But when the media has had 20 years to spread the GOP propaganda, we're up against a monster of mistruths.

There must be some key points that make the GOP house of cards flutter in the wind of truth. Can you help me to not blow this opportunity? I don't think it's easy. If it were, the polls wouldn't be even close. I'd appreciate your ideas, if it's not asking too much.
Thanks

[cheezus]

1. plenty of them

taxes stay the same for the family of 4 making $190,000

awarded medals for valor in battle

helped end vietnam war

put away violent criminals as prosecutor

as senator, took on terrorists and drug cartels and busted their bank

[demnan]

2. Iran Contra

There's something wrong with a party that would give arms for hostages. (1988) Bush Sr. Christmas Eve lame duck pardon on all the criminals involved (1992). The economy, fiscal responsibility, safe streets, terror attack thwarted and the technology boom (1993-2000). Subsequent recession, rising energy prices, rising oil prices, ineffective education policy, and terrorist attack. (2001-2004)

[Gregorian]

5. Thank you

I just used that first line. That's what I'm looking for. Major one liners. Huge departures from morality. I followed it up with- Would Jesus do that?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

8. Kerry passed a bill that would regulate offshore banking which funds

terrorism...Bush overturned it by executive order prior to 9/11 then reregulated after 9/11..Bush actually helped the terrorists fund themselves.

The Bush admin passed a program via the state dept in June 01 that allowed Saudis to get a visa within a few days, not even needing to apply in person. At least 2 of the 9/11 hijackers got into the country via this unexplained visa program.

[faithnotgreed]

10. those are incredible points & because there are soooo many things

this administration has done to destroy any good, those great points you (and others) make just get lost in the ocean of continuous deceipt

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

13. He investigated the Bushies in Iran contra and BCCI

that's why they are afraid of him

[faithnotgreed]

21. i know - isnt is awesome? they should be seriously afraid....

[noiretextatique]

3. divider, not a uniter

my cousin used to tell me: "everybody can't be wrong," so perhaps yolu should write about bush has been successful in further dividing the country, and uniting most of the world in opposition to the US.

[Booster]

9. Along those lines, mention that 5 million people

protested this president's war decision - can 5 million people who are willing to go to the trouble of doing this be wrong - sure enough, they weren't wrong, but the idiot was. Someone who won't listen to 5 million people ACTUALLY IN THE STREETS is no leader.

[katym]

4. Bush...

simply stated, Bush has broken both US and International laws. Our country has never had worse foreign affairs than we do now. Even the Canadians think we're crazy if we even consider voting for Bush. The Ireland prime minister refuses to talk with Bush when he comes to visit. Bush approved mercury regulations that will increase the production of mercury into our air by 300%.
These things show that bush does not care for the laws he swore to stand by and uphold. It shows that he does not care about our foreign policies and allies. And that he certainly doesnt care for the children and other people of the US if he is allowing more pollution of a neuro-toxin.

[MsUnderstood]

6. I think that when you are working the fence crowd

You have to find out what they care about.

Most people dont CARE about gay marriage so I don't talk about it; however, when I'm talking to a homosexual who isn't sure (?!?) I go full force into my "BUSH HATES YOU" speech.

There is sooo much that Bush fails us on that to try to cover it all is overwhelming. For the common person, you gotta look at the war in Iraq and the economy, and you have to fix the lies spread by Bush:

1) Kerry will not raise taxes for the middle class

2) Bush gave HUGE tax cuts to corporations and the wealthy that Kerry wants to stop

3) Bush is giving incentives for corporations to outsource YOUR JOBS!

[miss_kitty]

7. here's a few...

