Who was the best Republican President?

[coloradodem2005]

Poll question: Who was the best Republican President?

[mark414]

1. i want to vote for 2

TR and Lincoln...can't decide...guess i just won't vote.

[EnfantTerrible]

2. This is a trick question... Right?

[St. Jarvitude]

22. The Republican party used to be very respectable

They were (mostly) composed of classical conservatives - in the model of Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin - up until about the end of the Andrew Johnson presidency.

I consider Theodore Roosevelt to be the last great Republican president. Eisenhower was good (US Interstate system can be viewed as both positive and negative), and in fact was nearly the Democratic nominee (in a Democratic party whose Southern members - future members of the Dixiecrat party - were moving away from Rooseveltian liberalism) over Harry S Truman in 1948, but Truman won out and had the greatest underdog victory in the history of the US Presidency.

Lincoln is tougher to evaluate than one might think. Although his strides towards preserving the Union (eventually, you know, after that whole four+ year civil war...) and outlawing slavery were outstanding, he did do some terrible things such as suspend Habeas Corpus for a long period of time. But I'm still going to vote for him, considering that he dealt with the greatest threat to the United States - the division of the Union - and still managed to come out of it alive. Uh, okay, maybe not.

[Yupster]

33. I went with TR

I'm just not a fan of Lincoln's. Too many bad things.

[TexasSissy]

46. Me, too. I think it was TR who first created nat'l forests to preserve.

Unless I have my presidents confused.

I would've said Abe, who I tremendously admire and respect....except I'm not really SURE that the Civil War had to be fought, or should have been fought. Not that I think slavery should have existed. I think it would've wilted on its own. But maybe the war should've been fought. I'm just not sure about it. An eight years' long war against one's countrymen that caused so must suffering and death gives me pause. Could be there was no way out of it. But because of it, I went with TR. The preservation of national landscape was vital to the few preserved areas we now have, thanks to TR.

[EnfantTerrible]

43. I was just being flip...

But thanks for sharing your views. To be quite honest I don't care who the best Republican of all time was because the party of the past doesn't resemble what we're dealing with now. In fact I'm not sure of the relevance of the poll... unless the attempt is to catch any unsuspecting freepers off guard and hope they wake up to what their party has become.


I suppose anything is possible.

:smoke:

[Swamp Rat]

3. Abraham Lincoln

[proud patriot]

4. I love Teddy

:D

[Kal Belgarion]

5. TR

Although he was a bit of a war-mongerer.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

14. And not a big fan of the suffagettes..

MKJ

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

28. And a racist.

[jonnyblitz]

45. yup. too many get the sanitized version of history

People need to read Howard Zinn. Half of this board think it was a good think Truman dropped two nukes on civilians in Japan for chrissake. :crazy:

[sandnsea]

6. Lincoln wasn't Republican

I don't think. Not based on this cartoon. I think things were very upside down at that time too. Because of that, I voted for Teddy. He was a real Republican, but not an asshole.

[Generic Other]

35. THAT was the Republican party circa 1860s?

The free love, new age religious wacko, feminist, militant black, socialist, welfare loving, Big Brotherish, anarchist party? That was a big tent!

Very confusing that most of those folks vote for Democrats today.

[VOX]

7. I like Ike.

TR was a colorful character, but a bit too imperialistic for my tastes.

Ike's my pick. He held office during an incredibly complex time in modern history. I feel some admiration for Eisenhower for reasons beautifully articulated in a piece written by Garrison Keillor, "We’re Not in Lake Wobegon Anymore," which examines the radical transformation of the Republican Party:
<snip>
...The genial Eisenhower was their man, a genuine American hero of D-Day, who made it OK for reasonable people to vote Republican. He brought the Korean War to a stalemate, produced the Interstate Highway System, declined to rescue the French colonial army in Vietnam, and gave us a period of peace and prosperity, in which (oddly) American arts and letters flourished and higher education burgeoned—and there was a degree of plain decency in the country. Fifties Republicans were giants compared to today’s...
<snip>

[coloradodem2005]

8. Eisenhower was a good man.

From what I know, a good President. The Republicans should use him as a benchmark for modern Republicans and not Reagan. Though in the day, he had Nixon as his VP and there was Senator Joe McCarthy. Though, in an A&E Biography I watched on Eisenhower, it was indicated that Eisenhower worked behind the scenes to discredit McCarthy. Fortunately for everyone in the country. Since McCarthy was a nutcase.

[gatorboy]

12. They'll never use him.

They don't consider substance anymore...only style.

[lefador]

9. Ike...

Actually Ike ran as a Republican because he feared more the extreme wing of the republicans than the Democrats. He talked with several of his confidants about his worries concerning the possible overtaking of the Republican party by fringe reactionary elements.

Sadly enough just like he warned us about the military-industrial complex, it seems that good ol' Ike was also right on this one. Rather amazing human being for having such an acute sense of where things were moving.

That being said, the 50's were indeed a decade of prosperity and peace... as long as you were a white male. Minorities where still struggling and women were trying to find their place once the post-war American didn't need them out of the kitchen anymore.

