What does "born again" really mean?

[skygazer]

I'm asking this seriously. I'm not religious and don't follow these things but I'm wondering just what the concept is on this. I recently read an article in which Kerry was criticized for not being born again, the gist seeming to be that this indicated that he felt he was perfect. I realize this is crap and that's not what I'm asking about - it made me curious about the whole born again thing, though.

Do Christians have to be "born again" to qualify as Christians? Is it a particular sect or church that teaches this? Or is it a fringe element? Anyone out there more up on religious matters to help me out?

[tandot]

1. that you weren't born "right" the first time around...?

In that case, Bush must really go through a horrible cycle:

born over and over again...and still the same old sh*t-head

[WMliberal]

20. going through Barbara's coochie more than once!

say it with me now..
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!

[MountainLaurel]

44. Must. Scrub. Brain.

Preferably with bleach, to get THAT visual out of my head.

[WMliberal]

2. i thought it was only for certain protestant cults, er denominations

not catholics. i dunno, I'm as mystified as you are. I'm an atheist.

[Inland]

3. Born again is a concept of American revivalist christianity

emphasizing a moment of revelation or clarity when one feels a personal relationship to or communication with Christ. Most of the christian sects don't have it as a concept.

[kixot]

19. pretty much right from what I understand

It's an "exclusivity" perversion of the forgiveness clause inherent to all christian faiths. Essentially, the idea is similar to that of the inquisition - those beleive as we say are "saved" and worthy of everlasting forgiveness regardless of actions good or bad, those who do not are deserving of everlasting damnation and social ostracision.

Thus, those who are "saved" are thought to be saved forever and they can go out and murder hundreds of people and can be, if "sincere", simply forgiven because they have "accepted jesus christ as their lord and savior", which is really just code talk for subservience to the cultists. Those who are not are to be seen as unwashed dogs and worthy of the purest hate usually reserved for effigies of Satan, or Osama, or Goldman, or whoever.

Most believers of this hogwash are typically evangelist leaning neochristians (sometimes snakehandlers and tongue-talkers) who underhandedly justify their racism, bigotry, and predjudice with class oriented, ultra-nationalist, pseudo-theology so unnacepted by other factions that they have to call themselves "nondemoninational" since no established denomination will lay claim to these whackos.

My two cents.

[skygazer]

24. Hell, the pig alone is worth a nickel!

He's very cute.

[charlyvi]

4. Baptists think it.

Funny though, my family has been Baptist (Alabama Baptist) for the 50 years I remember, but I never heard the term "born again" until about 15 years ago. I used to spend summers with my grandparents when I was a kid; went to church with them three times a week and never heard of the concept "saved" or "born again". I'm not sure, but I think this is kind of a new development in the Baptist faith.

Anyway, to help answer your question, it means to accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior. What that means exactly is anyone's guess.

[skygazer]

7. Interesting

Seems to me that most Christian sects operate on the concept of Jesus as one's personal savior without the bother of being born again or am I wrong there, too?

Man, this stuff is so complicated!

[charlyvi]

13. Christians operate on the idea of Jesus as the Saviour

--the Christ--but I think the born again people mean this in a more visceral sense. They actually feel born again--as though their lives before were sinful and wasted. That's a big problem I've always had with organized religion--any religion. The idea that people are inherently evil or sinners. In my opinion, God doesn't make shit. But that's me.

[HamdenRice]

14. You don't have to have had a bad life before ...

to be born again. Although that is often the narrative story that evangicals tell about themselves. It really just has to do with the fact that evangicals decide to be baptized when they have adult reason, compared with Catholics who are baptized as children.

[kixot]

21. Sort of.

The "born again" view of baptism is more like the Catholic view of confirmation. It is a willful desicion to belong to the church, rather than the washing away of original sin in the name of Christ. Evangelicals and born-agains just view both of these as the same act.

[ChickMagic]

23. I remember it all my 51 years

around Southern Baptists. I believe they took an idea from another faith (don't know which) who believes that Jesus wasn't deified until he was baptised. So when you are old enough to be baptised, you also become a new person. That leads many kids to ask, "Well, what about babies? Do they go to hell?" In their twisted belief system, then yes, they would go to hell. But, they just make up something to tell kids. They start 'em out young to accept lies.

[charlyvi]

25. I understand that

but what I find sort of offensive is the idea of the demarcation--before baptism you are in a no-man's land, that somehow being baptized makes you more acceptable to God. You don't have to have had a bad life, but the baptism itself means you were less in God's grace than after the baptism; otherwise, why have it. It has a negative connotation to me.