What about the size of gov’t? people erroneously think a vote for * is a vote for small gov’t. the last time the gov’t was this big, George H W Bush was Pres. Clinton left it much smaller. Yet the sockpuppet still promises and claims to be for small government

What about the continued insistance of the cheney-bush junta that ‘Osama and Saddam’ worked together on 9/11, when the 9/11 commission found exactly *NO* proof to support this allegation.
http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/they_knew_0802/

What about the 10,000+ dead Iraqi and Afghani citizens, not to mention the over 1000 dead US and Coalition troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.
http://iraqbodycount.net/
http://icasualties.org/oif/

How about the money missing from Iraq, which happened under our watch, said to be around $20b
http://www.christian-aid.org.uk/news/media/pressrel/040627.htm

then there is the utter disregard for or Constitution, not taking time out of his busy vacation schedule to honour War Dead (still hasn't attended a funeral), lying, hanging out with 'Kenny Boy' Lay, his inability to be successful at a job even WITH Poppy's help and the bin Laden millions to help him out...

[Gregorian]

11. Thanks people.

I'm even looking for more basic stuff. I've written my email already. I don't think these people can take more than we've already given them.

I am looking for the major points-
Repeal of the Fairness Doctrine, and how it affects the news we get today.

Saddam our friend became Saddam our enemy.

Bush connections to Bin Ladens

PNAC

Kerry exposing Iran/Contra

Supreme Court stopping recount for expediency, not legitimacy.

And so on..

[miss_kitty]

24. i know you got your stuff, but here's one more

http://www.counterpunch.org/wormer1011.html

it's about GWB's 'Dry Drunk' status being a poor influence on his ability to make well thought out decisions, personality defects, etc.

fairly basic, although just centered on the 'man'

[calimary]

12. Wanna keep this kicked.

Yesterday their convention billboards all read "People of Compassion." WHILE their convention ATTENDEES were smacking wounded veterans upside the head by wearing purple heart bandaids.

If there's a retort about this, you can accurately cite the many testimonials you've seen that prove it out. Even just here on DU, from vets, many of them decorated in combat, who have taken offense over this, while others have posted descriptions of friends, neighbors, and family members who are also decorated vets, and ALSO offended by this. It's not just us spouting stuff we know nothing about. I myself am neither a veteran nor anyone who's seen combat, no less being wounded in it. But I've read the views of others, and the objections of their loved ones. I have no reason to believe that THEY are lying also.

That's one.

"bush may not know much but it's the people AROUND him who'll make it okay."

People like cheney, rumsfeld, wolfowitz, perle, feith, and so many others who are with the PNAC and designed this horrid war in which we've had almost 1,000 Americans die, and probably about 7,000 more wounded (for which they'll probably be scoffed at, or questioned about their honesty, if, heaven forbid, they come home with a Purple Heart). Harvey Pitt of the SEC - a lawyer who worked for, covered for, and served as apologist for some of the very corporations he was supposed to be regulating.

That's two.

HONESTY. HONESTY. It's the HONESTY, stupid! "Clinton lied. Kerry's lying, blah-blah-blah - I don't trust Kerry."

Okay, then. bush campaigned in 2000 about NOT believing in nation building (Iraq), pursuing a foreign policy with humility - as he said a power as strong as ours should (see any HUMILITY up til now? How 'bout that aircraft carrier stunt, to name only one), being a COMPASSIONATE CONSERVATIVE (his policies have led to huge job losses, a near-dismantling of the middle class, no more overtime, but somehow we can afford to give tax breaks to all the rich people who need the help the least.

Also note the Money/CNN story about how CEOs personally profited HANDSOMELY by outsourcing.
http://money.cnn.com/2004/08/31/news/economy/outsourcing_pay/

If they mention what nice-guy stuff they're seeing at the convention, please note that the people speaking in prime time do not reflect the actual, statistical makeup of the republi-CON party - perhaps a big, fat 30 percent of registered republi-CONS say they believe in such things as a woman's right to choose, or leaving gays alone. "It's the HONESTY, stupid." They show you one face. They behave with another one.

"But Arnold won in California."

Tell 'em your friend in L.A. (me) points out that the ONLY reason Arnold won, besides his star power, was because he's a MODERATE. California hasn't elected a hardline conservative in a LONG time. In the last several elections for governor and for Senate, there's been an extremist running against a pretty liberal Democrat. The Democrat won every time. Arnold is pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, pro-gun control. But he doesn't represent what the vast majority of republi-CONS believes.

