Email Exchange With Republican RE: Clinton's Surgery & Reagan

[GiovanniC]

Okay, I'm like the news guy of the office. That's partially because I occasionally flip on DU at work to keep up with any breaking news throughout the work day. Whenever something major happens, I email a few of my coworker friends to let them know. Such was the case today with Bill Clinton's health issue. Here was an email exchange with one of my coworkers, who happens to be a Republican as well as one of my best friends. My question: Was I out of line? I go out of my way to be diplomatic with her concerning politics, because she IS such a good friend, and I don't want to screw that up. My emails are in bold. Hers are in italics.

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Bill Clinton is in a hospital in Manhattan after experiencing chest pains. New York Times says he has had a heart attack. CNN reporting that he will go in for bypass surgery tomorrow morning (ABC says it will actually be later today). The Associated Press says it will be a quadruple bypass surgery.

If any of y'all care.

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I think I should decline from comments.

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Really? The guy had a heart attack. I know you don't like him... I didn't like Ronald Reagan, either, but I felt bad when he died.

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You're assuming things, I declined from commenting.

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hahaha :-) Yes, you always decline from commenting when you have something nice to say about somebody. :)

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I have to say that Ronald Reagan was a good person. That is why you felt bad when he died.

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About Ronald Reagan: I think I should decline from comments.

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Bill Clinton was a creap. (sic) I'm not saying he should die or suffer or whatever. But I don't think I'll ever feel bad for him about anything. I can't stand to look at him he's so creapy.(sic)

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Ronald Reagan's economic policies (his "voo-doo economics", as the older George Bush called them) left my dad unemployed and unable to find work in construction (the economy tanked, so nobody was building anything). We lived in poverty for several years and we weren't alone -- hunger rose by 50% during the mid-80s and poverty rose 20%. Reagan called people like my dad "lazy" for not working. I've never known anyone who worked harder than my dad -- he is not lazy by any definition, but our family had a lot of trouble finding work and making ends meet. He stood for hours in unemployment lines, and put in tons of applications but no one was hiring. He stood in line for three hours at a McDonald's when it first opened hoping to get a job there because no one else was hiring. They refused to hire him because he was "overqualified" and if the economy ever got better he would get a better job and quit. He eventually found work at a gas station, making WAY less than he did when he was working as a carpenter.

During that same time, my mom worked part-time (as many hours as she could get) as a hairdresser and stood in lines to get cheese and peanut butter that were available for poor people so they could feed their families. Ronald Reagan called people like my mom "welfare queens".

I have other reasons for not liking him too (boring reasons like selling powerful weapons to Iran, using the profits to fund rebels in Nicaragua, and then giving chemical and conventional weapons to Iraq to support them in a war against Iran, as well as giving weapons, money, and training to a group of Afghan rebels who were fighting the Russians -- a group led by Osama bin Laden). But none of those reasons are personal like the ones above are.

But theoretically it's sad when anyone dies. There are a few people in this world that I don't like -- but I don't want anything bad to happen to any of them.

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I don't even know where to begin. I'm sorry that your family ever had to go through anything like that.

Sometimes I wonder why I even TRY to talk to you about politics or anything close. You have your mind made up and to be honest, it seems like you try to make people feel stupid and inferior when you talk about politics or anything you have an opinion about. I'm sure you're right about a lot of things, but I'm also sure you're not right about everything.

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I don't try to make anyone feel stupid or inferior. I was just telling you, you don't like Clinton -- I'm sure you have your reasons -- and I don't like Reagan -- and I have my reasons for that, too. So I'm not trying to seem superior or make you feel inferior -- absolutely not. I was attempting to show you that we're similar -- our opinions might be different, but we both have valid reasons for having them. And when it comes to opinions, there is no right or wrong... they're opinions. Because of that, I don't try to prove my opinions are "correct", because that's as impossible as trying to tell someone their opinion is "incorrect". But yes, my mind is made up -- I think your mind is made up, too. There's nothing wrong with that. I was just letting you know that I didn't dislike Ronald Reagan just because he had a little "(R)" after his name. It's not a blind, automatic idiological thing. I have reasons for things -- I just didn't want you to think that it was just some knee-jerk dislike of anything "Republican".

