I met my future Brother in Law tonight...and all I can say is FREEPER!!

[Jokinomx]

OMG.... My Sister in Law is getting married in a couple of weeks(her 3rd time/his 2nd) and I finally had my chance to meet the lucky guy at a Family gathering today.

To make a long story as short as possible...He told me that everybody can own his or her own company and become wealthy. He did. I told him that everyone doesn't have the intelligence or capacity to do that. Some people have to work for others. That the minimum wage hasn't changed in over seven years and that their are more people living in poverty in the U.S. than any time in our lifetime. He just looked at me and said that they could start their own business. That he knew someone that came to this country with zero funds and by working hard owned his own business within three years and is a very successful person.

I told him that he was the exception, not the rule... that 3 out of 4 companies fail in the first year. That as a woodworker I have had worked for 4 manufacturers since 97 and three have shut their doors on me. That I am currently working for a wage that is less than when I graduated from high school in 1976. He told me to start my own business. I told him I didn't want to start my own business.. I just wanted to work for a fair wage and be able to provide for my Family.... send my children to college and be able to retire not wealthy but comfortable. He just kept saying how hard he had worked and everything worked out for him.

We never even had to discuss our political views....but, I was wearing my tie dyed shirt with a peace sign on it...LOL... Out of respect for my Father in Law I didn't wear my Kerry/Edwards button or hat....he gets a little concerned when I start talking politics. So I settled on my tie dyed t-shirt as a compromise.

Needless to say... we didn't talk to each other for the rest of the night...and I really am not to keen on talking to him ever again. Quite the impression he made with me.

[Union Thug]

1. Debating these guys is a waste of time..

I admire your tenacity, but geezus, save yourself the headache! =)

[cosmicvortex20]

2. We could make the poor wealthier by a gentle deflation...

instead of inflation. Slow deflation occurs naturally in the market when there isnt someone pumping gobs of bills out all the time - meaning the $5/hour people are making will buy more and more goods and services.

Its a natural market function that prices for goods get lower as competition pushes companies to get more efficient. If you want to give the poor a better standard of living, fight inflation.

[enki23]

3. everyone can own their own means of production

so either he's an absolutely committed communist, or a fairy tale capitalist. those are the only two groups, that i know of, who believe that particular dream can be reality.

[Gman]

4. The only thing required of you

is to be civil. The same goes for him.

[alittlelark]

5. Freeper In-Laws -Happen.......

... make the best of it! Act like you have no idea why he would think such a thing when he spouts his Fascist shit, just smile, with a SLIGHT aura of supremacy (damn, they hate that), and give him the truth in sound-bites, while smiling in an ever-so-friendly way.

DO NOT get sucked into an argument!!! They will attempt to destroy your soul with their 'passionate illogical rants of TRUTH'.

Ya never know, you could convert him - but from your description, I doubt it!

[istruthfull]

12. experience

Never lower yourself to get into an argument with an idiot. They will always win, they have experience.

[Jokinomx]

14. Oh.. I agree......I kept asking questions...

Which He avoided most of them... and didn't know how to react to the fact that I didn't want to become wealthy.. I just wanted to be able to work for a fair wage, pay my bills and be able to send my Daughters to College. I also told him that I know what work is after he stated that is all a person needed...I responded... I am the second oldest of 15 children...worked on a small Family farm to help make ends meet...I also worked at a convience store in addition to my chores while going to H.S.... then as My Grand Father and Father.. became an underground iron miner... so don't say I don't know what work is. I kept my cool pretty good... in fact I had to raise my hand for him to quite down. I have NO doubt he is a hard working and determined individual.. but he was far from my intellectual rival.

:kick:

[alittlelark]

24. 15 children...OMG

I knew a guy from NMSU who was in the same boat you are in! Damn!

I could not imagine.... I wish the Pope (whom I RESPECT as an ex-Catholic) would take off those rose colored glasses! Wow, I cannot imagine...


But I would like to stop from happening via Birth Control - but that's another subject.....