"But Laura was a TEACHER!"

Okay. Don't you think she could have helped her poor husband appreciate the value of reading a little more, or learn to articulate a little better? She sure could have helped him with his pronunciation AND his vocabulary...

"But the GOP believes in getting the government off our backs! I mean, didn't Arnold even say that last night?"

Okay. From WHOSE actual backs do they repeatedly remove the government? Business.

They want to force the government into a) women's wombs, b) everyone's bedrooms - both gay AND straight, your local library, your neighborhood - remember that tipster program they had Iran/Contra convict John Poindexter running?

"But they talked about government accountability..."

WHICH government do they say is so accountable? OURS? This White House is now notorious as THE most secretive government in perhaps our entire history. From locking up Reagan's AND bush 1's presidential papers (Reagan's were up for public release when bush TOOK office), the cheney energy task force papers - still under lock and key, all those backdoor "recess appointments" of judges who did NOT pass muster in the Senate, which is SUPPOSED TO APPROVE THESE THINGS. Behind closed doors, many regulations and consumer protections have quietly been dismantled - with no oversight, no announcement, no opportunity for the public to offer comment.

"But they believe in not meddling in people's private lives..."

Two words: john ashcroft.
Two more words: Patriot Act.

"But they don't like big government!"

Well, fine - then how come our government is now bigger than ever? In history? With the biggest budget deficit EVER? In history? (AND after Clinton left us with a surplus to work with.)

"But they cut our TAXES!"

Fine, then.
-I guess you'll be okay with dirtier air and water - all those researchers and government regulators whose jobs are now cut.
-You won't mind that abused children's cases won't be investigated and the abuse stopped - can't afford case workers anymore.
-You won't mind if our airplanes start crashing more frequently - remove the regulations that keep airlines from cutting corners in safety and maintenance. And too many overpaid air traffic controllers!
-You won't mind if you get food poisoning every now and then - all those food inspections - AND inspectors - cost too much of our tax money.
-Maybe we could lay off the military, then? We're already charging our wounded soldiers for the food they're served in the hospital. We've already cut back their benefits, closed many of their hospitals, and tried to cut their combat pay and family separation differentials. We already cheaped out on their body armor - the FIRST guys sent over were not properly equipped. TOO expensive. AND THIS WAS BEFORE ANY TALK OF THAT 87 BILLION DOLLARS that Kerry supposedly had trouble with.
-You won't mind that we don't see as much scientific advancement or new research into such things as cures for horrid diseases, and energy independence - funds for alternative energy research have been severely cut, so-called new appropriations are WOEFULLY inadequate, and the people put in place to oversee scientific research and set policy therein are mainly religious fundamentalists who don't endorse such scientific issues as evolution or stem cell research potential.
-You won't mind getting sick when you're older, and not being able to get the treatment you need - because benefits are steadily being cut - TOO EXPENSIVE!!!
-You won't mind going back to work when you're old and gray because you weren't able to save enough to get by in your senior years, and they've gutted Social Security. Or maybe they've "privatized" it by giving it to the Wall Street Wolves and CEOs who brought you fiascos like ENRON.
-You won't mind that your trash isn't picked up anymore - costs too much to employ all the government workers who do those things.
-You won't mind that crime goes up - police and firefighters remain seriously underfunded. (BTW: Kerry was endorsed by the New York Firefighters locals - here's a link that includes their reasons - from Khephra's thread in LBN:
International Association of Fire Fighters, AFL-CIO
Web Site: http://www.iaff.org

Don't like taxes? Do you belong to a country club? If so, do you mind paying their dues - for the services, privileges, elegant surroundings, sports offerings, staff? It is a PRIVILEGE to live in a country that offers us so much, and FRANKLY, most of the wonderful things it offers - that people happen to LIKE - DO COME WITH A PRICE TAG.