[ChickMagic]

27. It is negative

They often speak derisively about how Catholics give babies "showers". That doesn't count. It has to be a full body dunk in a nasty bath with things floating in it, and you have to be old enough to ask for it yourself.

If you haven't done this, you aren't in God's grace. Not only that, but you can achieve some kind of special grace (the name escapes me)where literally no matter what you do, it is not considered wrong. The crooked televangelists usually claim this state of grace when they get caught.

[TahitiNut]

38. Salvation from "Original Sin" ...

Traditional Catholic/Christian theology included the notion of "original sin" - the legacy of the disobedience that led to Adam and Eve's expulsion from the Garden. Under this belief, we're born with the stain of "original sin" and this stain (on the soul) can only be countered (i.e Salvation) by Belief and Baptism. Traditional Catholicism thus adopted infant baptism (a sacrament) and a teaching process that led to volitional Belief, as represented by confirmation (a Sacrament) and communion (a sacrament). According to Catholics, Mary (mother of Jesus) was the only human being conceived with "original sin." (This is also what the Immaculate Assumption is about.) All other people have "original sin" and must, through their acts, repeatedly confess and be absolved - acts of faith.

The "born again" notion is reactive. It comes from a theology base that rejected infant baptism and required adult baptism instead. ("He that believeth in me and is baptized ...") In doing so, they also contend that the person is cleansed of "original sin" - i.e. on a par with Mary and newly conceived.

It's a notion that divides the world into "bad" people (who may accidentally do "good" things) and "good" people (who may only accidentally do "bad" things) - those who are fundamentally (from birth) flawed and are inherently sinners and those who, due to salvation, are fundamentally (from being born again) "saved".


It's important to understand that Christian theology has, from the outset, worked very hard to ally Old Testament "teachings" with New Testament (gospel) "teachings" - bringing the teachings of Jesus (as the predicted "Christ") into accord (Concordance) with the 24 books of the Tanach (the Torah, Nevi’im, and Kesuvim) which is loosely equivalent to what Christians today call the Old Testament.

[democratreformed]

26. Arkansas "mutt" here.

My mom tended toward Baptist. My dad's family was Pentecostal. They didn't attend church regularly when I was growing up, but I went to the Baptist with my mom when she went. I went to the Pentecostal with my grandma quite a bit.

I never hear "born again" in the Baptist church, but I did hear "saved". (This was 25 years ago or so).
"Born again" was a term I heard at the Pentecostal church and referred to the "act" of asking for forgiveness and being baptized to "wash away your sins". They said the act of Baptism cleansed your soul and that nothing you did before that moment counted. After Baptism, you were to live your life in a "Christlike" manner and, thereafter, you should refrain from "sinning" as much as possible. Of course, if you did sin, it was forgiven b/c you were "saved" and had "asked for forgiveness" from Christ.

Of course, the Pentecostals maintained that you had to be baptized in a specific way for it to work. If the preacher said "I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit", it was no good. It had to be "in the name of the Holy Ghost". So, if you switched from a different church where they didn't use the right words, you had to do it over again.

I also attended Harding University, which is a Church of Christ institution. I don't specifically remember "born again" being used there, but I'm not sure.

My son now attends a small private school at the Church of God. They are very close to Pentecostal and they do use the term.

[charlyvi]

32. Thanks democratreformed.

I know my grandparents never used either term, but that was 45 yrs ago. My cousin now does, though. All Baptist. It would be interesting to know if the terms have anything to do with the Southern Baptist Convention--it seems like my cousin talks alot about what they decide. Maybe years ago they decided to make being saved or born again part of the belief. Don't know.

[BurtWorm]

5. It's a fundamentalist litmus test for presidential candidates

that has been in place since 1976, when Jimmy Carter, the first born-again candidate of a major party ran. Since then, virtually all candidates have claimed to be "born again," which allegedly means that they've all "accepted Jesus Christ as their personal savior." Yes, even Episcopal George, the first Bush, has claimed to be "born again!" The godless media plays along in making this an important credential for the nation's chief executive. It would be as unthinkable for Americans to elect a person who was NOT born again as it would be for a President to end a speech without saying, "God bless you and God bless the United States of America."

[Nimrod]

6. An adult epiphany

or some such. Most born-agains I've met seem to have done it just so they can have an excuse to be even more obnoxiously self-righteous.

The LAST thing we need right now is another born-again president.

[MrMonk]

8. "Oh, you always think that you can do things better than your mother."

[enki23]

9. i means you are now sanctified, and can do whatever the fuck you want

for the rest of your life. because, once you're born again, everything you do is by definition good.