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So, was I out of line? I thought that MAYBE I could show her that some of the things that the Reagans and the Bushes did have real consequences for real people that she knows. She grew up very comfortably, and since I'm fairly well-off economically she probably doesn't have any idea that it wasn't always so. But do you think it was worth it, or should I have just dropped it from the beginning?

[sniffa]

1. you were way too nice to the guy

but that's just me. :D

[GiovanniC]

3. If, By "the guy", You're Referring to Reagan...

I agree.

If you're referring to the coworker, she's not a "guy"... maybe that's why I was nice (sexist, I know, but I try to be a gentleman).

[Eloriel]

24. It's not a question of "nice"

It's about being acquiescent. It's a question of (in your last response) almost apologizing for having any reasons and having said anything. She got exactly what she wanted out of that exchange: you in a one-down position, almost apologetic.

No big deal, but hopefully next time you can draw back from responding to challenges in that way 'cause otherwise, what you had to say was really powerful and VERY well done.

[GiovanniC]

25. Believe Me When I Say

If it had been almost anyone else, I would have gotten progressively more forceful. This is a good friend; I'm not going to change her political beliefs any more than she will change mine, and I don't particularly want to have a knock-down, drag-out fight with her, especially via email and especially via company email.

[Eloriel]

35. None of that changes my point at all

I wish I could have made it more clearly for you, but I don't think that's possible. Perhaps if you read it again, more carefully. Or not.

[GiovanniC]

36. I Guess I'm Just Not Sure

How I could have handled it differently and still walked away with both a friend and a job.

If it was just some stranger in a bar or even one of my friends outside of work, the conversation would have been different (longer, more forceful, no backing down, et cetera). I just didn't feel right pressing it there at work, with a friend.

[Eloriel]

38. Look, what I'm saying is this

In the parlance of the human potential movement and some psychologists, in your last exchange you "gave away your power." You don't have to be ugly or rude or anything else while not doing that. Are you confusing capitulating with "being nice"? That's what it looks like to me at this point.

Go read the whole thing again. You had some GREAT points, but when she challenged you in an emotionally manipulative way, you backed down and became almost servile. Ergo: she not only won, she reduced you and your ENTIRE argument to ashes. Not using logic or even refuting your points, but by emotionally manipulating you into submission.

Except "she" didn't do it to YOU, you gave her permission once you got the magic signal from her (her emotionally manipulative challenge).

You didn't have to do that, and it wasn't necessary to be rude or ugly or "not nice" to avoid doing that.

I get the feeling that you are perhaps so emotionally tied up with this subject (and would really prefer merely validation for your exchange, most of which was GREAT) that you're not ABLE to see my point. I hope that's not true. But if it is, wait a day or two and go back and read the whole exchange and re-read my posts here as well.

But until you learn how to deflect such manipulations more successfully, they'll keep happening. You don't have to lose a friend or make an enemy, just stop being a patsy on command (and I don't mean any offense here, we've all done it, and most of us still do it rather routinely -- it takes practice NOT to do it, and I'm trying to encourage you to see how it happens so you can start practicing. ;-) )

[GiovanniC]

40. Okay, I Understand What You Mean Now

And I agree. But I have a question. What should I have said, or how should I have handled it differently? I mean, she basically accused me of purposely trying to make her feel stupid or inferior because of her political beliefs. I take great pains to avoid doing that, particularly with friends, so it was definitely a charge that bothered me a great deal. That's one of the reasons I posted this -- to see if anyone else felt I did that.

[Eloriel]

57. Aaargh. I was afraid you'd ask ;-)

LOL. Okay, let's see what we can do with it. Here's the last part of the exchange:

I don't even know where to begin. I'm sorry that your family ever had to go through anything like that.

Sometimes I wonder why I even TRY to talk to you about politics or anything close. You have your mind made up and to be honest, it seems like you try to make people feel stupid and inferior when you talk about politics or anything you have an opinion about. I'm sure you're right about a lot of things, but I'm also sure you're not right about everything.

