cultural issues

[undergroundpanther]

..

And so, we have George Bush and the Third Reich calculating how much they can get away with by looking at the history of the reactions of the American People to cheating.

There aren't any because the system is adaptive to psychopathy. In other words, Americans support Bush and his agenda because most of them are LIKE him.

But that is not because they are ALL born that way. It is because psychopathy is almost required to survive in Competitive, Capitalistic America.

As a society gets larger and more competitive, individuals become more anonymous and more Machiavellian. Social stratification and segregation leads to feelings of inferiority, pessimism and depression among the have-nots, and this promotes the use of "cheating strategies" in life which then makes the environment more adaptive for psychopathy in general.

Read all about it!
http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/official_culture.htm

[sam sarrha]

1. The NEOCON's are based on the teachings of Machiavelli.. see

a speech by Rep Ron Paul from Texas, Couldn't be put any plainer..

http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2003/cr071003.htm

it is petty scary

[undergroundpanther]

2. It's not just the neocons

It is our very culturing.

Our culture by culture I mean the invisible surrounding mindspace,the community interaction paradigm in our relationships with each other is turning sociopathic. Partly because of the economy,Our economy is based on a selfish competitive dishonest con man do it and get away with it game. Sociopaths trhrive in this kind of moral bankruptcy and hypocraisy.Because from cradle to grave we are all taught to lookout for #1 ,seek power,self aggrandizing,get minementality and screw the rest,we do not remember how to repect each other as soverign and interdependant communities of individuals with sane conduct boundaries.We fail to lookout for every one else's well being around us because we fear by giving we will lose.Because we are a society that is privatized,atomized,and too unconcerned about the well being of others that are diffferent than ourselves or whom we don't know we do not intervene in gross injustice,show moral courage,ethical wisdom,long range planning or do what it takes to stand up against abuse.We don't really risk incurring the petty wrath of con men in power to try to raise the quality of life of everyone on Earth.We are too sympathetic with sociopath culture to be an example of peace and understanding in a healthy sustainable way to others ,we don't risk bucking the system or walk out of it,because in our culture a person who has moral or ethical courage,a person who is intolerant of tearing others apart, abuse, lies or exploitation of others or himself,Who also has deep generosity,empathy compassion and a desire for helping others because it helps you too gets screwed. Our sociopath culture gives good people a double whammy cost wise..so it isn't survival wise to care in this culture anymore aout the emotional health well being and sanity of our human existance.
This has GOT to change and this means standing up,getting wise to the con game,ripping off the mask of sanity from high places, not standing by and getting duped again because of some kind of denial or destructive face saving"pride" stemming from refusing to admit you have been fooled into opression by some very greedy emotionally stunted, manipulative,deceptive, violent sick evil people who look perfectly normal on the surface but have no insight into themselves or capacity to feel remorse...

[UdoKier]

3. This is all so sad, but true.

Even as a democrat, I'm constantly torn between my desire to have some integrity and decency and do the right thing, and the desire to give MY family a better life by just giving it all up, parroting the GOP line, sexing up my resume to get some cheesy yuppie job where I can lie my ass off to get people to buy stuff they can't afford & don't need.

I often wonder how much longer I can hold out...

[undergroundpanther]

4. Please,

Hold out because integrity is something these bullies do not have.
The reason I say this is the idea of bullies and narcissism is reaching into public consciousness. And it's known people who are not sociopath that get mixed up in cults leave after around 2 years,people who are in abusive relationships begin to think about leaving them when they admit to themselves they are being mistreated and it is not their fault. People are beginning to sense something is very sick about the way our culture is structured,and they are beginning to realize that our way of life is not sustainable.It is time to detect,shun,reject,restrain, and remove the sociopath elements from our consciousness.The Neocons and fundies are right about the culture war,wrong about what it will be fought over.

Either

you are a narcissist sociopath,control freak, bully,hypocrite, morally bankrupted,emotionally dead,greedy self serving,con man, liar, abuser,asshole..trying to get away with something..at someone Else's expense..

