"Swiftvet" Accuser of Kerry Ordered War Atrocity in 'Nam

[johnfunk]

Flashback to three weeks ago:

Roy F. Hoffman, a retired admiral, said the first TV ad, which ran for one week in Ohio, Wisconsin and West Virginia at a cost of $550,000, got so much national news attention that it generated an additional $400,000 from 8,000 donors around the country.

"We are putting together the second ad.... We're going to follow Kerry," said Hoffman, 78, of Richmond, Va. As a Navy captain in 1968 and 1969, Hoffman commanded a unit of 1,650 sailors that included Kerry as a lieutenant.

Hoffman said the unit, known as Task Force 115, included about 16 Swift boats and their crews, which patrolled the delta looking for Viet Cong and other enemy fighters.

"I knew Kerry pretty well," he said. "I did not ride his boat, but we operated very close together... . I can't say I was a personal friend or buddy-buddy, but I sure knew him... and I never felt he had the qualifications."

Well, sports fans, Atrios has triggered an all-points bulletin about Smear Boat Veterans for Bush...

Now the right had seized upon the Vietnam War, too -- specifically the role, in uniform and out, of Sen. John Kerry. And to Means, it seemed just as wrong.

Means, a 55-year-old investigator for several Bakersfield law firms, was particularly annoyed by the words of one retired admiral. Roy F. "Latch" Hoffman, one of the co-founders of the pro-George W. Bush group Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, had publicly criticized Kerry, a former Swift boat commander, for having brought back stories about alleged war crimes by U.S. forces -- often carried out, Kerry said in 1971, "with the full awareness of officers at all levels."

Seemed to him, Means said, his own Swift boat crew had come close to committing a war crime themselves one day. A senior officer, hitching a ride up the coast aboard their Swift boat, had ordered the crew to fire on a small group of unarmed Vietnamese fishermen working their nets in unrestricted waters, Means said. The boat's commanding officer had refused to comply.

Was that the way the boat's commander remembered the incident too, all these years later? Means had to know.

So he got on the Internet and hunted down Thomas W.L. "Tad" McCall, the retired Navy captain who'd commanded Means' boat, PCF 88, as a newly minted ensign. Means called him.

Not only did McCall remember the day in question, and that confrontation off the coast of South Vietnam, he remembered the name of the officer who had given the command to shoot: "Latch" Hoffman himself, then a Navy captain in charge of the entire Swift boat task force in Vietnam.

Oh, my, "Latch!" Or maybe I should say "Snatch" -- because it's obvious you're nothing more than a pussy hiding behind lies. What's the matter, "Snatch?" Miffed that Kerry would have dared to talk about the tales servicemen told him about atrocities they were ordered to commit? Could one or more of them have been ordered by YOU?

[kayell]

1. This is very interesting, but you ruin your post with the words you choose

Why do men always feel it necessary to insult each other by acting as though female anatomy is the ultimate put down. Surely there is something else you could say about this idiot.

[Jackpine Radical]

2. Amen.

[karlrschneider]

8. I often call wingnuts "pricks"...nobody has accuse me of sexism.

:eyes:

[Eloriel]

12. Because it isn't. It's just crude and offensive, that's all.

Gutter language. The language used in the OP wouldn't be sexist either IF women weren't still fighting daily for equal rights, equal representation, equal power, equal pay, etc., etc., etc. If women were on full parity with men, it would just be offensive language, not sexist language.

Every single person in the world could use the term "prick" to refer to every male in the world, but until or unless men are in a position of lesser power than women, it will NOT contribute to their oppression in any way. Some men, in fact, rather like BEING pricks and doubtless don't mind being called that.

[hlthe2b]

9. I vote the next DUer who uses this misogynistic language gets to

volunteer to be incarcerated for 72 hours in the toughest, meanest, strictest and nastiest women's prison we can find. If he/she comes out still spouting that kind of BS, then I'll let it go! But, my $$$ is on those women to turn this kind of attitude around, albeit in a rather extreme fashion.

[oldhat]

15. ZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...

I vote the next DUer who uses this misogynistic lang--

Language cops = ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzz...

[hlthe2b]

16. It's called RESPECT.... It used to be a Democratic value. Is it with you?

[oldhat]

17. First Amendment

I sort of respect that one, too.

You seem pretty sensitive about reading things on the Internet. If you want to live in a PC fantasy world, perhaps you should spend less time worrying about words that might personally mortally offend you and get off the Internet. Stop pretending to be so victimized.

[hlthe2b]

23. You are fairly new to DU, I believe.. and I welcome you

I hope you will join in respectful discussion and not combative or rude discussion among your colleagues. We are all on the same team, after all.

[oldhat]

27. Don't condescend to me.

Who do you think you are?

