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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 08:02 AM
Original message
Coup d'etat 2000: understanding what we're up against
-----

coup d'etat: a sudden, decisive exercise of power whereby the existing government is subverted without the consent of the people. The sudden overthrow of a government by a usually small group of persons in or previously in positions of authority.

-----

- Democrats were asleep at the wheel and should have seen the red flag when Baker and others were ridiculing the democratic process and the ideal of fair elections. They thought they were participating in fair play and the 'peaceful transfer of power' when they capitulated and allowed the supreme court to decide the 2000 election and install a small cabal of wealthy elites against the will of the majority.

- No one but the disenfranchised wanted to talk about the election fraud or the illegal and unConstitutional Supreme Court decision. It was business as usual for Republicans and Democrats alike as they went about seating themselves at the table of power and securing their own butts and careers.

- At first the Democrats didn't seem to understand that they were signing a 'pact with the devil' when they agreed to overlook a stolen election for the 'good of the country'. They didn't fully appreciate the fact that those they helped install into power had plans to work outside the law, Constitution and democracy.

- But Democrats understand it now. They know that the Bush* cabal set up America for an attack on 911 and allowed that attack to proceed unhindered. They know the Bush* cabal then intentionally used the attack as an excuse for illegal, aggressive war and occupation. And they now understand that the attacks on 911 and the war never had to happen...but were allowed or made to happen to further the political agenda of the right.

- The Bush* cabal didn't go through all the trouble and expense to stage a coup only to have themselves voted out in November. They don't seem very worried: their opponents still don't seem to 'get it' as they go about campaigning like this is just another election for the peaceful transfer of power in America.

- Jefferson speaks to us from the grave:

"Unless the mass retains sufficient control over those entrusted with the powers of their government, these will be perverted to their own oppression, and to the perpetuation of wealth and individuals and their families selected for the trust. Whether our Constitution has hit on the exact degree of control necessary, is yet under experiment." --Thomas Jefferson to M. van der Kemp, 1812. ME 13:136

"An elective despotism was not the government we fought for, but one which should not only be founded on true free principles, but in which the powers of government should be so divided and balanced among general bodies of magistracy, as that no one could transcend their legal limits without being effectually checked and restrained by the others." --Thomas Jefferson
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 08:07 AM
Response to Original message
1. You said it, Q, very well -- n/t
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
2. primary fault lies with the FLORIDA supreme court
after the u.s. supreme court made their illegal foray into deciding presidential elections, the case was sent back to the florida supreme court, who voted 9-0 to abide by the u.s. supreme court's decision.

the u.s. supreme court's decision was illegal not for its flagrantly tortured reasoning, but because the constitution did not give the supreme court the power to decide elections. indeed, the constitution explicitly states that the states shall chose the electors, and if there is a dispute regarding electors, the u.s. house of representatives decides regarding the president and the u.s. senate decides regarding the vice-president.

if the u.s. supreme court has the power to decide disputes in election law regarding matter such as were brought in bush v. gore, then the clause regarding the house and senate's powers would have been rendered obsolete. so it is clear that the supreme court's actions were outside the law.

but institution sometimes take extralegal actions. it's up to the proper institutions to correct this.

it is in this regard that the florida supreme court failed. by a vote of 9-0, they agreed to abide by an illegal decision. though it would have taken major cajones, the florida supreme court should have pointed out that the u.s. supreme court did not have standing to rule in a state matter and that only the u.s. congress could override any dispute.


of course, they would have caught major hell for doing so, and the republican congress would have approved bush/cheney anyway. nevertheless, it would have been done in accordance with the law.
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Malva Zebrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. I was not aware of the Florida court's vote
It seems like ages ago. I was under the impression that the Florida court had no power after the SC decision. They could not have reopened the counts-for there would be no point to it-and also, the Florida legislature, (Republican) by then closed the counts -- after a period time it can and was legally closed. Time up--in other words. The Florida court acted admirably to keep the counts open until the case went to the SC. After the Florida court mandated the counting continue according to law, Bush in his first arrogant fascist move, took it to the SC under the complaint that he was being harmed by having the count continued. Arguing before the court was Ted Olsen, the next to be Solicitor General, and for Gore, I forget his name--seems like ages ago, so much has transpired since then. No matter who argued for Gore, the verdict was fixed. Nothing was done to any member of the SC, even though several had blatant conflicts of interest.