AAAAAnyway, If he starts into you for being unwilling to 'start your own company and become rich' - ask him why his employees have not done so yet? Ask him why sooo few of his employees speak English (just a guess!!). Ask him why he does not want to enter into the kingdom of heaven (rich men RARELY do.)?

[GoneOffShore]

6. He's a cheap labor conservative.

Obviously wants to keep everyone else down while he goes up.
Check out the link http://www.conceptualguerilla.com/beattherightinthree.htm

[Jokinomx]

17. Thanks .. a great site...:-) nt

Cheap Labor Conservative. I heard that phrase for the first time in my life today...9-5-04. Hopefully it won't be the last. Thank you so much for recommending that site. I have learned a very important lesson tonight and intend on understanding more on this angle of reasoning. It seems to be a very simple but profound way of looking at our society and how it operates.

:kick:

[B Calm]

27. Conceptual Guerilla's Strategy is a great web site!

[Only Me]

7. I wished you could have asked him " If every one owned their own business

who would they get to work for them? :think:
Cause last I heard...their was this criticial piece of business
he failed to mention...the need for "EMPLOYEES"

[Jokinomx]

11. I did bring that up...

He said he never had any employees... I said... Well, what about the person that has an IQ of say 100... he can't own his own buisness.. doesn't he deserve to be able to make a living. He didn't answer that... he just went into how hard he worked to earn his living.

[Only Me]

16. lol...I am surprised he was 'smart' enough to have his own business...

kings, Queens, and Chiefs and no body to order around. I KNOW that wouldn't work.. Bless your heart, I feel sorry for you. Maybe you won't have to see this goof to often.

[napi21]

8. This is a bettle you can't win. Don't start a family fude over it.

It's just not worth it. You'll never get him to switch, and there are always the inevitable family gatherings that you can't get out of. Save your sanity.

[Kanary]

9. I just have one itsy bitsy question for these kinds of "thinkers"

If *everyone* owns their own company, who the hell is going to do all the work????

Will all company owners then work for other company owners?

Most important ---- who's going to clean the toilets?

Do these people ever think this through????

Kanary
edited to say-- ps..... just be ready to be there for your sister-in-law when this 3rd one goes sour. Sounds like she really knows how to pick 'em. :thumbsdown:

[Mz Pip]

10. So it's all about

him. People who only vote their own interests are hard to reason with.

That said, when did he become successful? Under Bush? Under Clinton? Would he haave been able to be successful under Kerry? I see nothing in Kerry's economic plan that would keep someone like your BIL from being successful. Whatever he did would probably work regardless of who was in office. It's really unlikely that anything Bush did was all that helpful to him in the long run.

MzPip
:dem:

[Cleita]

13. None of your business.

She can marry whatever she wants. You can establish parameters around your life. However, unfortunately, family is often muddier than water and mud sucks you in faster than water. Good luck!

[CityDem]

15. Don't mix family and politics

It is not worth it. Better to keep quiet to maintain family unity.

[calimary]

18. We ALL know somebody who came to this country with zero funds

and by working hard made a mint. He spoke to the GOP CONvention on Tuesday night. And how many bajillions of other lucky Arnold-types are there?

[Tight_rope]

19. They will be a happy freepier family!

[BiggJawn]

20. So just WHAT DOES he do for a living?

Slop-Jockey Man?

Should've asked him what's the longest he ever had to sit n somebody's porch before he got paid to leave....

[K. F. Gibbons]

21. make this fun

People like your brother in law have what well trained psychoanalysts call,
"an ego".

You see, its quite simple. After escaping the white mans oppression in the gulag of the middle class, he battled through the wilderness of normal human existence to become a roll model for us all. And if he can do it then we all can.
I fact if we don't we are simply less human than him, we are in fact an inferior breed and should be treated as such. I'm sure if it was up to your brother he would separate the 95% of us who rely on the 5% such as himself and have a special country for those truly hard workers like him so he wont have to pay taxes to support the rest of us.

This is the typical republican clap trap. This is there attitude in general and derives from a bizarre dependence on a failed political ideology that they use to define human existence and their own since of masculinity, because deep down the are all a bunch of weak cowards scared of their own shadow.

He will not change because to do so would require him to recalibrate the pathetic method he uses to relate to the rest of the world.