And the good ol' standby: ARE YOU BETTER OFF TODAY THAN YOU WERE FOUR YEARS AGO?

ARE WE SAFER THAN WE WERE FOUR YEARS AGO?

The 9/11 Commission singled out the Clinton Administration for EXCELLENT job in effectively stopping a terrorist attack at LAX on The Millennium. When Clinton left office, he'd helped achieved peace in Northern Ireland, and the warring factions in Israel were at least talking to each other instead of shooting at each other. And Saddam was contained. The Middle East was not the powder keg it is now.

Just a few. I realize it's not quick-n-dirty buzz phrases, but they ARE brief talking points from which you might be able to pick and choose.

GOOD LUCK!!!!

[blm]

14. Send them this article about Kerry shutting down the terrorists' banks.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2004/0409.sirota.html

NOONE could get a better understanding of the real difference between Kerry and the GOP thugs who tried to stop him from investigating the terrorists and their funding.

[phiddle]

15. common sense, pocketbook issues:

1. Our deficit has gotten so big that Greenspan has called for cutting Social Security and Medicare benefits. (Are your friends for that?) And still, Bush wants more tax cuts loaded toward the wealthy.
2. Our national debt has gotten so large that it will be a burden to generations to come. Do we continue this, or go back to (Clinton's) budgetary policies which worked?
3. The worst job creation record (and the only negative one) since Herbert Hoover, despite the massive stimulus of the deficit. (Hint, the deficit is essentially taking money out of the middle class and givng it to the wealthy in the forms of T-Bills, Defense Appropriations, etc.)
4. A combination of budgetary and social policies which has resulting in rapidly increasing wealth ant the top of the economy, with an increasingly debt-ridden middle class and sharply growing numbers of poor people.

[Bandit]

23. Red Ink Republicans

They have total control over government spending and have had for years yet they continue to pile debt on top of debt. They have put America into debt farther than any other time in history. Actions speak louder than words.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

16. 45 million no health insurance, poverty level went up, unemployment up

encouraging companies to outsource, categorized McDonald's workers as manufacturing in jobs report to cover their ass with both hands...country half a trillion in debt...do they REALLY need more?

[GoddessOfGuinness]

17. Even "Poppy" had the UN working with him...

With Kerry, we can restore healthy diplomatic relations with the European countries we need as allies.

[auburngrad82]

18. Here are a few...

1. America added more than 20 million jobs during Clinton's eight years in office. Bush lost 3 million jobs in his first term.

2. Clinton balanced the budget 5 years before the Contract for America was scheduled to do the same.

3. Democrats believe in fiscal responsibility. That's why we had a trillion dollar surplus on the day Junior took office. We now have the largest deficit in history. It's also why we had three balanced budgets in a row, the first time that had happened in over 50 years.

4. More people got tax cuts under Clinton's plan. Under Bush you pay more taxes because states and cities have to raise taxes (property etc) to make up for revenue lost from federal cut backs.

5. We're not safer now because the Homeland Security Department is underfunded with the Republican budget. Besides, there was a proposal to create the Dept of Homeland Security during Clinton's term but was voted down on party lines because the Republicans didn't want to pay for it. AND, Junior has alienated all of our long-time allies and angered the rest of the world through military aggression, broken treaties, etc.

6. The governments under Reagan, Bush Sr and Bush Jr were all much larger than the government under Clinton. His was the smallest government in 30 years.

7. Republicans preach family values yet the actions of Strom Thurmond (raped a young black girl as a young man), Bob Barr (payed for an abortion for his girlfriend while still married, Newt Gingrich (had an affair with a congressional intern at the same time Clinton was getting the Big Lewinski), Henry Hyde (4 year affair that ruined the woman's marriage), Ahnold (cocaine use, orgies, etc), and on and on.

8. Republicans have repeatedly undermined education and healthcare programs. The most recent example of this is the criminally underfunded No Child Left Behind Act. Also, a medicare drug plan that was supposed to cost 400 million dollars actually cost 120 million more just one month later and that allows drug companies to raise drug prices at will.