We now know why the desperation--Bush HAD to win. At first I thought it was payback to his wealthy contributors, and in a way it was, but in hindsight, I conclude he had his eyes fixed on war with Iraq to finish what his father did not. All trains lead to that stop.
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reprehensor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
3. Here's a nice little website along the same line...
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
4. I realize that we 'good' Democrats are supposed to sit down and shut up...
...as Kerry tries to wrestle his way into an occupied White House. Sorry...I just can't do it. Too much is at stake. Why is our party participating in this facade...this illusion of democracy?

- Although we must learn from it...the 2000 election is history. It's what we do NOW that's important. This election MUST be more than about winning and putting a Democrat in office.

- Either we acknowledge that our country is severely off course and our government corrupted by wealth and power...or we continue on the road of giving lip service to the rule of law and democracy instead of practicing it.
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whosinpower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
5. Did it give you a shiver
When Bush stated something to the effect that they (republicans) would do whatever it took to continue on the track they were on????
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. I read something like that on the CNN website...
...about 'no turning back now' or somesuch.

- Many Americans are still unaware of the fact that those now in power have been working for literally decades to get where they are today: in control of all branches of government AND the American media. They took extraordinary measures to take power and they'll do the same to keep it.

- The question shouldn't be 'will Kerry make a better president'? Of course he will. The question should be...do the Democrats really understand what they're up against?
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Some democrats do understand what they are up against
Not enough of them understand.
However first things first.
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. Many Democrats understand...
...but they're not the ones in power. It may be true that few understood what was about to take place when they handed our government over to the Bush* cabal. But they MUST know by now that whatever it is we have in America...it's not democracy.

- And what is this 'first thing' you're talking about? Getting Kerry elected may make us feel better...but it does little for the need to accept the truth that he will be inheriting a corrupt government that he must cooperate with or be impeached or worse.
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Here's what gave me a shiver
Edited on Mon Sep-06-04 08:48 AM by SpiralHawk
Hearing Bush speak at the RNC convention last week, and repeat like a mantra the phrase: "Nothing will stop us."

You can bet your bippy that BushCo includes in that statement the free will of a majority of the citizens of the USA
-------------------------------

"If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so
long as I'm the dictator." - GW Bush 12/18/2000. CNN transcript

"There ought to be limits to freedom." - GW Bush on May 21, 1999
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. "Nothing will stop us"
- Another wink and a nod to his fanatical followers. Without coming right and and saying it...he's telling them that the end justifies the means: allowing terrorist attacks to happen, instilling fear and starting wars without cause is all about consolidating power in their name.

- Nothing will stop them. Not the Law. Not the Constitution. Not 'free and fair' elections.
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meti57b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 08:36 AM
Response to Original message
7. EXACTLY!!!
especially:

"- The Bush* cabal didn't go through all the trouble and expense to stage a coup only to have themselves voted out in November. They don't seem very worried: their opponents still don't seem to 'get it' as they go about campaigning like this is just another election for the peaceful transfer of power in America."
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
11. And, please explain why
the Democrats have sat on their asses about the Electronic Voting Machine issue? Why? They know what's going on. WHY the hell did they do NOTHING about them in the last 4 damn YEARS?

The Democrats know about the FL. Voters who were purged from the voter rolls. WHY no SCREAMING from our party?

Greg Palast has also reported that the purging is still going on and THIS election will be even worse. WHY???? are our Democrats doing NOTHING?

I feel a REVOLUTION coming on. :grr:
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. If there's a revolution...it 'won't be televised'....
...because there's no one left to report it...except the marginalized 'independent' media.

- The coup was successful and we have to deal with that reality. How? By refusing to 'just shut up' and recognize that the 'new' Democratic party is complicit in allowing the coup to happen without a fight.