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I don't try to make anyone feel stupid or inferior. I was just telling you, you don't like Clinton -- I'm sure you have your reasons -- and I don't like Reagan -- and I have my reasons for that, too. So I'm not trying to seem superior or make you feel inferior -- absolutely not. I was attempting to show you that we're similar -- our opinions might be different, but we both have valid reasons for having them. And when it comes to opinions, there is no right or wrong... they're opinions. Because of that, I don't try to prove my opinions are "correct", because that's as impossible as trying to tell someone their opinion is "incorrect". But yes, my mind is made up -- I think your mind is made up, too. There's nothing wrong with that. I was just letting you know that I didn't dislike Ronald Reagan just because he had a little "(R)" after his name. It's not a blind, automatic idiological thing. I have reasons for things -- I just didn't want you to think that it was just some knee-jerk dislike of anything "Republican".

=======================

Here's how I might have edited your response (also remember, if you're being respectful, you have no responsibility or control over how she takes things):

I go out of my way to avoid making anyone feel stupid or inferior. So I disagree, unless you can show me specific examples. I do spend a lot of time and energy keeping updated on national and world affairs, and I'm willing to share what I have learned with others. If that makes me seem like a know-it-all to you, there's not a lot I can do about it other than keeping my mouth shut which I don't intend to do.

Yes, my mind is made up on many things, primarily because of all the information-gathering I engage in. That doesn't mean we can't discuss things, unless you'd rather not, of course. If you think I'm wrong about something, by all means give me your counterargument and let's debate the issue.

=======================

Okay, that's one possible response. Basically, I would NOT give her validation that her "opinions" are just as good as yours, or her dislike of Clinton as valid as yours of Reagan; they're not. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but opinions based on fact are qualitatively better than opinions based on lies and mythology.

You could probably add this from your original (slightly modified here):

I didn't dislike Ronald Reagan just because he had a little "(R)" after his name. It's not a blind, automatic idiological thing. I have reasons for things based on policies and actions -- \not some knee-jerk dislike of anything "Republican."


Does that help?

[GiovanniC]

58. Yeah, It Does

Thanks.

I'll keep that under my hat for future reference. Although I suspect I'll steer clear of politics with this particular friend (I honestly don't think I'll ever change her mind), I am sure this will come up in the future.

I don't want to be just another spineless Democrat, you know?

Thanks again.

[HuskerDem]

52. How condecending..............

very efective <sarcasm off>

[lukasahero]

2. I don't think so

She couldn't even admit a gracious concern for the health of an ex-president and fellow human being? Nice repuglican values on display once again.

[sangh0]

4. You were too easy on her

I would have made her cry as soon as she accused me of making an assumption, when it was an obvious fact

[GiovanniC]

5. Well, I Didn't Make Her Cry

But I think I effectively called her out on that one.

[sangh0]

16. Yes, you did

Better luck next time :-)

[lazarus]

6. I have heard this SO many times

"...you try to make people feel stupid and inferior when you talk about politics or anything you have an opinion about."

Translation: "I feel stupid and inferior when I talk to you about things, bcause you know a lot more than I do, and Rush didn't explain all this other stuff to me."

[fudge stripe cookays]

22. Spot ON, Laz.

That hits the nail on the head.

FSC

[HuskerDem]

44. BINGO............... She wants you to feel GUILTY for being informed

While she knows she is UNINFORMED and UNWILLING to do her own research............

And so the snarky comment about you knowing "everything". Invite the bitch to look it up her own lazy self. :kick:

[Kipepeo]

53. Exactly

Republicans use this a lot when they realize they don't have any reasons or facts to back up their opinions. Opinions are pretty empty when you adopt them only because right wing media told you to.

You didn't try to make her feel stupid or inferior, she feels that way on her own.

I also agree with the posters that said you were way too nice to her.

[cmf]

7. My favorite line

You have your mind made up and to be honest, it seems like you try to make people feel stupid and inferior when you talk about politics or anything you have an opinion about.

Just like a repug. She feels stupid and inferior, and blames you.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

15. I posit...

That she feels stupid and inferior because she instinctively knows she has taken a stupid and inferior political position.