9. Republicans say they are strong on defense yet they belittle veterans with little purple heart bandaids, underfund veterans benefits, allow Halliburton to gouge the military while the men and women serving in Iraq can't get a hot meal and their hometowns have to hold fundraisers to buy them kevlar vests. Also, WWI and WWII and Korea were all fought during Democratic presidencies.

Want more?

[radfringe]

19. Dick Cheney says he has severed ties with Halliburton

yet he's gotten about $2million out of them since 'severing ties'

Veterans can look forward to a cut in benefits by 2006

ask them if they are better off than they were in 2000? then ask them why they are supporting bush*

Kerry had 12 vets with him on stage during the convention -- how many will bush have?

Cheney got 5 deferrments, Ashcroft had 7 deferrments -- where are the 12 guys that went in their place?

[HootieMcBoob]

20. Lobbyists and big contributers running his administration

In almost every instance Bush has appointed his biggest campaign contributors or lobbyists for industries that are big contributors to positions where they are supposed to oversee the very industries that they formerly represented.

example: Throughout Clinton's administration he tried over and over to get legislation passed that would better regulate the accounting industry and hold them to a higher standard. Over and over the legislation was rejected by republicans in congress. The main lawyer/lobbyist at that time for the accounting industry was Harvey Pitt who Bush appointed as Chairman of the SEC. He had to resign in the wake of all of the corporate scandals like Enron etc. http://democrats.com/display.cfm?id=258

Basically a good pithy way to present it is that in every instance Bush has put the fox in charge of the hen house. These people are supposed to be watching out for our best interest, after all it's our taxes that are paying their salaries but instead they are looking out for the interests of Bush's big contributors. Once again the average tax payer gets screwed and the rich get a whole lot richer, thanks to George W. Bush.

Here's a great article that sums the whole thing up and gives a ton of examples: http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0523-02.htm

[calimary]

22. Oh yes - one more:

They talked all over the place about the wonders of freedom last night. But bush once said "sometimes there ought to be limits to freedom."

[CBHagman]

25. There is no peace to spread.

One of Bush's favorite lines in his stump speech these days is a comment about "spreading the peace." But a casual look at the headlines in the daily newspaper (or five minutes spent watching the nightly news)reveals another story: terrorist attacks in various parts of the world, uprisings and insurgency in Iraq, kidnappings, slaughter of refugees in Africa, nuclear proliferation in Iran and North Korea, and on it goes.

Where is the peace to spread? Afghanistan is a potential powder keg, regardless of what the administration said. Hamid Karzai does not really govern the country; much of it is in the hands of warlords. The Taliban and al Qaeda, despite what the administration would like you to believe, have not been eliminated.

Pakistan is a potential powder keg. Our ally President Musharraf came to power in a bloodless coup d'etat and hangs on to power by a thread. There have been repeated attempts to assassinate him.

The Bush administration put both the North Korea and the Israel-Palestine issue on the back burner, for the most part, for the first year of the Bush presidency. The neglect in those areas, plus favoring administration hard-liners over moderates like Colin Powell, has cost this nation dearly and put us at greater risk.

The Bush administration recently announced it does not want to spend money on verification of nuclear programs. What happened to "trust, but verify" from the Reagan years?

Bush cannot even visit a neutral country (Ireland) or a loyal ally (the United Kingdom) without drawing crowds of protesters. His state visit to the U.K. was conducted mostly behind barricades -- really, none of the walkabouts favored by Bill Clinton.

Anti-Americanism has increased in the Middle East under Bush. How is this winning hearts and minds?

The Bush administration reminds me of the old story about the proud mother who watched her son marching proudly in his military unit. "Oh, look," she said, "Everyone but Johnny is out of step." That's the way the Bush administration is treated by its supporters. Despite evidence to the contrary, the administration is "never wrong and never sorry," as James Wolcott says of the pundit class.

It's a dangerous situation.

There is no peace to spread.