- The most successful type of coup is one that takes place and no one wants to admit it happened.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
15. TREASON
FBI probes Jewish sway on Bush government
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=802725&mesg_id=802725
Israeli spy nest in the U.S. - Ashcroft says: ’Don’t arrest them!’
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=802249
Ashcroft Nixes Arrests in Israeli Spy Probe
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=796806
Secrets: Classified Info: Springing a Leak
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x803017
FBI probes Jewish sway on Bush government
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=802725
Spy Case Renews Debate Over Pro-Israel Lobby's Ties to Pentagon Cons
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=804314
Israel's Mole Inside the Pentagon
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=783161
Pro-Israel Lobby Has Strong VoiceAIPAC Is Embroiled in Investigation
of Pe
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=803035
Defense, Cheney Iran Specialists Questioned in (Israeli Spy) Probe
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=801031
Leak Inquiry Includes Iran Experts in Administration (WaPo)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=801678
White House Learned of Spy Probe in 2001
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=800454
LAT: Israel Has Long Spied on US,Say Officials(but CIA, Mossad "intimate")
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=798631
Wider FBI Probe Of Pentagon Leaks Includes Chalabi - WaPo
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=798333
Serving Two Flags The Bush Neo-Cons and Israel
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=799167
Israeli political advisor may have received U.S. secrets
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=795817
Pentagon leaks connected to battle over Iran policy (this is big!)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=797846
Pentagon Office in Spying Case Was Focus of Iran Debate
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=796889
Alleged Pentagon Leak to Iraqi Is Under Investigation
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=798060
Spy probe scans neo-cons' Israel ties (long article from Asia Times)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=794029
AIPAC hires lawyers
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=794332
IAEA: No proof of secret Iran plan
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=793930
WP: Spy Probe Expands/Linked to NSC Probe
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=795385
Pentagon Office in Spying Case Was Focus of Iran Debate
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=795432
U.S. Spy Probe Focuses on Two Lobbyists -Guardian
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=794973
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Yes! TREASON! And why
is nothing being done by our (supposed) representatives in Congress?

Even though the Dems are in the minority, they should be screaming about this 24/7.
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telamachus Donating Member (279 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
16. Ummm...
"coup d'etat: a sudden, decisive exercise of power whereby the existing government is subverted without the consent of the people. The sudden overthrow of a government by a usually small group of persons in or previously in positions of authority."

The people HAVE given consent......this kind of talk makes Dems look like bad (IMHO)

Question: If it really was a coup then why is Bush still around?

As they said of the Impeachments "Move On" ...hypochrisy knows no political boundaries.

And for Gods sake, lets get Kerry (and Edwards) in office to help fix this mess we are in!

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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. The people did not give consent.
The PEOPLE were in shock, thanks to our whoremedia. Some quisling Dems did, however, give consent.
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telamachus Donating Member (279 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. My point:
Bush is still here because if people did truly believe it was a coup they would not let him stay in residence.

If it is true then we are ALL guilty.
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Many Americans can't even give you the definition of a coup...
Edited on Mon Sep-06-04 06:09 PM by Q
...so they certainly wouldn't be able to recognize one. In the absence of a free press or a press that works for the state...they'll believe whatever they're told. Like it was a 'close race' or that Gore wouldn't have won a recount anyway.

- The people have nothing to do with Bush* staying in office. They have no power beyond voting...and even THAT power is in question.

- The people are guilty of nothng except ignorance and apathy. The same can't be said of the politicians on both sides that allowed this to happen.
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-04 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. This kind of talk makes Dems 'look bad'?...
...as opposed to allowing a takeover of our government by anti-democratic forces? Weakness, appeasement and complicity makes us look bad...not the words of one lefty on a political board.

- And please tell us...what kind of 'consent' did the people give? Their vote? That can't be true because the majority voted for Gore.

- Politics has become all about winning and promising changes will be made after the next election...and the next. But change never comes because both parties are willing to sacrifice the people and their Constitution on the alter of greed and power.
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