Because it does not challenge her intellectually. It is simply a visceral response to the world around her. You could probably find that a lot of her politics are the result of Medullal activity.

[EnfantTerrible]

8. Have you guys set a date yet?

That's PASSION
:loveya:

but seriously it seems to me that she took the first shot with the insults.

[Democrat 4 Ever]

19. Wonder if she remembers...

that under Reagan we had food lines for people to receive government commodities like cheese and butter*? That unemployed rates soared? Banks and savings and loans failed? The number of citizens who fell below the poverty level soared? Our government ignored a tyrant spreading hate throughout a significant portion of the world? And does she know this was not 70 years ago during the great depression but just a scant 20 years ago - under 12 years of failed economic policies by the GOP?

Being an affable actor playing the role of president does not a leader make.

I think you were way too polite to her. If she can't argue and support us position then she needs to be called on hiding behind "no comments." She actually learned that tactic from BoyGeorge. She probably is just like BoyGeorge - doesn't understand the issues, parrots what she has been told and truly resents anyone who can clearly defend their position.

She is exactly who the GOPs are playing to in this election.

[GiovanniC]

20. No Date...

She's married, and I decided some time ago after dumping a Republican that it will only be Liberal girls for me. Know anyone? :)

I don't think I could handle a Carville/Matalin relationship dynamic. Not quite sure how the Cajin does it, to be honest.

[EnfantTerrible]

21. The sex must be fantastic

shudder

[silverlib]

9. "it seems like you try to make people feel

stupid and inferior when you talk about politics"

Is that in some Republican Handbook for comebacks to Democrats?


You did a great job. My husband was a carpenter during the Reagon years. Some of the shit jobs he had to take for survival nearly ruinded every bit of self esteem he had.

[fob]

10. "So, was I out of line?" <-- You were a perfect gentleman, the ammo

is there for you to destroy her and you stuck with the facts.

As for her, I think I should decline from comments.

[clydefrand]

11. I don't think you were wrong in explaining your positions,

which by the way I'm envious of your ability to state your reasons so succintly. People who don't know what it's like to be poor as I was growing up have no idea what life is like for us. I'm not well off now, but certainly I have a much more comfortable life than I did growing up. I think people like you and I and BILL CLINTON, who was poor, who got an education, and became successful are resented by those who have never experienced what it's like to be poor. And they think what your co-worker thinks...and that is that we appear superior because we have opinions that they can't relate to. I fully believe that President Clinton's opponents couldn't bear to think that a poor person who is brilliant could possibly hold the highest office in this country. They were and still are jealous of his accomplishments.

Hang in there with your convictions and ask this person if she wants to be your friend. If not, forget her and move on.

[Pirate Smile]

12. Policies have consequences and you did a good job of illustrating that.

I just don't get all the people voting based on who "they want to have a beer with" or who "seems like a normal guy", etc.

[karlrschneider]

13. I think you did okay, has she said specifically what she finds "creepy"

about President Clinton? That's pretty strange.
:eyes:

[clydefrand]

14. Well, hell, we all know what she finds creepy!

He likes SEX!!! And to repugs, that's creepy!! I'm just amazed that repugs have offspring.

[GiovanniC]

18. Clydefand, You're Like a Psychic or Something

:)

[GiovanniC]

17. No, But That's a Hole With No Bottom

I don't have to ask to know what her answer will be: sex, oral sex, Monica Lewinski, lying, cheating on his wife, lying, Monica, sex, cigars, lying, the meaning of "is", womanizing, sex, lying, sex, sex, lying, Monica, sex.

Nothing specific, just the same old song and dance.

[johnnie]

23. Once again.......

"and to be honest, it seems like you try to make people feel stupid and inferior when you talk about politics or anything you have an opinion about. I'm sure you're right about a lot of things, but I'm also sure you're not right about everything."

That's funny...how many people here get that response. It must be what they are told the first day the go to "repub school".
I just heard this same one about 3 days ago. The problem was is that she lives in Texas and is a shrub supporter. I told her that my state (Ohio) could swing toward Kerry. Her response was "Well, what do you guys have...about to electoral votes?". I had to tell her we had 20 and I also told her that Texas is not the end all to all of America.