[hellbound-liberal]

26. You all need to see these resources for fencesitters...

Here is a link to a "letter to a Republican friend" that you should print and dissseminate.

A Letter to a Republican Friend
Is this the Kind of Country that you Want?
Ernest Partridge, Co-Editor
"The Crisis Papers."
August 16, 2004

Note: While I have many Republican friends, none are named “Whitney.” This letter is for all my Republican friends in general, and none in particular. It is also for all Republicans with whom I am not personally acquainted, who are willing to pause and reflect upon the condition of their party and their country, and then upon their consequent duty as citizens of the United States.
Available at www.crisispapers.org

another good source is www.thousandreasons.org

You also need to check out www.bushunplugged.com for a VERY clear and concise documentation of the sordid history of the Bush Administration.It was writen to appeal to fencesitters.

If you just want specifics, how about :

"Bush Lied and over 11,000 innocent Iraqi civilians have died"
www.iraqbodycount.com

"If Bush gets elected, we WILL be going to war with Iran" They've made this perfectly clear.

[noamnety]

27. Bush's foreign policy advisors

The Ambassador to Spain, George Argyros, is the ex-owner of the Seattle Mariners who raised $100,000 for Bush in 2000. The Ambassador to Hungary, Nancy Brinker, is in the restaurant business, and raised $100,000 for Bush in 2000. The Ambassador to Austria, W. L. Brown, is an ex-CEO of Jack-Daniels who raised $100,000 for Bush in 2000. The Ambassador to Saudi Arabia, Robert Jordan, is a lawyer from a firm that represented Bush in the 2000 election recount. The Ambassador to France, Howard Leach, was the CEO of Cypress Farms who raised $100,000 for Bush in 2000. The Ambassador to Switzerland, Mercer Reynolds III, ran a golf resort and was part owner of the Texas Rangers, and raised over $600,000 for Bush in 2000. The list goes on and on.

[noamnety]

28. Credibility of the 911 Independent Panel Appointees

Head of 9/11 Independent Panel
Thomas Kean is a director of petroleum giant Amerada Hess, which in 1998 formed a joint venture, Delta Hess, with Delta Oil, a Saudi Arabian company backed by Khalid bin Mahfouz, a Saudi married to one of Osama bin Laden's sisters. Mahfouz, who is suspected of funding charities linked to al Qaeda, is a defendant in a lawsuit filed by families of Sept. 11 victims. Mahfouz has shown up in dealings with, among others, the Carlyle Group and BCCI, the lender toppled by fraud in 1992. Three weeks before Kean's appointment as head of the panel, Hess severed its ties with Delta.

9/11 Commission Vice Chair
Lee Hamilton. Hamiltion was chairman of the House Select Committee investigating the Iran-contra affair. Despite being shown ample evidence against Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush, he did not probe their wrongdoing, explaining later on PBS 'Frontline,' that he did not think it would have been 'good for the country' to put the public through another impeachment trial.

9/11 Investigative Panel Member
John Lehman, presided over one of the worst cover-ups in the Navy's entire 227-year history. The Navy's pedophilia scandal broke the Oregon town of Coos Bay in 1982, when the commanding officer of the U.S. Naval Facility, a classified submarine tracking station, was arrested by local police for involvement in child pornography and lascivious acts with minors, including sodomy. The arrest followed a 2-month-long investigation involving the FBI and the Naval Investigative Service. At a general courts-martial held later that year, the commanding officer, a U.S. Naval Academy graduate and P-3 Orion pilot having both Critical Nuclear Weapons Design Information and top-secret communications security clearances was found guilty of 16 counts of sodomy and lewd conduct. Immediately after the Coos Bay arrest, Lehman's Navy Department bureaucracy went into cover-up mode. Reporters were barred from both the naval base and the dependents' housing area.

Head of 9/11 Independent Panel
Henry Kissinger (resigned). Has been accused of engaging in war crimes of his own. Told the 9/11 families that he had no conflicts of interest, yet resigned from the panel so his clients could remain anonymous.