Or you are not that way.


Either you assume it is all about you..and nobody else matters and you do it because you can..

Or you realize your own quality of life is Dependant on the quality of life of others around you and you refuse to hurt them and yourself by proxy..

Either you can excuse a little torture in your own moral understanding of right and wrong, you can tolerate rape if it is done in certain explanations, or you can rationalize exploiting others, embrace scapegoating,threats, bullying and dehumanizing as a way to rally people around you to do your bidding, You can get off on insulting and cruelty to others because it's such a trip..You like cheating, lies,sleaze,violence and abuse because it's "stimulating" or entertaining and illustrates the kind of reality you want to live in,one structured around of Leaders(abusers) and Sycophants (enablers of abusers.)(elitism)

Or you see this kind of conduct in humankind as an atrocity and when you see it in your own heart you recognize it and voluntarily restrain it's control within you seeing it as destructive and anti life and dangerous to survival as it is.

The meek will inherit the Earth they say,
But I gotta ask what condition will the Earth be in when we inherit her? Will she have life in her after the generations of well fed bullies who corrupt power have abused her,used her up and abused and used us like her,like objects for a bullies 'entertainments' millenia? Or do the meek just inherit the job of fixing all the problems and damage done by too many emotionally dead sociopaths and
their destructive cultural programming ?
Will we look to leaders(who are sociopaths by default in a competitive selfish culture like ours) to fix what needs to be fixed personally morally in our own hearts and lives?

Do not give in to the urge to play it their way and sell your soul to them.There are more important things than a secure life on this dirtball of uncertainty. Focus instead on giving more.People long for a community a place to be where one does not have to pay to exist.Create a bully free, asshole free, sociopath free, no narcissist zone and guard it from the morally corrupted. A haven can become a home to a community of kind people.A community that shares expenses can become a real life stable haven better than a job which depends on the whims of capricious selfish monsters can. It requires you to negotiate with others,share,be there to help each other,and not compete so much with others and take things as attacks so fast,and it requires you build real trust over time to get out of that me first and me alone against the world out to eat me kind of thinking that keeps America beholden to the Bush.
This does not mean you tolerate abuse out of narcissists or stand by when it occurs in your community or presence either. In a community you are truly co responsible for co creating the kind of culture it has.
This coming together as diverse equals laying it all on the line to benefit each other, for the sake of improving the quality of life of everyone involved, building a culture of equal relations is the only escape from this soul destroying culture of inequality.

In this kind of community everyone gets the fruits of it because Sharing (and very limited ownership) has a purpose that helps everyone have a better quality of life.We ARE our brothers keeper.Especially if our brother is a bully..Our culture abhors sharing because it isn't profitable and it destroys the poverty,addiction,fear of deprivation and competition our economy exploits and our culture taught us is "good".

No one person rules over you a free community, and because the community decides the rules of conduct it can be sure no one gets away with abuse . A tyrant is opposed to real freedom, because he only wants freedom for himself ,freedom to abuse others and take their freedom to say no to him away .Freedom means living without coercion and this requires you to ask why,disobey and refuse a request or demand. In a non sociopath modeled community this works because no one can compel or manipulate others to conform or obey.But with a sociopath you need to find a way to contain the damage.To have freedom have to give up some control over how others live,in a give and take relationship.. unless they are abusive or enabling abusers ands making the quality of life in the relationship suffer.
People who desire to better themselves will accept insight and change because they want a better quality of life.

Sociopaths don't want to do this.Because they don't care about anyone else,or themselves they just want to win,get away with abuse and stay on top.


Only the abuser types among humankind need to have limits forced upon them by others who are aware of the fake sanity they use and contrived emotions and are wise to their ploys of deceiving with fake remorse. It is vital that more people learn how not to be conned,deceived, manipulated by bullies and control freaks and learn how to not have their emotions exploited by them.