[knitter4democracy]

33. Not sanctified

Being sanctified, to followers of Wesley (like Methodists, Free Methodists, Nazarenes (used to be one), etc.), is a separate event from being born again. Sanctification is a re-dedication to God, a healing of all original sin, while being born again is an original dedication of oneself to God.

They definitely don't think everything they do afterwards is fine. Why do you think preachers constantly try to make them feel guilty about every little sin and to run to the altar (prayer rail at the front of the church) to pray for forgiveness (crying and calling out for God's forgiveness really loudly are highly encouraged)? A mark of a preacher's effectiveness is how many bodies he can get down at the altar by the end of his sermon.

[enki23]

36. depends on which branch of the cult you follow

it's not the official line of most of them, no. but it's functionally equivalent to how they actually use the term, yes.

[kysrsoze]

40. I think it means denial and lost critical thinking ability

It's grasping at straws to try and forget about your guilty past. If you find God, great. But too many times it's used as an excuse to feel superior and treat others with disdain.

Back when Dennis Miller still had a soul and a sense of humor, he said, "Pardon me for getting it right the first time."

[Randers]

10. To me

it is more the evangelical/fundamentalists that are into the "Born Again" thing.

I think some denominations are into it in some places and not others.

None of the churches I went to ever mentioneded it or made it part of their services (including - (suburban) Presbyterian - United Methodist - Quaker).


I have heard of it associated more with Southern Baptist, Pentacostal, and various "non-Denominational" churches.

[Carla in Ca]

11. I compare it with the sealing of criminal records

of people when they become 18. Nothing from them can be used against them, often with tragic consequences.

I want that rule abolished!

[HamdenRice]

12. From a Baptist -- It's part reaction to Catholics and Episcopalians

Part of the emphasis on being "born again" is a reaction to Catholicism, which allows a person to be baptized as an infant. The infant has not used its own reasoning and understanding of scripture to come to Christ, Baptists believe. Baptist and other evangical Christian denominations emphasized that each person has the ability to reason and choose to be baptized on his or her own.

Hence Baptists are not baptized as infants. You must study the Bible on your own and choose your church at about the age of 12 or older. This is supposed to occur at the same time as an epiphany or realization of your personal connection to Jesus.

Hence you are born again when you have the adult reasoning ability to choose. Baptists and other evangicals also emphasize full immersion in water -- sometimes in a natural body of water like a lake or stream -- as practiced by John the Baptists, rather than the sprinking of Papist Holy Water.

Although it seems like bizarre American folk religion today, the emphasis on being "born again" as an adult or semi adult was a kind of democratic reaction against the cradle to grave control exercised by the Catholic and later Anglican Churches over their members.

But just as an insurance policy, children raised in Baptist families are routinely "Christened" as infants. Christening has an ambiguous status, but it seems it is just in case the child dies in childhood so that he or she don't go to hell, unbaptized.

[Randers]

16. In 1500-1600 Europe

Mennonites were persecuted and killed for being "Anabaptists" - believing in Adult baptism.

I don't think Mennonties are into the big "Born Again" craze, now, however.



What I don't like about it - and it is part of what has turned me away from organized religion - is the deviseness that is a part of the modern movement. People who divide the world into "Saved" or "Unsaved".

[skygazer]

17. Thank you

That is a very lucid explanation. I do recall rather colorful public baptisms being performed in the local river in my youth - hence the name "Baptist" no doubt (ain't I smart?).

[kixot]

39. But that's why Catholics have "confirmation"

I guess the Catholic Church believes the washing away of original sin need not wait for the conscious decision of the child but be instead the responsibilty of the parent. Confirmation is reserved for the young adult as an affirmation of faith similar to the Jewish barmitzvah.

[Bonhomme Richard]

15. It means you are absolved of all responsibility for your life.........

All the bad choices you made
All the bad choices you are going to make
No matter what you do, or don't do, you will go to heaven.
Most of all it means not thinking for yourself. That's understandable because when they did think for themselves they made all the wrong choices.

[skygazer]

18. That may be so but

I love the ship! There's something about a sailing ship that is just so graceful and majestic! Oh, for a tall ship and a star to steer her by!

[Randers]

22. as this site implies

Suburban churches (esp.) were getting less concerned about whether Jesus was actually God or not. "Born-again" churches seem to be a reaction to the liberalization of Christianity - IMO.