[kayell]

28. Somebody is playing the victim part now

and it isn't the ones saying that misogynistic language shows a lack of common respect.

[hlthe2b]

30. I'm being polite.... Does that offend you?

[kayell]

18. It isn't so much about the language, it's about the underlying attitude

that the language reveals. I don't especially care if some one says fuck, shit, piss or even cheney. (although if it is a constant feature of their speech, I may wonder whether they lack enough vocabulary to select from)

But language that uses womens anatomy as an insult reveals an underlying misogynistic attitude.

[Sailorman]

24. I volunteer

[Sailorman]

19. How bout Dickhead?

[johnfunk]

3. Believe me, I measured my words.

I could have called this cowardly lying girly-man a lot worse. And believe me when I tell you that FReepers and LPers call Kerry far worse than I called Snatch.

[kayell]

4. Obviously you didn't get it. The point is that it is an insult to women

that some men feel the need to use female anatomy or other comparisons to women as a put down. It implies that there is something wrong with being a woman. Please reconsider your use of language, and examine your attitudes towards women that you use these terms as insults. Your use of the term "girly-man" just emphasizes my point.

[Keirsey]

5. "to fire on a small group of unarmed Vietnamese fishermen"

It's alleged that Dubya's father fired on/strafed unarmed Japanese fisherman.

[kayell]

26. I hadn't heard that. Do you have a link to that story?

I would like to read it. I would also like to discuss this story without the unneeded comments injected into the post.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sailorman]

21. Actually Snatch doesn't mean a womans

Vagina unless you yourself decipher it that way. So in essence you are the one who is degrading women by automatically assuming the meaning is what you say it is.

[kayell]

22. Reread what the poster wrote. He makes the usage clear by using another

term in the same sentence.

[Sailorman]

25. I was just trying to keep the peace.

Just skip it.

[Sailorman]

29. Stern calls people Pussy all the time..

it is just a word. Lighten up

[koopie57]

6. Some of the strongest people I know

are women "girls". Their so-called "snatch" is a means to give life, even your own life.

[Cheswick2.0]

7. John this is a good story, edit your post

you language is sexist and I don't care if the freepers do it too.
You have referred to a derogatory word for a part of a woman's body and now you have used girly man as an insult. Calling someone a girly-man says there is something weak or wrong with being a woman.
Don't get defensive, your post deserves better language.

[kayell]

11. Agreed. The language distracts from an otherwise very interesting post

Just edit out the offending words please.

[kimchi]

14. I agree also.

The term is uncalled for. In fact I'd go so far as to say that he suffers not from a lack of testosterone, but from too much. Wimpy men do not order civilians shot. "Macho" men do.

[Eloriel]

13. I don't care WHAT freepers do, this isn't freeperville

And sexism is against DU rules. EDIT YOUR DAMNED POST.

"Coward" would have done perfectly well -- there was no reason to denigrate ALL women by using ugly, offensive gutter slang for female genitalia when there are perfectly wonderful, accurate, effective, NON-sexist terms you could have used with NO real strain on your brain whatseover, unless of course it DOES strain your brain to not invoke gutter language and sexist terms.

Edited to add: HERE is the relevent DU rule:

Do not post racist, SEXIST, HOMOPHOBIC (like "wimp"), ethnic, anti-religious, or anti-atheist bigotry. Unambiguous expressions of bigotry will be deleted, and will often result in the immediate banning of the individual responsible.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html

AFAIC, your choice of words is a pretty damned unambiguous expression of misogynist bigotry.

[Disturbed]

20. Words are important.

"The point is that it is an insult to women
that some men feel the need to use female anatomy or other comparisons to women as a put down. It implies that there is something wrong with being a woman. Please reconsider your use of language, and examine your attitudes towards women that you use these terms as insults. Your use of the term "girly-man" just emphasizes my point."

I agree with that 100%. Let us chose our words carefully because being offensive in this way is base and there is absolutely no excuse for it.

The SB Liers are being shown for what they are. Bitter men that have ditched their honor for vengence and allowing themselves to be pawns of Neo Fascsits. Research Musoini for the comparison of the present regime in power. You will notice close resemblances.

[NightTrain]

31. Why are so many DUers competely full of shit?

The originator of this thread posted a significant story that exposes yet another of the anti-Kerry not-so-swift boat vets as a sleazy hunk of shit. So how does DU react to the post? With a whinefest about so-called "misogyny" and "insensitivity to women."

You fucking people are as sensitive as a safecracker's fingers. Grow a goddamned spine already!

[kayell]

32. It is a significant story. It shouldn't be ruined by misogynistic comment

If the poster had used racist language connected to an otherwise excellent post, would you feel the same way?

[Moderator]

33. Locking

Please avoid sexist terms like the "p" word.