It is vital people find out what they seek in life for themselves and be honest about it, to themselves and face the incompatibilities with courage and respect of differences within reason. People need to learn how to use their own inner moral core,to find right and wrong without interference from bullies,conformists, marketers or con men and act with their inner locus of control intact and be responsible for what they do with it,personally.

Until this happens we will always go through phases of these hopeful expansions of new horizon type freedom,than wealth and apathy,political decadence,corruption and bloody revolutions,instilling another leader' and starting the game again with a hopeful ever forward gaze again.Forgetting all the blood spilt for the reckless wants of a few that exploit the many.


It is the abusers and narcissists among us who refuse to care about how their actions,schemes, words and choices truly harm a community,wound a family,destroy the world or hurt other human beings on many many levels in many ways.
If an abuser refuses to take insight,and change after discovery they must be exposed and rejected,than they must be seen as the danger they are and be barred from participation in any peaceful equality based community or relationship between people. For they will exploit it abuse it,and destroy it and make it look like themselves,a sociopath culture.

[sweetheart]

5. psychopaths and sociopaths

Very interesting !long article. I critisize the presumption that
manufacturing a personality to "survive" in american culture is
somehow not-healthy. I think we all manufacture a personality,
and those with a poor upbringing are more likely to lose it and
fall towards anti-social psychopathy.

A mother who fights for a higher salary than her coworkers using
whatever means, is fighting for the SOCIAL values of her family
at the expense of the social values of her coworkers. Social and
antisocial are more complex, than the base scale the writers use.

I've seen similar comparing a society as a natural genetic set of
predators and sheep. As the predators will naturally select in a
competetive capitalist society, the sheep all pretend to be predators.

Then, everyone is living a lie, a massive collection of lies to fool
their way in to achieving what they want... and everyone is
threatened by truth... and indeed, it explains why bush the liar
is not called out by the culture as indeed, he is just an example
of the pathological infection of the whole culture.

[undergroundpanther]

6. A thought

Sweetheart wrote: I critisize the presumption that
manufacturing a personality to "survive" in American culture is
somehow not-healthy.

I think what they meant there was a really "manufactured persona". A false temporary manipulating ruse identity to replace who you really are with something fake just to appear as you are not to con somebody else.Like a person playing a "role" and telling themselves that they *are* that role and it entitles them to authority or trust. Like CEO-person or a neo con who feels he is an elite when in fact in real life he is a bully and incompetent and has money enough to create a false front to hide everyone and himself from seeing himself.

Sweetheart said:I think we all manufacture a personality,
and those with a poor upbringing are more likely to lose it and
fall toward anti-social psychopathy.

Identity as I observe it is a fluid thing,it changes and it is amorphous.I think humans have "poly egos" some people are more conscious of it that's all and very little of what we are is rigid enough to say that it is what or who we *are* in a 'structural sense'.

Sweetheart wrote:
A mother who fights for a higher salary than her coworkers using
whatever means, is fighting for the SOCIAL values of her family
at the expense of the social values of her coworkers.

Yes. But what about the way we relate in this culture that puts her in the position to put either her family or her coworkers at risk? Why must she choose one over the other?
Could it be the nature of competition in a culture that has survival of the fittest sociopath 'values' warp the hell out of humane values? Never mind what people say concerning 'compassion' talk is cheap,what do we risk and do to change this situation?

I don't think it's easy for alot of people to hold two ideas that appear contradictory in thier heads at the same time. People can understand we are interdependant on each other and that acceptance of diferences is good*But* while they focus on acceptance and interdependancy they can't seem to grasp that we must also reject and dis engage from certain interdependancies,and draw boundaries and judge or say no to certain kinds of conduct others do.Not drawing boundaries is antiethical to democracy, human rights or fairness because it enables tyrants.If you want a good culture that helps all members who do not work against all achiving a good quality of life and that is what we want we can't let bullies direct societies moral and ethical direction and foster gross inequalities or paint elitism as some moral highground or a virture anymore. We have to say NO you can't abuse me or any other being and back it up with force if nessary..