[6000eliot]

10. Lincoln

I wouldn't pick a Cold War president from either party. They all have too much shit on their hands to be admired.

[coloradodem2005]

19. I knew that fact about Ike too.

Why he ran as a Republican. He had his concerns about things like NATO being an issue too. I am sure that he is rolling in his grave over everything that is going on now.

[Charlie Brown]

11. I think Ike was raised a Jehova's Witness

Can you imagine the fundamentalist attacks today if a Jehova's Witness candidate ran as a Republican? ("satanic cult," etc.)

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

21. I'm with you if not for only his prophetic advice to JFK...

Beware the military-industrial complex.

[Happy Eddie]

25. Ike was very interesting

Eisenhower didn't really fit in with either party. Domestically, he was in a lot of ways a status-quo business Republican, but the Democrats ran both houses of Congress during both his terms, and he had relatively few fights with them. Indeed, he was more worried about the isolationists and McCarthyites on the Right wing of the Republican party, perceiving them as a threat to American security.

I think that a big reason Kennedy got elected in 1960 was that he was such a contrast after 8 years of Eisenhower. Ike was perceived as an uninspiring leader: safe but dull. He was not an especially good public speaker (though he was an excellent writer).

But he was a great American who served with dedication -- and incorruptibility -- during some very complicated times.

Bibliography:
Neal, Steve. The Eisenhowers: Reluctant Dynasty (1978). Also discusses Ike's career public servant brother, Milton. Relatively concise and very interesting.
Perret, Geoffrey. Eisenhower (1999). Fact-filled and seems accurate, but manages to make Ike boring in 600 pages.
Eisenhower, Dwight D. Mandate for Change (1963) and Waging Peace (1965). His own Presidential memoirs.
Hughes, Emmett John. The Ordeal of Power (1963). An interesting political memoir of Ike's White House.

I haven't read Stephen Ambrose's bio. His prose style can be a bit excitable for my personal enjoyment.

[LiberalPersona]

13. Honest Abe of course

This is a trick question isn't it?

[0007]

15. Eisenhower was a front man for big corporations, same as junior!

A great general but a piss poor president.

[no_hypocrisy]

16. Teddy R. I forgive him for calling Tom Paine a "dirty little atheist"

only because of all the good TR did for the progressive era with his legislation to protect workers. And hey, for a while, he did get "In God We Trust" off the coins.

[Spiffarino]

17. George W. Bush

He has single-handedly brought unity to the left. We owe him a great debt.

Now let's kick his slimy ass.

[Zynx]

18. TR is overrated and I have some mixed feelings about Lincoln.

Lincoln's very election was the immediate cause for the Civil War because he did nothing to indicate that he would compromise. He never even campaigned in the South. Basically, he said that "I can win without you and I don't need you.". Secondly, I'm not sure that he was a very effective war leader. The conduct of the war was not particularly effective, unlike that of WWII, which could not have been more effective.

Therefore, I select Eisenhower as the best Republican president.

[skygazer]

24. Lincoln didn't campaign anywhere

Candidates didn't at that time. The only man who campaigned in 1860 was Stephen Douglas and it was highly irregular. As for compromise, Lincoln stated very clearly from the beginning that he had no desire to tamper with slavery where it already existed. How much more compromise do you want? To agree to leave millions of people in bondage is quite a bit of a compromise and not a very savory one.

As for the conduct of the war, you cannot compare it to WWII - it was a different time with different technology. It was also a Civil war which is a whole different thing than a war with a foreign enemy - you have to always keep in mind that the goal is re-unification.

That said, Lincoln was the first Republican President and he did set the precedent for a lot of the abuses of power since. I have a great deal of admiration and respect for him but he took on many congressional powers and it has haunted us since. An argument can be made that he had to in order to win the war. But it opened the door for people like * to do the same.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

29. I disagree that Lincoln is responsible for the door being open

I think a more likely cause was the Gulf of Tonkin Res. It was so much like what Bush had, complete authority based on abusing the fear of people and the fear that anyone who opposed it would be labeled a "commie" *insert Terrorist for Bush*. I don't think Bush can cite Lincoln because Lincoln fought for inclusion and certainly that's not Bush. He only invokes the Communist thing.

[skygazer]

30. Certainly that's the language being used

But it is true that Lincoln took many powers upon himself and it did set a precedent.

He called up troops without consulting Congress.
He revoked the writ of Habeus Corpus, leaving many people stuck in jail without charges or lawyers (sound familiar?)
He clamped down on the media in many instances, jailing newspaper editors who wrote pro-southern views.
etc. etc.

And I'm not so sure about inclusion either. Though Lincoln eventually came to believe emancipation was the only answer to the slavery issue, he didn't really believe that the former slaves could live in this country peacefully. He wanted them to colonize Liberia and a great number did just that. It was through the efforts of dedicated abolitionists that black troops were raised, and the rhetoric changed from shipping them out to embracing them as equals. Lincoln was not so much an abolitionist as a pragmatist. He once said that if he could save the union without freeing any slaves, he would. And if he could save it by freeing some but not others, he would. And if the only way he could save it was by freeing all the slaves, he would. For him, the issue was the union.

