Moral Obligation to Leave?

[Mend]

If this was 1933 in Germany and Hitler had taken power, (I don't see a difference between Bush and Hitler), I would have left the country rather than participate in an evil empire. I am wondering if my family should leave this country should Bush prevail.....any thoughts on the morality of staying vs. going?

[Kierkegaard]

1. Hitler was the one with the funny moustache.

It is a tough decision. My wife and I are prepared to move to Canada if Borscht gets another term.

[YankeeFan]

6. You Forget..

...that Hitler had Death Camps.

Where is America's Buchenwald? Our Dachau? Bergen-Belson?

I'm getting real tired of people compare Bush to Hitler, and all they are really doing is insulting America. It is not illegal to be a Democrat. In Nazi Germany it was illegal to be a member of any other political party except for the Nazi party. And in many countries today it is illegal to be a member of another party other than the one that's in power. Like Cuba, Libya, Syria, mainland China just to mention the first four that come to mind.

You cannot say Guantanamo Bay, because nobody in all this time has been executed there. And the same goes to that prison over in Iraq (I can't begin to properly spell it so I'm not going to try). America is Courts Marshaling soldiers who abused prisoners; The SS and the worst American in Uniform aren't even in the same class of human.

Political Parties in America's past have become extinct, never outlawed. If we are lucky, the Republican party will become the 21st century Whig party. If we are stupid, WE will become the next Whigs.

[Kierkegaard]

7. I didn't forget anything.

I didn't bring up Hitler. But since the topic has been broached, Hitler didn't come to power under an autocracy, he built it slowly over time by decreasing civil liberties, controlling the media, quietly spreading propaganda, and gradually repressing any dissension. Sound familiar???

[ignatius 2]

15. And like Bush the Fuhrer thought God and Provedence chose him to

be the warrior king for Germany. He based and built the German economy on war. How bad would our economy be if the $400 Billion in military spending was cut dramatically? He also combined church and state so that the church would be beholden to the state for its livelihood.

He (Bush) isn't there yet, but give him the time and the power and who knows? There are many similarities and all kinds of horrors can be unleashed when invoked in the name of God.

[PassingFair]

10. They ARE called Abu Graib and Guantanamo, yanker

America Courts Marshaling because the pictures got out.
Many were tortured to DEATH.
Who the hell knows what goes on in Guantanamo?
Who the hell knows what goes on in Iraq. Reporters marched out a gunpoint. Opposition parties weren't outlawed until well into the Reich.

The German people didn't believe it either. Some STILL don't.

Got Mitt Uns!
Buy a clue and enjoy your stay.

[Bake]

17. The term is "court martial," get it right

The plural form is "courts martial." As in "martial law." Martial is a reference to the military. Ergo, "court martial" is a military court. "Marshal" refers to Matt Dillon, as in "get outta Dodge by sundown."

Just a pet peeve of mine.

Bake

[Ms. Clio]

22. Are you kidding me? Are you saying no Iraqis died in Abu Ghraib?

If you knew what had actually happened there, maybe you would be able to spell it.

It wasn't abuse, it was torture of men, women and children. Children sodomized and tortured in front of their mothers.

It may well be remembered as the beginning of the death camps.

[salinen]

2. I can't see it being a morality

question. Why would it be immoral to stay or go? I may leave as well. I will always fight against this mentality which inhabits this planet and is not strictly an American phenomenon. Although Americans do it with such pride.

[olddem43]

3. We can probably survive but it won't be nice. -

By 2008, anyone without an R behind their name could walk into the White House, assuming Diebold hasn't completely taken over the election process.

[MichiganVote]

4. Well during the McCarthy days some people thought

the same way. Trouble is, if you're going to stand with Democracy, you're going to encounter "right-wing" periods. Its a given.

[Eric J in MN]

5. How can we have a "left-wing" period? nt

nt

[MichiganVote]

19. According to the Repub's we're still in it from the 60's

[Vickers]

8. I disagree. You have a moral obligation to STAY.

Stay and fight, literally if necessary.

[A_Possum]

11. Agreed

Our whole system was created by men who had experienced tyranny in many forms. They gave us the tools to fight it, not to run from it.

There's always been "media bias." Broadsides in the colonial era were vicious, and contained plenty of distortion and lies. Jefferson still said, "Our liberty depends on the freedom of the press, and that cannot be limited without being lost," and he knew what it was like to be savaged in the papers.

He also said, "Democracy is cumbersome, slow and inefficient, but in due time, the voice of the people will be heard and their latent wisdom will prevail."

You either have some faith in this system of ours, or you run away.

People are fighting right now. The very existence of DU is a magnificent tribute to what this country stands for.

[PassingFair]

12. I agree, stand fast!

I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK!

[kerry-is-my-prez]

9. I think we have a responsibility to stay and fight. U.S. effects the world

No-one can really get away from our policies. What if Bush went hog wild and started taking over all of the MIddle East - who would be left to stop him?

[mmonk]

13. I'm going to fight for awhile,

but in the back of one's mind, one has to wonder how long does one stay before it's too late to leave Germany?

[librechik]

14. I'm not gonna let the pirates kick me off my own ship

they are the privateers, not us!

[sffreeways]

16. I'm lucky enough

to have family in France and a nice big apartment in my in-laws home should I desire to leave. And if I should leave France is the one country I would want to go to since I believe they would protect Americans from being extradited for political persecution here. Perhaps in the end we will all thank France for saving us from our own Hitler the way we saved them from theirs.

I think we have an obligation to our constitution to stay and do our best to save this great country until it becomes clear personally that our life may be in serious danger if we stayed.

If for example I was arrested by the government for my political views, I would flee before a trial if I made bail. Or if Americans were being rounded up for government opposition I would leave before they rang my doorbell. I can think of a number of things that would clue me in to a suddenly dangerous situation. But until then, I love this country and I am staying put for now.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[shawcomm]

20. Get a grip

Get some spine, it's your country too. All this belly-aching about moving is ridiculous.

Even if Bushco wins, he's out in four years. The repugs have no one to run in '08. Cheney isn't going too, they've set themselves up for election failure in '08. It's ours for the taking if we don't take it this time, which I'm sure we will.

The answer is not to run away, it's to stay and fight. This country is a part of us and we owe it to her and our families to keep fighting the right wing, to keep them from turning America into something it's not. And when they try awful things, if we can't stop them, we'll turn them back when we retake power.

[Obamarama]

21. Actually, no, it's not ridiculous......

You write: "And when they try awful things, if we can't stop them, we'll turn them back when we retake power." Please...that's just a little too simplistic.

Look, I'm alive today because my grandparents had the foresight and intelligence to leave France in 1939 when they saw what was happening in Europe. Do you think they were spineless for fleeing an insidious, menacing regime? At what point should they have stayed, and under what circumstances would it have been acceptable to you for them to have fled? Answer me those questions, will you?

I think the Bush regime, if allowed to run rampant for another four years, is going to take us terrible places that people might never believe possible...until it's too late. The part of my family that remained in France ended up in Bergen-Belsen. Tell me my grandparents were spineless for leaving THEIR country.

I, for one, am not going to sit around and wait for "catastrophic success" to run it's course. If the majority of Americans are abjectly stupid enough to vote Bush in for another four years, that's too stupid for me to live with. Real American democracy will be a thing of the past. You stay and watch it continue to disintegrate. I'll take Paris, thank you very much.