What happened to the hydrogen economy and the flight to mars?

[The_Casual_Observer]

These "bold new" initiatives seem to have been osama-ed

[whistle]

1. Gone with the wind it seems....

[Ready4Change]

2. More empty words from Bush.

Except that the Mars initiative is more than empty words. It requires NASA make room in it's programs for the Mars mission. Ie: start killing programs. But I'm willing to bet, come budget time, that NASA's budget is going to get cut. Not cut completely. Just reduced such that the Mars mission, and NASA in general, will be but lingering dreams.

[Bread and Circus]

3. No, the hydrogen economy is not Bush's idea...nor his goal...

it will probably happen on its own in about 15 years.

[wuushew]

4. The hydrogen economy is not desireable

The future is bio-diesel, ethanol and other hemp derived fuel feedstocks.

[Bread and Circus]

10. Give me a break....

all hydrogen fuel and the fuels you mention are conveyers of energy in chemical form.

What we will see is a hybrid of many different energy systems. The advantage of Hydrogen fuel is that you can make it from sunlight in your back yard with the right converter. Not only that, it can be made on the tops of skyscrapers (right where it is utilized).

The problem with all of the plant-based fuels you talk about is that you have to be a farmer with land to grow the stuff that has the energy.

Hydrogen fuel can be made from solar, wind, and hydro power...not just burning fossil fuels. It's the reliance on fossil fuels that is the dead end.

[wuushew]

14. I am not saying hydrogen does not have advantages

but significant obstacles exist for it's immediate adoption in transportation applications. Scientific American has a good article on the costs/benefits of hydrogen economy.

[Maple]

18. Here is a cost/benefit

There is no more cheap oil.

[jdj]

20. hee,hee.

good point.

[JPJones]

5. Where's the hydrogen going to come from? n/t

[The_Casual_Observer]

6. that's the easy part

You generate electricity and the use it to decompose water, or you get it from fossil fuels....oh wait!


The Sun is made of hydrogen isn't it? we will go there and get it.

[JPJones]

7. Where do you get the electricity to make the hydrogen? n/t

[The_Casual_Observer]

9. That's the easy part!

You burn natural gas, boil water and make steam.....oh wait!

Or you built some big dams someplace (scratches head) and go hydroelectric, or you blanket the desert floor with photovoltaic cells and bubble bubble bubble.

[hansberrym]

11. The electric company will supply it for free, once those hydrogen

consuming fuel cells come on line! :)









Sarcasm should be obvious, but just in case...

[Maple]

8. 'Hydrogen and stupidity are the two most plentiful

elements in the universe.'

Fuel cell technology is over a century old, but in spite of being able to land a man on the moon, humans just can't seem to 'manage' fuel cells.

But then oil has been plentiful and cheap, and there were fortunes to be made.

[Bread and Circus]

15. Here's why we have yet to realize the H2 fuel cell dream:

They can't put a tap on sunlight.

If they do, you will see solar energy become "the" energy source so fast it will make your head swim.

But I think it will come no matter what.

Just remember, more energy hits the earth in 3 days in the form of solar energy than all the oil buried in the ground everywhere.

We just don't use it now, ironically, because it is free.

[Bread and Circus]

12. Hydrogen is one of the most abudant elements on the face of the earth.

Hydrogen comes from water. The earth is 2/3's covered with water. You do the math.

[DieboldMustDie]

16. Unfortunately, separating the hydrogen from water takes energy...

more energy, in fact, than you get back when you burn the hydrogen.   The only energy sources that seem to make sense for this purpose are solar and wind.   The hydrogen, therefore, serves more as a way of storing solar or wind energy for later use, not as an energy source per se. :shrug:

[Maple]

17. Well then, don't try

Just give up.

[Bread and Circus]

19. No shit ....fuck, all the oil/biodiesel/hemp whatever energy

came from sunlight at some point.

In all practicality, only nuclear energy cannot be traced back to sunlight.

That's the whole fucking magic of it. We have a fucking burning nuclear reactor that works 24/7 that is 100 times the diameter over our puny planet, it never takes a piss break, never goes on vacation, never asks for a paycheck, never breaks down, and will continue to spew out a more energy then we can ever use and will do so more than a billion more years. It moves oceans, wears down mountain, raises forests, and carves the earth. It animates nearly every plant, animal, and thing you see. Best of all, the energy that comes from the sun is free.

And it is not scarce either.

At the top of our stratosphere, on a mid day moment, 1400 watts per square meter hit the outer laters of our atmosphere. After being filtered and reflected 400 watts per square meter hit the surface of the earth. That's enought to power 4 100 watt light bulbs, give or take. The area of my 200 square meter home itself would power 800 light bulbs. My 120,000 square meter lot would power 480,000 light bulbs.

Did you ever stop and wonder why it's so damn bright on a sunny day but no matter how many lights a major city has on at night it is still pretty damn dark? That's because the amount of energy all around us on a sunny day is huge, so huge you miss it because you are immersed in it and take it for granted.

Not everywhere is sunny mind you but there are plenty of open spaces in the hot desert that scorch most days of the year. Channel that and you will have all the energy you need to make water into hydrogen fuel.

[NuttyFluffers]

13. oil politics and military industrial politics.

it's been the obvious root cause for the vast majority of evils this past 20th century has seen. should it surprise you that their legacy lingers?

ps: hydrogen makes a great storage and transfer capacity for energy. that, solar paneling every roof in existence, and linking it all up to a grid and energy problems would be essentially extinct. but then that doesn't take account the "Human Factor." which means it's a complete impossibility.