One person's success always means someone else gets to be deprived.To have haves with alot of excess wealth there has to be someone else deprived of what they need to have to survive or feel secure or that participating in decency is not profiting them.. this creates the hostility fear,dependance,denial,internecine strife and competition bullies love to exploit in those who can't bring themselves to become a ruthless asshole too..and feel vunerable.
A sociopath culture destroys safety nets for the poor,and eventually the insecurity filters up to all the people not part of the ruthless selfish ruling class,bully gang.

Sweetheart said:
Social and antisocial are more complex, than the base scale the writers use.

Yes it is very complex if you look at it on one side
but on the other perspective it is very clear and stark.

Either you think it's OK to use and abuse others, especially if you get away with it,if not try to anyway ,and never admit you do wrong.
Shit on people and be an asshole and never admit you are behaving like an asshole on purpose to get what you want and that you don't care.
some people*ARE moral relativists in the worst sense.


Do you believe in order to improve your own quality of life it really does depend on you personally participating in,fostering and facilitating the kinds of compassionate concern and sharing in a community that may not profit you or your family immediately, personally or directly because an atmosphere of mutually reinforced security can be had in this world,as much as can be had is about ensuring others have a good quality of life like you have?



It's a difference seen in the core morality or ethical philosophy and how people choose to interact among different people.
Socially this problem can appear very complex because the cultural survival games and strife this ruse creates stressed relationships become more hostile.Competition and corruption makes people become more sociopathic than they may want to be to survive and compete with ruthless abusers.

If the stress of competition and status seeking and getting needs met was less severe would they be so bullying,if they could get away with it when they didn't have to do it anymore?..Would they bully because they enjoy it and want to abuse? Or not? It has been said to truly test a person's moral character give them power and security,see if they misuse it.

I myself do judge individuals by their conduct with me and if I find a person is not up to respecting me or is misusing my trust and kindness I will not associate myself with manipulators or bullies,and I won't let a bully abuse or manipulate others in my presence..
I have very clear boundaries on the kinds of behaviors I want in my environment,If I don't assert my own ethical boundaries for myself and hold myself to my own standards too they will get crossed,abused and I will be hurt and regret my own cowardice because I did not speak up or stand up for the sake of my own integrity or the mental health of the atmosphere of the group social consiousness..

I am part of a bigger relationship,so I decided I want the good ones.But good relationships and decent people don't just appear when I am nice to everybody.I have to draw boundaries.Sometimes I gotta be outraged and intolerant when I am mistreated or abused . So I do my part to make my relationships good by weeding out people with bad conduct.This boundary keeps bullies, sociopaths and narcissists from ruining my relationships.Where I am I also relate.My boundaries on conduct are where ever I am at.

[sweetheart]

7. extending the social meme

UndergroundPanther said: "Do you believe in order to improve your own quality of life it really does depend on you personally participating in,fostering and facilitating the kinds of compassionate concern and sharing in a community that may not profit you or your family immediately, personally or directly because an atmosphere of mutually reinforced security can be had in this world,as much as can be had is about ensuring others have a good quality of life like you have?"

This is buddhist, in my view, as it suggests as does my religion
that we are all family, brothers and sisters. Yet our culture
puts us at odds, and trains people to assert manipulative behaviour
to test out whether a relationship can be abused. Like yourself
in this regard, i've zero tolerance for abuse. Tolerating it only
give permission for repeat performances.

We would not be alive if someone did not step beyond economic
necessity to support us when we are incapable. Babies cannot fight
for food with adults, nor can the elderly, so we will eventually
return to infanthood before death, in a hospital bed with cancer,
hoping somehow there is goodwill enough left in the culture.

Yes it seems there are circles of social starting with ones mother
and immediate family, branching out to extended family, close
friends, church and local community, further to city, state, nation
and world... and the pressure of the republican meme is to
collapse any sense of the social, as it is that very sense that
is your franchise to vote and not tolerate abuse from government.
Clearly they have been very successful.

Thank you for posting that on DU.