[Yupster]

34. For funny reading, try to find the responses

of the border state governors when Lincoln unconstitutionally called forth the militias without congressional action.

One governor telegramed Lincoln that some fool was issuing unconstitutional orders in his name and he needs to be aware of that fact. Three or four of them were funny as could be if you like your humor sarcastic.

That stupid order drove Virginia, North Carolina and Tennessee into the Confederacy, three of the four most populous Confederate states, and must rank with the most stupid and costly decisions a president has ever made.

The voters of Tennessee had just voted (barely) not to call a secession convention so they would stay in the union. Then Lincoln issues an unconstitutional demand for troops to invade the south, and whoosh, Tennessee joins the Confederacy by an overwhelming vote of the voters.

Without Virginia, North Carolina and Tennessee, the Confederacy could not have fielded an army capable of challenging the US Army, and such generals as Robert E Lee, Stonewall Jackson, Joseph Johnston, Jeb Stuart, Jubal Early (a delegate to the secession convention in Virginia who voted NO to secession), AP Hill, and Richard Ewell, all would have fought with the Union rather than against it.

That's one reason I think Lincoln is far overrated.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

38. What are your other reasons?

[SemiCharmedQuark]

36. You should read the rest of that quote though

He also said that as he would not be a slave he would not be a master. He said that slavery was a sin. He also said that those who were for slavery should "try it sometime". And the deportation was done FOR the blacks, not against them. Why couldn't blacks live here peacefully? Because the whites would never let them. And while I don't think deportation was the right answer, it was a popular theory at the time so that blacks could govern themselves. He was right too, whites never fully accepted blacks. Racism still runs rampent today. He himself believed that slavery was wrong, but he did not want to ban it in states where it already existed. What may have started as a pragmatic decision ended up being a fight for justice. Finally, it anacronistic to apply 21st century ideals to a 19th century man.

[skygazer]

41. I don't apply them

Don't mistake me, I admire Lincoln greatly. And I'm quite aware of what he said and did in regards to slavery - I have been studying the civil war for over 20 years. I just think it's important to remember historical figures accurately rather than raise them to standards they don't actually meet. Look at George Washington - it's nearly impossible to get a fix on what the man was actually like because he's been so deified over time.

As far as the original question, I DO feel Lincoln was the greatest Republican President - I've merely tried to keep some accuracy in the debate.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

42. Agreed.

I just hate the revisionist stance sometimes, not that you were overly harsh, just that I sometimes think the revisionists are worse than the original historians.
Not usually, but sometimes.

I defer to your knowledge though on this, no way have I studied it in THAT much depth.

:hi:

[SemiCharmedQuark]

27. Eisenhower allowed Nixon and McCarthy to start the communist witchunts

More than Lincoln, Eisenhower was the one who opened the door to this crap we're hearing about commies this and commies that. Further, he betrayed his friend Marshall to get him elected. AND you are incorrect that the South seceded because of Lincoln since trouble had been brewing long before Lincoln seceded. Buchanan did nothing to control the rebellious states. Blaming Lincoln for the Confederacy breaking off is like blaming Clinton for the 93 World Trade Center bombing.

[TransitJohn]

20. Nixon

For getting passed environmental regulations, the endangered species act, etc.

[indepat]

23. One decent Republican president elected in the last one hundred years says

it all.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

26. Abe, a giant among midgets. The best president, period.

Though he had his faults, they were overriden by his ability to get the right and principled things done in the face of immense adversity. Not only the best Republican president, the best president.

TR was a white supremicist and a nationalist who believed that blacks could not be a part of the "American Race". He also defended colonialism because of the "superiority" of the white race. He had a lot to say about "inferior" "weaker" races. One example (of many):

"I would not say that a good Indian is a dead Indian, but as it is true for 9 Indians out of 10, I would not waste my time with the tenth" Theodore Roosevelt

As for dear old Ike. His cold war tactics brought the CIA thugs to power to try and rid Latin America of "communists" by assasination and undermining of democratically elected governments. He was also the designer of the Bay of Pigs fiasco against Cuba.

[zmdem]

31. TR, I have some reservations about Lincoln

It's not clear to me why the southern states had less right to secede from the Union than the colonies did from Britain. Lincoln seemed to think so.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

37. Lincoln himself pointed out that

they have the right to secede but he will try and stop them. Britain tried to stop the U.S., but the U.S. prevailed and won their freedom. The South tried and lost. Therefore the south executed it's right to secede, and Lincoln executed his right to try and stop them. If people were allowed to secede whenever they wanted to, the world would have about 1000 countries.

[elperromagico]

32. Rutherfraud B. Hayes!!!

Just kidding ;)

[raysr]

39. None of the above

[CBHagman]

40. I can't believe GWB got any votes here.

Rush, is that you? Sean, how did you get in here? Bugger off, Larry Kudlow!

[jackieforthedems]

44. Abraham Lincoln

and he's probably rolling in his grave right now, too.