What does the future of Russia-US look like? ** Any Soviet experts here?

[burythehatchet]

The bush policies are radicalizing more and more Muslims. While the Chechans has an altogether different beef with the Russians, its not hard to imagine that there is a link between their fight and our fight against Islam.

Any thoughts?


Edited to correct brain fart

[DrWeird]

1. You mean in regards to Chinese muslims?

I'm confused by the question.

[UpsideDownFlag]

2. ...i thought sino was chinese.

[Capt_Nemo]

3. No expert but their geopolitical ambitions are antagonistic

The US wants a continuing containment and downsizing of Russia's
influence. Russia obviously wants to expand it.
Moreover the US interests in the Caspian put them much closer to
the Chechen independentists than from the russians.
And now Russia has a pretext to mass troops on its Southern Caucasus
border from where they can destabilze Georgia that has been falling
further and further under US influence. Russia has accused Georgia
of giving Chechen rebels a Haven in the Pankisi Gorge and has been
supporting the separatist regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.
Russia could well invade those regions with full support of the local
populations, using its "war on terrorism" as a pretext and getting
into a head on collision with the US (now is the right moment with
the US Army pinned down in Iraq).

[burythehatchet]

4. It took all of 3 posts - two responding to an error in my post

to arrive at what I had felt was the same conclusion. I do fear that there is a possibility of a proxy war, at best.

Maybe they'll dust condi off and she can help explain it.

[Junkdrawer]

5. Not covered by the US Media: Putin is pointing fingers at the West...

....

Mr. Putin took a defiant tone, acknowledging corruption in Russian law-enforcement agencies but lashing out pointedly at unspecified foreign foes seeking to tear the country apart.

"Some want to cut off a juicy morsel from us; others are helping them. They are helping, believing that Russia, as one of the world's biggest nuclear powers, is still posing a threat to them," Mr. Putin said. "Therefore, this threat must be removed."

Analysts said Mr. Putin had turned a new page in his foreign policy, blaming terrorism on the West. "(W)ho fears our nuclear weapons? Who are they aimed at? It's the West. It's not Osama bin Laden," said Pavel Felgenhauer, an independent military analyst.

Mr. Putin promised measures to "strengthen the unity" of Russia and tighten its borders, and demanded "action from our law-enforcement organs that would be adequate to the level and scale of the new threats."

...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20040905.wbeslan0905/BNStory/Front/

Link to more of the speech..

....
We showed weakness, and the weak are trampled upon. Some want to cut off a juicy morsel from us while others are helping them.

They are helping because they believe that, as one of the world's major nuclear powers, Russia is still posing a threat to someone, and therefore this threat must be removed.

And terrorism is, of course, only a tool for achieving these goals. But as I have already said many times, we have faced crises, mutinies and acts of terror more than once.
....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3627878.stm

[burythehatchet]

10. you're right. I had not read that.

and I believe I make a strong effort to be informed.

[Junkdrawer]

11. I Googled "Putin Speech" in the news area and only foreign...

news media are covering it as a slap at the West. The US news sources are twisting it into a condemnation of Arab support for terrorists.

Curious, huh?

[burythehatchet]

12. I've been subjecting myself to CNN today

and the spin is that Putin has taken a hard line against the separatists and that is what is driving their actions.

Pretty simple huh?

I also wonder about Iran's connections to all this.

[Junkdrawer]

13. Two things:

1.) Check this post by allemand:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2312706&mesg_id=2317425&page=
I'm guessing that Putin is suspecting indirect support of the terrorists through Georgia

2.) I've been posting for a while that an Iranian invasion might bring in Russia and/or China. I just don't see the regional powers sitting still while we take over the entire region.

[burythehatchet]

14. The resource rich Caspian basin is a very coveted prize.

I think we're looking at some provocative actions. October ... perhaps.

[bemildred]

6. Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.

Pooty-Poot is trying to cover his ass with the "external enemy"
ploy. You know, "we've all go to unify and get behind our leader",
he's learned a lot from Shrub. This is not to say that
the US is not hip-deep in the shit in the Caucasus and quite upset
about some of Pooty-Poot's initiatives. But Pooty-Poot has been
steadfast in refusing to be our enemy anymore, and it he departs
from that I would wager it's because he has big internal problems
because of the failure of his stupid little colonial war, so he
needs a bigger enemy to keep himself in power.

Edit: I am NOT a Russian expert.

[stavka]

7. We write checks, their military infra structure continue to collapse

"Leaders" keep getting paid, temptation to sell off to Western business interests grows. - things like a domestic auto industry, cellular service etc cease to exist in Russia.

They join the ranks for good of the 2nd world.

[treepig]

8. why don't you just ask condi?

as far as i can tell, she's not doing anything for the bush cabal of late.

[Aidoneus]

9. a continued boomerang effect, to a serious head (both US as well)

like any empire, Rome for example. I am not much a Russian expert. The vicious crimes committed against peoples turn enough against the empire that it cannot maintain itself. The latter process is not a pretty sight, but it pales in comparison to what it has unleashed previously (that is not brought up much during the ugly boomerang period). Those under the thumb of the center are immediately better off for it, though what enters its place in a longer timeframe cannot be predicted (Rome's collapse saw the West revert to a barbarity it has only partially shed, but allowed the greatest civilization the world had known).

Russia has a much better leader throughout the process. Putin's state terrorism in Chechyna and the Caucasus are an unparalleled crime in modern history, despicable savagery that I fully support the resistance to, but (perhaps paradoxically) on many other matters he is quite well for Russia and the world in general. It is a shame that he has let the former matter define his regime, for that will be what can destroy it. He has, on the other hand, stabilized some other matters signifigantly enough that Russia is a long way's off from Rome.

On the other hand, the US will have it far, far worse and before them, but it won't be simply because of Bush but rather for the decades (centuries?) of a consistant policy line that he is in fact the logical product of.