[Lindsey]

27. I started crying when I heard about Clinton and went to one of

the other Clinton supporters with whom I work(here in Orange County). She started to tear up too. No one else said anything. When Reagan died, some of the instructors and other employees (I work at a career college)have little t.v.'s in their cubicles and everyone was gathered around, saying all these wonderful things - it was UNBELIEVABLE. People REALLY have no clue - I continue to be SHOCKED. You were definitely not out of line.

[GiovanniC]

29. I Was Trying to Keep It Light -- I Wasn't Trying to Start a Debate

Honest, I wasn't... it's easy to see how it got started, but that wasn't my intention. I was pretty much done with the whole thing after I made my joke of repeating her "no comment" line about Ray-Gun. But when she said she didn't like Clinton because he was a "creap", I felt that opened the door for me telling her why I don't like Ronnie.

She got off light, because if she was any other monkey Freeper and not one of my closest friends, I would have forced her to define what made Clinton "creapy". And when she answered with the expected litany of "Monica" bullshit, I could barrage her with Republicans guilty of the same.

Not to seem... superior... or anything, but I am certain that in a debate I make her cry for her mommy. But I'd lose a good friend in the process, and it's not worth it to me. There's no changing her mind, so what's the point?

[Booster]

30. You're response was right on and she knows it.

On the other hand, her first response should have been "I'm sorry to hear that"; end of sentence. She's an insensitive thug so dismiss her and get on with your life. She ain't worth the trouble.

[GiovanniC]

33. Well, I Won't Dismiss Her Entirely

She really is a great person, when you take her out of the context of politics. It is heartening to me that she cares enough about politics to have certain opinions or beliefs (even if I disagree with them), but doesn't care enough to actually VOTE for those opinions or beliefs.

But when it comes to work, or social stuff, or music, movies, religion, joking around, or whatever, she's great. So... she is worth the trouble. It's just maybe not worth arguing politics with her.

[Jazzgirl]

26. What pisses me off more than anything about repukes

is the fact that they actually act like they feel sorry for you for feeling the way you do. So condescending it makes you want to :puke:

[vetwife]

42. Absolutely not.... I do see a problem though

Speak your mind and speak it with authority ! If we are going to take this country back, we can't let them think we are this nice. We aren't anymore and they made us this way. They drew the line in the sand. I would not have carried on the conversation that long. These people are non compassionate and have drank the koolaid. Bill Clinton lied about sex. George Bush lied about everything. Speak the truth to these people often and with passion. When Clinton lied no body dies. Bush is killing us off one by one and I don't hesitate to tell people that. I diss just about every republican I know. I am beginning to think they are beyond reach and totally screwed in the head. Clinton said it himself, It is better to be strong and wrong than weak and right. Well its down to the wire now. This person didn't care about your feelings. Why should you have cared about their's? Speak truth unto these people and shame them ! Every chance you get !

[Jade Fox]

28. Changing the subject to how "mean" you are being...

or how "partisan" or how "negative" or how "angry"....

its all bull to distract from having to address the issues brought up.

You did good, especially for not backing down. They count on that. :toast:

[devinsgram]

31. This is a prime example of putting the facts out in front of them

and they have nothing to reply back with. Then of course they try to say you are showing off because you think you are smarter. Well, I got news for you, you are smarter. Be proud of it.

By the way, creepy not creapy.

[GiovanniC]

32. "By the Way, Creepy, not Creapy"

I know. That was how she spelled it. I included her replies as she wrote them. Later in this thread, I put the quotation marks around it in my own comment (sort of mocking the spelling, I guess).

[IdaBriggs]

34. I was NOT sympathetic when Reagan died.

Still not. Believe he got EXACTLY what he deserved. I hope it was painful and it caused his family a lot of hardship. I * HATE * that S.O.B. Of course, I have a personal reason for it --

He stopped infertility research. Said he didn't think people should "play God", and so we lost eight years of research. Bush Sr continued on with that theme, so we lost another four. God Bless Clinton -- one of the first things he did was lift the ban on it. That meant infertility treatments that cost $40K when Clinton got into office dropped down to about $18K when my husband and I tried the first time six years ago. Earlier this year it had dropped down to about $8K total. So far we've spent over $30K (God, that looks bad when I type it), and miscarried three times. When I think of the TWELVE YEARS of research we lost because that SOB put HIS religion ahead of MY medicine, and I look at the empty rooms where my non-existent children don't sleep, I pray God he is rotting in hell.

Don't even get me started on how the infertility research stuff led to the current hope for stem cell research; I buried a sister with MS earlier this year, a great-aunt with Alzheimer's less than a month ago, and my favorite aunt who was on kidney dialysis a week and a half ago.

Sorry for the vent. I just spent a day admiring other people's babies, and I'm feeling a little ... overly sensitive at the moment. :(

[GiovanniC]

37. I Understand Somewhat

My fiance (at the time) got pregnant a couple years ago. The pregnancy wasn't exactly... planned... but once we knew, we made the announcement and began getting ready. We turned our lives upside down. We picked out a name. Everything. Then she miscarried. It was pretty painful -- worse than I ever realized it could be.

A friend of mine has been doing fertility treatments with his wife. Spent a LOT of money. It didn't take. He was pretty crushed, too.

I truly feel for you. Your story has intensified my dislike for Ray-Gun by leaps and bounds.

[IdaBriggs]

39. Thank you for your support.

Sometimes I really believe people don't GET how some of these grandiose decisions actually affect real lives. Best wishes to your friend -- tell him the best thing is to keep trying. Most people who don't succeed stop because of the emotional impact of failure, and the first one can be just downright devastating. Each time it doesn't work, you feel like you've lost "it" -- the hope, the dream, the imaginary child -- all over again. Its a tough roller coaster to ride; I'm still trying to find my courage to get back on after our most recent loss (in April/May). All the babies today were turning me GREEN. Its painful, but maybe it was the kick in the pants I needed to remind me just why I'm willing to dance the dance again. Thanks for starting this thread; sorry for mild hi-jack.

As a side note, I think you handled things well with your friend. It goes back to pounding on the reality of how people are affected by the decisions our surrogates make. This television program actually impacts our lives....:) Good job! :)

Best, Ida

[mandyky]

41. I'd have let it frop after her first response

I think Republicans talk far too much about Clinton. I listen to CSpan's Washington Journal every day, and anyone unfamiliar with who's running would think BC was..

As for your situation, what was your desired response from her? Did you really want or expect her to say oh gosh, I'm sorry? Would you have thought THAT was genuine.

I don't thik I'd have emailed known Repubs about this in the first place. LOL But that is me...

[GiovanniC]

43. She's On a List

I email her several times a day. Usually not political stuff, but occasionally about things in the news. I guess I expected her to show the same amount of respect to Clinton that I showed about Reagan.

I didn't expect ANY response to the first email. Once she started in about Clinton and telling me how great she thought Reagan was, I wasn't worried about her response so much as I wanted to set the record straight.

[Kenneth ken]

45. My question: Was I out of line? - yes

her first reply was "I think I should decline from comments." But you provoked her until she did comment; you call her a friend, but go out of your way to provoke an argument? nice friend.

[GiovanniC]

48. Oh Please

When she said "I decline to comment", or whatever, she and I both knew that was a comment on its own. From her, this was basically the equivalent of saying, "Clinton had a heart attack? Good!"

If that was the way she felt, she could have simply not replied. That's how it is with most news items I send. I have one friend who comments on everything I send, usually with a witty remark. Many others don't reply at all, but enjoy receiving these "breaking news" items. She usually doesn't reply at all, but likes to get the emails because she doesn't pay much attention to the news otherwise and she likes to know what other people are talking about when they discuss that sort of thing.

So her email that she would decline to comment was not at all innocent. It's like if someone mentions you, and I say, "If you can't say anything nice, you're not supposed to say anything at all. So I won't say anything about Kennethken."

That's not an innocuous statement.

[Kenneth ken]

50. I did not imply her comment was innocuous

I do agree it was more of a "if you can't say something nice about someone..." type of response.

At the same time she was not actually inviting an argument. You could have simply accepted based on her reply that your and her opinions on the topic were not going to be the same and let it go. Instead, you took two jabs at her, and finally drew a response you could attack; clearly that is provocation on your part. That is not how I treat my friends, so I don't see it as friendly behavior on your part.

If that is how you treat your friends, that's fine for you, but it does mean we will never be friends.

[GiovanniC]

51. Well, That's Sad News to Hear

But I was not purposely provoking her or baiting her into some sort of an attack. I am used to bantering with this person. If things had ended after I had said that I would decline to comment about Reagan, that would have been a normal thing. We go back and forth superficially, never getting into details but just gently ribbing each other, then agreeing to disagree. But for some unknown reason, she felt it necessary to say that while Ronald Reagan was "a good man", that Bill Clinton was a "creap" (sic). In my mind, that's where things really took a turn. Up until then I thought we were being good-natured about things. It's hard to tell in email, though.

[Kenneth ken]

54. yep

text doesn't convey tone of voice very well at all. I've had that crop up as a problem more than once.

You may be right about things being fine if you had stopped at About Ronald Reagan: I think I should decline from comments.

Or at least engaged her in regard to her opinion of Clinton. You sort of veered off topic into your critique of Reagan policies. You were the first to mention Reagan, and when she finally voiced her opinion of Clinton, you didn't respond directly to that, but went off on Reagan. That is the basis for my thinking you were trying to provoke an argument.

I can read your original post and infer that as soon as you got a less than empathetic response about Clinton's condition, you started moving into attack mode, knowing that you were going to villify Reagan just as soon as you could draw a truly negative comment about Clinton.

[GiovanniC]

56. You Happen To Be Wrong

It was not my intention to "attack" her or even to "attack" Reagan. I was irritated that she was being snide about Clinton's health problems... it was the sort of smug reaction that I expect over in freepland and I do not consider her one of those people. Things would have been fine if SHE had dropped it after I said I would decline to comment about Reagan. But SHE didn't. SHE launched into a vague ad hominem about how "creapy" Clinton is. I figured... since we're sharing...

I could have gotten into an argument about whether or not Clinton truly is "creapy", but that would have been pointless. That's all her opinion, and it won't change. My goal was to show her that some people like Clinton as much as she likes Reagan, and that some people have reason to dislike Reagan as much as she dislikes Clinton. My goal was not that she'd see the error of her ways (I don't think that's gonna happen) -- my goal was that she put herself in my shoes and realize that her snide remarks (like her original "I decline from comments") were uncalled for and she wouldn't have liked it in the reverse.

Like I said before, I thought we were keeping it light until she said that she couldn't stand to look at Clinton because he's so "creapy". It also bothered me (but not enough to attack -- which I think shows I wasn't exactly trigger-happy) when she decided that the reason I was respectful toward Reagan was because he was such a good guy. It's like damned if you don't, damned if you do. If I'm respectful, she figures it's because, like her, I think Ronnie should be sainted. If I'm disrespectful... then I'm a ghoulish asshole for being happy that someone died.

[mitchum]

46. You need (and deserve) smarter friends than that dolt

You must be a better person (I find it impossible to be friends with them)

[GiovanniC]

49. I Have Other Friends

That I discuss politics with. She's a really nice person most of the time... apparently politics is just something to avoid with her.

[Catherine Vincent]

47. And they say conservatives are compasionate conservatives?

Your friend was that damn selfish to at least respond with a "Sorry to hear about that, I didn't support Clinton but best wishes". Or something along those lines. You even gave her a second chance to say something. She still didn't want to comment. What a typical republican she is.

[sandnsea]

55. You let him off the hook

He turned it around on you and you let him. Everything you said was fine, but it should have ended with "I can still have compassion for Reagan and his family, I don't understand why you can't have compassion for Clinton and his family." I did not like either of the Reagans, but I have enormous compassion for what Nancy went through in caring for Ronnie's Alzheimer's. These Clinton haters and liberal bashers never express a moment's compassion and yet they claim the compassionate label. Then this one uses emotional manipulations to make YOU feel like YOU were the one lacking basic human dignity. I so hate these people.