------------------------------------------------------

http://www.born-again-christian.info/salvation.htm#LORD


"Note: Implicit in receiving the Lord Jesus Christ, is the acceptance that He is who He claimed to be, and who the Holy Bible declares Him to be, Almighty God in the Flesh.
Jn. 12:41+45; Is. 6:5; Jn. 1:1+14; Rev. 1:8, Rev 22:13+16; Is. 48:12; Lk. 6:5; Jn.Ch 8. Back to text

The cults endeavour to make Him less than this, ie. 'a god' or just the 'son of God', and so deny Him and perish. Unless you believe that Christ is LORD (YHWH), you will die in your sins. See Jn. Ch.8

There's more Good News....

Whoever does not believe (in Christ) stands condemned already.
Jn. 3:18

That is why we need a Saviour."

------------------------------------------------------

[NervousRex]

28. It's a do-over...

I was a piece of shit, but if I take a swim, I am a good guy again. It's the cheap way out...Watch the movie "The Mission"...this is the only way I see redeeming yourself...and it ain't pretty.

[0rganism]

29. wikipedia article has a good summary

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Born-again

[LanternWaste]

30. n/m eom

Oops.... n/m

[xchrom]

31. there's being baptised and then there is being ''born again''

''born again'' refers to a passage, i forget which one, that talks about receiving the holy spirit and being born again in the spirit of christ.
technically, you are baptised and then at another moment you have this ''born again'' revelatory moment in your life.
it is also compared to the moment when paul was struck blind on the road to damascus.
then it gets hairier, the poster above was talking about jesus=god business. well, trinatarians are uncomfortable to say the least with much of the evagelical, born again thing.
first we believe that one baptism is it -- baptised and you are a ''saved child of god''.
then there is the belief that the trinity is three distinct and seperate personalities rolled into one being, the father, son, and holy spirit. jesus christ and the father are the same and not all at the same time, jesus and the holy spirit are the same but not, etc.
trinatarians do not cross the thresh hold that the father, the son, and the holy spirit are distinct one from the other.
we are all pleased to have added to your confusion.

[Swamp Rat]

34. This:

[CBHagman]

35. Here's part of the passage.

"...Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3).

You don't have to be a Baptist and/or any kind of fundamentalist to believe that passage or even to have it read in your churches; I remember hearing that Scripture in a Catholic church when I was growing up.

The basic concept, from what I understand about it, is that one must go to God for forgiveness of one's sins. It means salvation through grace, not through some brownie-point system of one's own merit.

That said, it is also not license to be a jerk or a miscreant for most of one's life and then to repent at the deathbed, although obviously some people do that. And it also doesn't mean that the born-again person is better than other people; the whole point is that it's God's mercy, not the individual's goodness, that brings forgiveness. There's a passage in the Bible -- I forget which book -- which says that all human righteousness is as filthy rags compared to the goodness of God.

[xchrom]

43. but that's the point -- even if you are a miscreant

but believe in redmption through christ{and for some with a priest} you are forgiven. period.
it's tough to swallow -- but that's it.

[shawn703]

52. Still

People are not saved through their own actions or the actions of a priest. They can go through the motions, declare themselves saved all they want, but if they do not truly repent and accept Jesus Christ as their saviour, they will not receive God's grace.

That's the tough pill to swallow for believers. Nonbelievers look at the eternal security doctrine as a security blanket for Christians that gives them license to do whatever they want. However, nobody knows whether or not someone is saved except God. I can believe I'm saved, it doesn't mean I am.

[IggleDoer]

37. "Fooled again"

n/t

[theboss]

41. Good question....ignore the ignorance here

To be born again means to be "born again in the blood of Christ." Different denominations treat this differently as they treat baptism differently. But it is essentially a conscious moment when a believer chooses to hand his life over to Christ and accept that he died for our sins.

The idea is that we are born twice in this world. The first is our natural birth when we are born of the flesh. The second is our spiritual birth when we are born of the Holy Spirit. That occurs when you accept Christ as your personal savior.

In my church, the process works as such: you attend church and come to learn the Bible. You make the decision that you want to become a member of the Church. You stand before the congregation and state that you believe Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God, and your personal savior. Then you are baptized through immersion. Once you are baptized, your sins are washed away and you start your new life as a Christian. Then we have a covered dish dinner. Avoid the green bean casserole. Just trust me.

(Edit. As someone else pointed out, the real key to all of this is understanding that you are only saved by grace, which manifested itself in Christ's sacrifice).

[skygazer]

45. Okay.....

Then before all this, are you NOT considered a Christian? That's what puzzles me.

[Randers]

46. There are plenty of people

who consider themselves to be Christian who do NOT do the ritual described or who do it differently or who don't say they are "born again" or "saved".

The Quakers are a Christian denomination - some are more liberal in their ideas, some more conservative - and they don't baptize at all (at least not at meetings I've been to).

I think it's up to the individual whether they self-desribe themselves as Christians and whether they are interested in self-describing themselves as "Born Again" or not.

[theboss]

55. It's not a club with an initiation.

I consider anyway who believes:

1. The Jesus Christ is the Son of God;
2. That he was crucified, died, and rose again;
3. And, that he will rule over eternity

to be a Christian. This includes Catholics, Protestants, etc.

The concept behind being "born-again" or "saved" or whatever your denomination wants to call it is whether you have taken the steps to have your name written in the Book of Life and spend eternity with Him.

[demosincebirth]

42. It means that you some times become...

a pain in the ass to you neighbors and anyone else you meet.

[leesa]

47. It means you can do whatever you want, no matter how rotten, and

you are saved because you, yourself, declare yourself saved. Works great! Better than penance and absolution.

[shawn703]

50. Ah but there's a gotcha with that

The eternal security doctrine does say that once saved, always saved - however, if a sinner is truly repentant, that means he has turned away from Satan and is a follower of Jesus Christ. People who are truly saved will not do whatever they want no matter how rotten, because it is no longer part of their nature.

Only God knows who will be saved, and he has known since the beginning. Unfortunately, many fundamentalist Christians do believe that you have a license to sin once you're saved. What they don't understand is that they may not be saved, and if they find that they are still inclined to lead a life of sin after their supposed repentance, they should really consider the possibility that they aren't.

[knitter4democracy]

53. Many who call themselves Christians like to forget

Christ's warning: Many who say to me, "Lord, Lord," will not enter the kingdom of heaven. That's often taken to mean that many who think they're Christian will find out at Judgement that they aren't.

That's why we Orthodox always pray for mercy and choose not to say who's going to Heaven and who isn't. We don't know, and we were also warned not to judge.

[Must_B_Free]

48. Psychological trauma induced to get one to relinquish control

In this process, the ego is effectively fissured off or suppressed in ones personality, leaving a void open for authoritarian control of ones thoughts, beliefs and actions.

Many Christians prey upon people in susceptable times and feed them an "answer" to everything. They produce converts who are "born again" into the faith.

Korea has a large population of born again Christians conscripted from the trauma of Japanese occupation.

The armed forces use the tactic of shaving ones head to acheive the same sort of effect of indoctrination.

[shawn703]

49. I'm a Southern Baptist, and this is what it means to us

We believe that everyone is a sinner, and are born into sin. When a sinner repents and is baptized, he is said to be dead to sin and alive in Jesus Christ. When you're saved, you're old self (which was ruled by the flesh and controlled by Satan) dies and your new self is born united with the Holy Spirit. This new self, once united with the Holy Spirit and protected by the blood of Jesus Christ, can never again be lost to Satan and is guaranteed salvation.

This doctrine of eternal security is not part of all the Christian denominations, as I'm sure Catholics believe you can lose your salvation and therefore require that you confess your sins and be absolved of them by a priest or risk not getting to Heaven.

[ElkHunter]

51. CBHagman and the Boss...

...hit it exactly right. It's a reference to the Biblical passage ""...Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3). It means that a person must make a personal, conscious decision for Jesus Christ. However, many of the older Christian demoninations, like Lutherans, reject such "decisional" theology arguing instead that we do not choose God, but that God chooses us. Against the Baptist view the Lutheran would insist that we cannot make a "decision" for God until God first gives us the faith to do so. Therefore any such decision is not an act of "free will." But it goes without saying that it is the Baptist view that is predominate in America today.

[noonwitch]

54. The context of John 3

Jesus is talking to Nicodemus, an educated Pharisee who likes to talk to Jesus about religion. Jesus tells him that he must be born again, to enter the kingdom of heaven. Nicodemus says, how is it possible for an old man to re-enter his mother's womb and be born again. Jesus tells him, you must be born of spirit and water to see the kingdom of heaven.

I don't know about the water part, but the spirit part could mean more than what evangelicals present. Evangelicals see being born again as a moment in time in which one accepts Jesus as their personal savior and all their sins are wiped away.

I don't interpret it quite the same way. I see spiritual awareness as a gradual process, that continually unfolds throughout our lives. It's not any less born again, but it doesn't happen in one minute.

I'm more of a new ager, anyways. I believe forgiveness is not about so much about God forgiving me, it's about me forgiving people who have wronged me so that I am free of the negative emotions and anger that cloud my judgement and mess up my life. "A Course In Miracles" and the sermon on the mount are my guides for life.