But this can be fun because these people are easy to poke fun at.

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

22. Danger, Will Robinson!

This is the EXACT same rhetoric an ex-friend of mine tried on me when he joined Quixtar. (It's essentially Amway.com) He said the same exact things about working hard, owning his own business with ZERO employees, and yadda yadda yadda.

He could be setting it up to try to get more people in under him on this pyramid scheme.
Tell your family to watch out.

[T Bone]

23. He is a Freeper-in-Law once removed I think

since he is technically your "sister-in-laws husband. Right. He is your wife's brother-in-law, not yours. Still too close for comfort.

[Jokinomx]

25. I respectfully stand corrected... You are correct.

Yes... to close for comfort.....:-)

:kick:

[UdoKier]

26. No problem with the crux of your post, but some details....

To make a long story as short as possible...He told me that everybody can own his or her own company and become wealthy.

No. It's possible for ANYBODY to become wealthy, but the very nature of our economy dictates that EVERYBODY cannot. The number of people who are wealthy will always be a distinct minority.

He did. I told him that everyone doesn't have the intelligence or capacity to do that.

Or even if they have the intelligence and ability, factors like being born poor, of color, or raising kids they had too young are almost always insurmountable setbacks.

Some people have to work for others.

Of course, if everyone had their own business and made a fortune at it, who would work for peanuts at Micky D's?

That the minimum wage hasn't changed in over seven years and that their are more people living in poverty in the U.S. than any time in our lifetime. He just looked at me and said that they could start their own business. That he knew someone that came to this country with zero funds and by working hard owned his own business within three years and is a very successful person.

That "someone" did it doesn't mean EVERYONE can do it. Did he bring along kids to raise? Did he work 3 jobs? Was he fortunate enough to be raised by parents who instilled tthe importance of learning in him? (Apparently, according to repugs, children whose PARENTS doom them to a life of ignorance and poverty by neglecting education are "bad" and "lazy".) Did he come from his country armed with a degree in a sought-after skill? There are too many variables to count.

I told him that he was the exception, not the rule... that 3 out of 4 companies fail in the first year.

I'm pretty sure that it's closer to 90%, unless you include something like The Gap starting a "new company" like Old Navy. In those cases, the chances of success are obviously MUCH higher.

That as a woodworker I have had worked for 4 manufacturers since 97 and three have shut their doors on me. That I am currently working for a wage that is less than when I graduated from high school in 1976.

Yeah, Rush used to tell people that they weren't ENTITLED to health care, food or shelter. Now the line is that we're not even ENTITLED to work!

He told me to start my own business.

That's their answer to everything. Never mind that you're knee-deep in debt and can barely afford the minimum payments. "Just do it." they say smugly.

I told him I didn't want to start my own business.. I just wanted to work for a fair wage and be able to provide for my Family.... send my children to college and be able to retire not wealthy but comfortable. He just kept saying how hard he had worked and everything worked out for him.

Reminds me of my mom & her husband. They both were brought up with everything. The best private boarding schools, the best colleges, even a trust fund for my mom.

But when I went to college, I was on my own, had to get student loans, and my mom would tell me to be independent, etc. For some reason, they are completely oblivious to all the advantages they had starting out. If I had a master's from Baylor like she does, I'd doubtless be making more money now...

Needless to say... we didn't talk to each other for the rest of the night...and I really am not to keen on talking to him ever again. Quite the impression he made with me.

That's sad that your sister is marrying such a smug, spoiled person. Of course his business networks may be enough to pull him through, but often such people are the ones who become impossible to live with when things go really south (IE another recession/depression) If his understanding of the feelings of others is as nonexistent as his understanding of their financial predicaments, their marriage may be a short one.

[Jokinomx]

28. My sentiments exactly... .. You and I are on the same page my Friend..

:kick:

[Rhiannon12866]

29. My mother and brother are Freepers, so you have my sympathy

My only suggestion to you is to avoid him until after the election. You can never win with these people. Unlike liberals, who will give anyone the benefit of the doubt, these people refuse to listen to anyone else's point of view.:shrug: