LOL! Freep heckler put in headlock by fed-up democrats!

[UdoKier]

http://www.wkrn.com/Global/story.asp?S=2274529

It's about time...

[skypilot]

1. "Take that, you 'girlie man'!!!!"

*

[AspenRose]

14. Hee hee, "I got your 'girlie man' right here, bub!"

"We're mad as hell and we're not going to take it anymore."

I bet he'll think twice before attending another union event...those guys don't play.

[calimary]

2. The story says this guy is listed as a spokesman for the

"swift boat swifties." Mike Russell I think is his name. Asshole. I'm glad they took care of him.

[diamond14]

3. GO AMERICA !!!! We love you, SHEET METAL WORKERS of America

when one asshole wrecks an event for thousands of Patriots....good to see the BIG GUYS STANDING UP and taking back our country from the bush* brownshirts....

[daddybear]

4. Just GOTTA....

HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[Mandate My Ass]

5. Nobody should resort to violence IMHO.

Let them heckle. At least Kerry can handle it unlike the thin-skinned little chimp.

THis is wrong no matter which side does it.

[SotarrTheWizard]

9. Agreed.

. . .it makes us look like bullies. And we KNOW who the REAL bullies are. . .

[UdoKier]

10. Yeah, yeah.

I'm sure the guy was ready to face the music for whatever assault charges may be filed.

Repugs have gotten way too big for their britches, and think that democrats will never fight back. They need to be reminded that there is some fight left in us yet.

"Violence is wrong" - So is war, but we do that. The repugs' economi policies are a form of violence that takes food from the mouths of our poorest kids and deprives them of a good education. A bloody nose never killed anyone, and if a pissed-off democrat is willing to spend a night in jail for it, more power to him.

[G_j]

30. for me MLK carries more weight, (no offense)

If you succumb to the temptation of using violence in the struggle, unborn generations will be the recipients of a long and desolate night of bitterness, and your chief legacy to the future will be an endless reign of meaningless chaos.

- Martin Luther King Jr., "Justice Without Violence", 4.3.57
--------------------

www.thekingcenter.org/prog/non/6principles.html

Derived from "Pilgrimage to Nonviolence" in Dr. King's book Stride Toward Freedom, Harper & Row, 1958.

Martin Luther King- Six Principles Of Nonviolence

--Nonviolence is a way of life for courageous people. It is active nonviolent resistance to evil...

--Nonviolence seeks to win friendship and understanding. The end result of nonviolence is redemption and reconciliation...

--Nonviolence seeks to defeat injustice, not people. Nonviolence recognizes that evil doers are also victims.

--Nonviolence holds that suffering can educate and transform. Nonviolence willingly accepts the consequences of its acts...

--Nonviolence chooses love instead of hate. Nonviolence resists violence of the spirit as well as the body. Nonviolent love is active, not passive. Nonviolent love does not sink to the level of the hater. Love restores community and resists injustice.

--Nonviolence recognizes the fact that all life is interrelated.
Nonviolence believes that the universe is on the side of justice. The nonviolent resister has deep faith that justice will eventually win.

Six Steps for Nonviolent Social Change

--Information Gathering: In order to understand and articulate the issue, problem or injustice facing the community, you much first research, investigate and gather all vital information that will increase your understanding of the problem. Know all sides of the issue, including the other party's position.

--Education: It is essential to inform others about your issue. This minimizes misunderstandings, and gains you support and sympathy.

--Personal Commitment: Eliminate hidden motives and prepare yourself to accept suffering, if necessary, in your work for justice.

--Negotiation: Using grace, humor and intelligence, confront the other party with a list of injustices and a plan for addressing and resolving these injustices. Nonviolent communication does not seek to humiliate, but to call forth the good in an opponent.

--Direct Action: Used to morally force the opponent to work with you in resolving the injustices, direct action imposes a "creative tension" into the conflict.

--Reconciliation: Nonviolence does not seek to defeat the opponent, but to seek his/her friendship and understanding. It is directed against evil systems, forces, policies and acts not against persons.
------------------------

[UdoKier]

36. And look what it got Martin...

Dead, and his march to end poverty was not achieved.

There is a limit to turning the other cheek.

The right has essentially declared all-out war on the poor and working classes in this country, and are pushing ever-increasing numbers of middle-class people down into poverty. How does one reconcile with people who would take food off your table so they can afford to buy ANOTHER mink-lined toilet seat cover?

We are being stripped of what little power and redress we have, and pretty soon all that will be left will be nonviolence or civil war.

And I'm pretty sure the rich, in their walled enclaves and their tank-like vehicles will not listen to nonviolent protest.

Dr. King was wrong.

[G_j]

38. "Dr. King was wrong."

and we should follow your sage advice...why?

[UdoKier]

42. You can follow whoever's advice you like.

But in 10 years, when the tanks are bulldozing the nonviolent folks protesting a 70% poverty rate and 30% unemployment, I for one will not be sitting legs crossed singing kumbayah. I will fight back.

You think those people you see throwing molotovs down in S. America are just "thugs", or "ignorant"? They have tried everything to get through to the ruling elites and been ignored as they sink into more poverty. They have been pushed beyond the brink.

It's coming here, and GOP policies are bringing it on that much faster.

I wonder how long you'll sing that pious tune after a few years of the new 3rd world America. Or, if you're lucky enough to keep your job, will you go over to their side, disgusted by the growing mobs of angry poor people who've become unable to contain their anger? "Ew, so dirty and chaotic! Yuk!"

[mitchum]

46. And I will be right there with you, UdoKier

Even Gandhi said that non-violence must be used wisely. His tactics worked against the British, but he acknowledged that they would not have worked with the Nazis. Nor will passive resistance work with our homegrown fascists

[G_j]

48. you fail to say

how your will accomplish anything besides venting your anger and frustration.
You tell me about 'the poor' like I don't know about poverty and then neglect to offer any explanation of how violence will eliminate poverty.

pious? "sitting legs crossed singing kumbayah" wow, isn't that one of Rush's favorites?
btw. Since you didn't bother to read MLK's quotes, his practice of NV is not passive but active.

[UdoKier]

52. I did read them.

You want me to reach out in friendship to those who are hell-bent on destroying our country from within? Who have murdered thousands in Iraq for no reason with no compunction whatsoever? No.

I am not calling for violence as a first resort. If I was, I'd be out attacking come bank building or something.

I'm saying that there is a limit to what people will take. If the Bushies keep steamrolling this country unobstructed, there WILL be violence eventually, no matter what I do.

As for the headlock guy, I choose to think of it as "tough love". Obviously you think of any physical contact as violence. He was clearly not trying to injure the worthless bastard. If he had hit him on the head with a bat, I'd be condemning it here. (and inwardly laughing, probably.) There's no law against schädenfreude, is there?

Hopefully the freep loon learned a lesson.

[Selwynn]

57. Oh yes, I'm sure it changed his mind /sarcasm

Yes, I'm sure that the violence of someone else cause him to say, "you know what I was sure I was doing the right thing but now that I've been assaulted I suddenly see the error of my ways and vow to fight for Democratic principles from this day on.

:eyes:

If there's anything history has shown is, its that violence has the absolute opposite effect - it escalates retaliation, polarizes people, and causes people to entrench themselves more deeply in their belief.

The only thing that this kind of petty violence does is make the perpetrator feel better. It is the most selfish and disingenuous thing a person can do. And those who glorify it have an embarrassing lack of historical perspective or critical reasoning capacity.

[G_j]

59. in fact it is so effective

that the FBI planted numerous agents in progressive organizations throughout the sixties to advocate the use of violence.

[UdoKier]

63. They probably still do it to a degree today - remember Judi Bari.

I guess you're right. It would be much better if no liberal ever raised a hand in anger to a right-winger. Then it would only be them committing violent acts! (sarcasm)

Like almost ALL liberals, I abhor violence, but there is a limit to how much I think we should have to take before striking back.

Policemen put better people than that freeper in headlocks all the time.

As we look forward to a future where wars over resources and space are only going to become more common as the population continues to grow, I would hope that everybody on earth would follow the principles you lay out, but they won't - you know that.

And by the way, you act as though a physical assault is the worst kind of attack on a person. I submit that shipping a community's entire job base overseas to save a few bucks is a much greater atrocity than a headlock. I'd much rather take a few shots to the face than lose the job that feeds my kids, and yet as I read of thousands of new layoffs EVERY DAMN WEEK, I hear NO outrage from the media, and very little of it here at DU. God forbid Schwarzenegger say "girly-man" - THAT'S a huge offense, but thousands of kids with parents suddenly on the dole - barely even a blip. What has happened to this party's priorities? I know it's another issue, but it is a big root of the anger. Working people's issues are being largely ignored in favor of "sexier" ones, whether it be gays, minorities, or abortion. I'm on the right side of these issues, too, but our economic security is much more immediate a problem.

But I guess you don't have those kind of worries, given your lack of even lip service to them. It must be nice to be comfortable enough to be able to afford iron-clad principles.

[G_j]

78. you lost me

Jobs?
I lost mine too, I am presently unemployed and it has not crossed my mind even once that hitting a freeper upside would put food on my table or make me feel any better.

As far as the headlock bit, I stated in a post below that I doubt if the guy was hurt in any way. My concern comes from comments by various people that he should have had his ass kicked etc.
Just loose talk without a lot of thought, at least that is how it sounds to me. This particular person did not assault anyone, he was yelling.

Presently I work with some pretty serious hard core activists including Anarchists and you are not going to find them involved in counterproductive street brawls. Self defense is one thing, fighting is another. Freepers are assholes as a rule, but there are plenty of assholes in the world. One can go to any bar or sports event and get in a fight with one.

All I have done here at DU in a few threads is offer some quotes from MLK in response to comments about butt kicking. As to be expected I suppose, I have received a some minor lectures implying that I don't understand whats going on out there and live in some kind of bubble. not the case

I trust our goals are the same, to bring about real positive change, educate people and eject the fascists from power.

peace

[UdoKier]

88. Peace back atcha.

And I'm sorry to hear you're thinking of leaving the country.

I myself am employed but not making ends meet, so I have a great deal of sympathy with the 40% of the population that actually has to survive on LESS than the pittance I earn.

Take care.

[sffreeways]

97. So what do you say

about the Nazi comment ? I'm truly curious. Is there in fact a limit when violence becomes inevitable and/or necessary ?

Could it be that the man was reacting to the intruder with fear rather than gratuitous violence ? Perhaps fear that he would hurt the candidate ? I'm talking spontaneous reaction because I can see a situation where as someone at one of these rallies that begins to shout angrily could startle someone sitting close by especially in the climate of fear the Bush administration has created.

I feel this way about some of the republican reactions to protesters too. Not the creep that was kicking the woman he pulled to the floor or the losers that wrap their greasy hands around protesters faces to keep them silent.

It looks more like a reaction to something out of place that generates a fearful response rather than an assault because it's the opposition.

How should protesters that disrupt these rallies on either side be handled ?

[NightTrain]

103. Tell SWAPO and the ANC that violence is never acceptable.

If they thought as you do, black South Africans would still be living under Apartheid.

[Andromeda]

79. Spot on, UdoKier!

You can only take so much and when you've had it up to HERE, it's time to fight back!

MLK's philosophy helped thousands gain civil rights and that was good, BUT You have to fight like hell to keep them!

[Pow_Wow]

84. and just exactly

who are you fighting to keep those civil rights? Ashcroft? The Police? Congress who gave you the PATRIOT act?

[Selwynn]

56. yeah, it got "him" the greatest single advance in civil liberties ...

..since the civil war, as well as a permanent place of respect and honor in history, as well as millions of people whose lives have been directly touched and changed by his mindset and actions.

Dr. King was not "wrong" then he said "real peace is not just the absence of conflict, it is the presense of justice." It doesn't matter what you win if you sacrifice every moral principle on the way to "winning."

[UdoKier]

77. It also got him dead.

And millions of blacks and whites still live in dire poverty. How does Colin Powell being S.o.S. or Oprah Winfrey having a billion dollars help ANY of them? Our cities are still segregated, black unemployment is still double that of whites. Why is it most of the "progress" we get on all these things is largely symbolic, whereas the backtracking on the social contract, labor rights, wages, etc. has been pronounced and concrete.

Why is a decent wage for all worrking people not seen as a civil rights issue?

Hell, that's why MLK probably got killed. After the Civil Rights Act was passed, he turned his focus to poverty, not just black, but all colors. Actually, the fact that he was killed for raising the issue supports your contention that his movement was working and that "they" feared him.

To be fair, Huey Newton also got dead, so I can't claim my way always works.

Also, in spite of Gandhi's nonviolence, the hideous caste system still exists in India, with the lower castes living in conditions that would make the most impoverished of Americans retch.

There is a time to fight back. I just know it. There is an exception to every rule.

[Selwynn]

86. Some things are worth dying for.

Trying to ignore the significance of the civil rights movement or the greatness of someone like Dr. King just because you're pissed off and think its time to hurt people is about as ridiculous as the flat earth society. It ignore the facts. Of course there are still problems, no one said otherwise, but the impact of Dr. King is still felt, and he remains inarguably, by any rational person, one of the most important and influential figures of the 20th century.

Its disgusting to try to minimize the reality of his impact on society just to make a point. Black people that I personally know old enough to have lived before the 1960s don't share your total denial of the seriously significant changes that the civil rights movement brought. Of course there are still problems, and of course current administrations like this one slip us backward, but that's not the same as minimizing the impact of King or the civil rights movement of the 60s.

The same thing is true in the case of Gandhi as well, though its clear you know next to nothing about that history. Gandhi's nonviolence non-compliance was resistance to colonial rule - and it did prevail.

Your "there is a time to fight back, there is an exception to every rule" thing doesn't work well either because there is not an exception to every rule. Rape is wrong. It will never be "not" wrong. But this isn't about pacifism. This isn't about whether or not there is ever a need to use force. That's not what some fucking dumbass abusing someone else just because he doesn't agree is all about. That is about acting exactly like everything I reject of the neoconservative tyranny.

Taking up all the weapons of our enemies and becoming just like them is wrong - not only morally but also strategically. Resisting Tyranny, even with force may be necessary, but BECOMING THE TYRANNY is the ultimate danger. When we start to act just like the other guy, we become the "other guys."

Beating up on a protester is a thuglian bullshit tactic. It's not about justice, its not about standing strong, its not about doing the right thing. It's about being pissed off and an idiot moron who decided to act exactly like a neo-conservative thug when they believe that if you exercise your right to free speech and free expression you should be beat up and thrown out of the country.

That's all this is about. This isn't about whether or not there is every any time to use force. It is not about pacifism. It is about justice. It is about ACTING OUT IN REAL LIFE the principles you pay lip service to. It's about not just trading tyrannies or idiot asshole bully regimes, but rather ousting that crap and establishing in its place something truly more just and humane and right. Going around acting exactly like the tyranny just makes you the tyranny.

[UdoKier]

87. I'm no more trying to minimize Dr. King's impact...

...than you are trying to minimize the REAL problem (IMO), which is poverty, which has NEVER really been addressed in any meaningful way.

You talk about changes in civil rights laws and colonial rule as though they made some difference in people's everyday lives, and my point is that they did not. They were gains on paper that did little to alleviate the suffering of the truly desparate. Sure, the civil rights movement has been good for educated and middle-class blacks, who now have more job opportunities and can sit down at a lunch counter without fear, but what about the truly poor of every color in this country?

And Gandhi WAS opposed to the injustices of the caste system, and was unable to stop them, so again, the wealthy and educated Indians took control of India while the lower-caste people continued to suffer EXACTLY as they had under British rule.

Point being that so many of these nonviolent movements are middle and upper-class in origin and the benefits of whatever succcess they produce go almost exclusively to the bourgeoise that birthed them. (Of course that's also the case with many violent uprrisings, too.)

As you well know, we are SO far from "becoming the tyranny" that at this point it is not a concern to me. The sheetmetal worker comes from a place of almost no power, whereas the freep, whether he is a wealthy jackass or a poor fool, has chosen to suck up to power and go and ridicule those who will not.

I fully respect your opinion, and that of many others who have said the same thing, and I personally intend to remain completely nonviolent unless conditions absolutely dictate otherwise.

I'm not saying I would have done the same thing as the sheeetmetal worker. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have. Then again, the article is unclear. It says that A NUMBER OF PEOPLE WERE RESTRAINING the freeper, so I really wouldn't be surprised if he had started something more than just heckling to be restrained that way.

I'm not going to belabor it anymore, but I sincerely believe that the principles you and others have espoused, while truly noble are a luxury. Only people who are secure in their homes, in their livelihoods have the luxury of sticking to them absolutely.

I wish this were the kind of world you apparently think it is, where the hungry will get fed, if they only make their concerns known through proper channels or through nonviolent resistance. But I've seen countless examples where it simply has not happened. The only reason the modest gains achieved by Dr. King and Gandhi are so noteworthy is precisely because such success is so rare. I participated in several marches/protests to try and stop the Iraq war, knowing full well that it WOULD NOT STOP Bush, but I didn't want it to go down in the history books that the American people consented to it by their silence. Even millions of people around the world in peaceful protest didn't change a thing.

I know my message is a bit schizophrenic on this point, because I don't entirely disagree with you. What is it they say about consistency being the hobgoblin of little minds?

Last, this nation was founded on a violent overthrow of colonial power. Do you think the rich landowners who decided they no longer wanted to be a part of England could have done so without inciting the common people to violence?

We also killed half a million forcing the south to stay in the union. Could that have been done without violence? Maybe we should have let them stay seceded. We'd at least have single-payer healthcare today...

If you will state that those conflicts were wrong and should have been solved with peaceful means, I'll just let this go. But if you honor those fights and their fruits, then you must concede the possibility that the US as a civil society may be a thing of the past and that we may concievably end up having to fight in order to regain it.

[Selwynn]

95. You don't know anything about me...

..if you think I'm minimizing poverty in any way shape or form. But neither should you minimize the civil rights movement or the things that came from it. But none of that is the actual point. You're also wrong in saying that nothing changed because of Gandhi's resistance or in over emphasizing the focus on the caste system, but that is also beside the point.

The point here is that this kind of stupid action is not glorious, or noble, or about starting a revolution - its about one guy acting like a fucking asshole and doing exactly what I've come to despise from neo-conservative thugs. There's nothing Nobel in that, there's nothing in that about "fighting back" All there is in that is just asshole behavior. That's what I said before which you totally ignored. I'm not interested in having a philosophical debate with you about whether violence is *EVER* justified right now. I am interested in saying that glorifying *THIS INSTANCE* of thuggery because its "time we fight back" is disgusting to me. This isn't some valiant resistance of tyranny that happened here. This is one man acting like an asshole to someone else exercising their first amendment rights. And guess what, I believe in those rights, more than I believe in a party. I believe in those rights even for those who try to undermine those rights.

This wasn't a great blow for "tough love" justice - it was merely an asshole acting exactly like every thing I detest of neo-conservative thuggery, I don't know how to make it any more plain than that to you.

I have very simple points which DO NOT include the argument that only pacifism is ever justified. My points are these:

1. Martin Luther King was a significant figure in history who make serious and lasting contributions to the betterment of this nation, even though those contributions are always at risk and are far, far from complete - to dismiss those contributions with a comment like "look what it got him" is dismissive and insulting. The reality of Kings championing of the issues of economic equality, successful or unsuccessful is irrelevant to the reality of his serious contribution to the the civil rights movement. Poverty is not irrelevant to me, economic Justice is something I really believe in, but its not relevant to this discussion.

2. While there may be a time an a place for force, it is not appropriate to glorify any act of thuggery in the name of "fighting back" - it is not appropriate to go act exactly like the very people we oppose - when you do that, you become one of them, and I oppose you too. Stating that is not an all or nothing statement - it is not saying that violence is never ever necessary nor is it saying that in every case pacifism is the only proper way. What it is saying however is that not ALL violence should be excused or justified in the name of "fight back" to people we don't like. Acting like fucking assholes is not "just" I don't give a fuck what your "cause" is. You want to take up arms and go try to overthrow people in power? Great. You want to take up arms and go break into the homes of some "freepers" you dont like to smash their stuff, beat up their families and rape their women? Then you ought to die.

Just because we think they're wrong doesn't give us the right to start acting exactly like them, that's what I'm saying. But if you want to do that, have fun - you become part of the problem, not part of the solution in my book, and I will resist you in every way I can.

Sel

[UdoKier]

96. Well, as I said, I wouldn't have done what he did.

And I won't specifically defend what he did. However, I won't condemn it.

I follow what you're saying, and I agree that our becoming bullies is not going to do anyone any good.

I've come to a pretty cynical point where I seriously don't think that this country can be saved without eventual violent uprisings. I still hold out a slim hope, but the republican party has dedicated itself to completely destroying any financial security the working classes in this country, and the democratic party has basically only tried to slow down the process slightly.

You talk a good talk about what shouldn't be done, and why we shouldn't emulate their shocktroops, but do you know of any solution, when we have 2 parties that really don't care about helping those who need it most? When a few hundred well-funded lobbyists have more influence on our government that 3 million peaceful protesters in the street? When the corporate media singles out the few "wierdest looking" protesters to cement the image of the "other" in the minds of mom & pop middle america?

Do you think Air America or Al Gore's feeble attempt at a TV channel will do anything to turn the tide? I'm certainly not naive enough to think that aPresident Kerry will be an agent for real social change. I'm not going to try and promote or defend "violence" to you anymore, but do you know of any positive, constructive solutions? I mean something REAL, not some symbolic nonsense like Code Pink standing nude in the street? I'm not asking you this to be confrontational. It's a sincere question.

I can't think of a damn thing. how about you?

Anybody?

[Bunny]

15. Sorry Monica, but this is one of the few times that I have to disagree

with you.

That ass needed to be reminded to mind his manners. What he did was just not polite, and he was reminded of that by those nice sheet metal fellows in the audience.

I know that what you're saying is true, but I honestly have no problem with people being reminded of the rules of civility. He's not seriously hurt, and it isn't like six guys got him down and kicked the shit out of him.

If Bush can do it, so can we, and unfortunately, that's what we've come to.

[Mandate My Ass]

19. I do understand

and sympathize with the obvious provocation. Believe me I do. :hi:

[Bunny]

24. Provocateurs, indeed.

:hi:

[shanti]

71. so do you agree

with the hair pulling freeper at the *ushler event? if i'm following your logic...

[diamond14]

16. that bush* brownshirt was likely KICKING women & cursing in front of kids

there is a small child nearby, and I am certain that that SHEET METAL WORKER of America was doing his best to control the increasing VIOLENCE of the bush* brownshirts....

it's admirable....there's NOTHING wrong with that...looks like the bush* brownshirt got treated with kid-gloves compared to what they reTHUGlicans have beening doing across America - KICKING women, throwing bricks through Kerry office windows, screaming down a recovering from throat-surgery, 70 year old women....

it's time to put an end to the "bush* brownshirts" attacks....and if not now, when?

[G_j]

51. I seriously doubt that the guy was hurt in any way

my problem is with ppl who say he should have had his ass kicked or whatever. There is one thing for certain, the man was yelling not physically attacking anyone.

[el_gato]

18. boo fuckin' hoo

It's time we started kicking the shit out of these assholes.

[Mandate My Ass]

22. I'm not crying

for the leader of the smear vets. He's a character assassin and the lowest form of vermin in the repuke party.

I just think he could have been taken down by other means. :shrug:

[G_j]

33. how creative

that is one reason why I am thinking about leaving this country
:puke:

-------------------
If you succumb to the temptation of using violence in the struggle, unborn generations will be the recipients of a long and desolate night of bitterness, and your chief legacy to the future will be an endless reign of meaningless chaos.

- Martin Luther King Jr., "Justice Without Violence", 4.3.57
--------------------

[JohnnyRingo]

20. I don't endorse violence, but disrupting a union rally is no smarter...

...than spitting on a young, horny, war seasoned veteran returning from Vietnam. Retribution is guaranteed

Self preservation and common sense demand a second thought to such actions.

[rinsd]

27. Agreed.....

What I hate is the reveling in this and then people freaking out when idiots on the other side do it(of course those a--holes hit women instead of men)

[IdaBriggs]

28. I'm okay with it.

If he had wanted to ask a rude question during the Q&A, I could have been okay with that. Instead, he just wanted to disrupt the proceedings. Okay. Our protesters did the same thing in New York, and they got their butts handed to them. We now understand the rules. Welcome to Lesson the First. :)

[smirkymonkey]

53. True, but at least Democratic men go after men

and not women, like the cowardly Republicans do...

[RegexReader]

68. Violence begets violence

Some are saying that it is 'OK' that it didn't hurt him 'too much'. Now what is the issue if this guy worked at this plant in another section that plant?

It wouldn't hurt 'too much' if he just bumped a little of this guy's foot with a forklift? It wouldn't hurt 'too much' if this guy's lock-out tag disappeared off of a circuit breaker. And a hundred and one other 'accidents' won't hurt 'too much'.

Or the police show up to arrest him for assault and battery, and they have to hit him with their flashlights a couple of times for resisting arrest. That won't hurt him 'too much'.

Sorry, cannot support this one.

RegexReader

[MsMagnificent]

75. Too bad

there is just so much guff one can take before standing up and not being a Democratic door mat anymore!

I'm tired of being fair when the playing field isn't
and hasn't been for many many years!

Yep, so it was wrong, but I certainly understand what happened:
Simple Cause and Effect

I'll bet you he won't heckle again!
These type of repukes are bullies, and as such, are at heart cowards.
The heckler got exactly what he himself elicited -- do you not see that?
So Boo-Hoo-Hoo for him? Nah, I don't feel sorry for evil that has finally found its comeuppance.

Sign me;
Also sick of being walked on

[MsMagnificent]

76. BTW Look at this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2330983&mesg_id=2330983

DU posts and PICTURES of repukes abusing a woman at their convention.

Fuggit.
Karma can sometimes suck - but they earned it... and MUCH more.

[NightTrain]

102. That's all some people understand.

There was a punk in junior high school who made my life miserable for three full years. Know why he stopped? Because I finally hit my breaking point and beat the living fuck out of him.

You don't always catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar. Besides, why catch a fly when you can swat the aggravating son of a bitch?

[Hubert Flottz]

6. Hurt his wittle neck!

Those Freepers are SOOOOOOO sensitive! The GOPers beat up on girls and then bitch about this?

[YIMA]

7. I heard he was pressing charges.

Can anyone confirm yea or nay?

My guess is if he does, it'll be after the election.

[alittlelark]

8. I don't like seeing that.

I understand the man's anger at the heckler, but this will be all over the media, whereas the 'young republican' kicking the female protester at the GOP convention will not.

It's a lose-lose situation.

But I must admit, that I like the fact that the guy who got fed up is a unionized sheet metal worker!

[JohnnyRingo]

11. The guy popped up with a "sore neck" yesterday.....

....Good thing he's probably adamantly opposed to action by trial lawyers.

I'm guessing his case is "different".

on edit:
The first story on CNN mentioned the headlock.
Fifteen minutes later, it was changed to "took the heckler to the ground".

[JCMach1]

12. I wouldn't mess with the Union folks!!!

Seriously...

[On the Road]

13. To Paraphrase One of My "Favorite" Columnists,

Freepers have to understand that they can be physically harmed.

Time to break out the bludgeons and bricks.

[UdoKier]

21. Would that be "family values" Ann Coulter?

lol

[DrWeird]

17. Violence is the only thing these people understand.

(now where have I heard that before?)

[DemBones DemBones]

23. Letterman showed this last night!!! He made

a sarcastic comment about the "wisdom" of the guy mouthing off when surrounded by large sheet metal workers who have the opposite view from yours.

:7

[uncle ray]

25. yup

theres a little bit of difference being a loud mouthed man surrounded by union workers who use reasonable force to put you in line, kicking young women on the ground is another thing altogether.

fwiw, i did hear on npr that this was actually an invitation event for kerry, i wounder if everyone could get an invite or? something to be cleared up before the freeps way Kerry is doing the same thing as * loyalty oath.

[DemBones DemBones]

44. To my knowledge, all or most politicians

have both open rallies and invitation-only appearances. I have no problem with anyone, including Bush*, speaking before invitation-only groups as long as they also make speeches that are open to anyone. Bush* seems to now speak solely to invitation-only crowds ate events to which no one will be invited without proof of being a Bushie and that's antithetical to a free and open democratic society.

[Renew Deal]

26. Where was that learned? The RNC convention

[Sub Atomic]

29. This is the same guy that was owned the other day as well.

[mitchum]

47. Hell, is he a provocateur or a masochist?

I guess his heroes are The Chimp AND The Gimp

[smirkymonkey]

54. He even LOOKS like an asshole, sissy freeper.

...and yes, I can tell just by looking at them.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

61. Good catch! A stalker! Does the Secret Service have a file on him?

Keep an eye open for repeat hecklers at rallies.

Which two rallies were these?

[underseasurveyor]

62. I tell ya, That Bob Boudelang sure gets around don'he?

:evilgrin:
Just your everyday average angry american patriot ;-)

[GiovanniC]

70. 10:1 Odds This Guy is on the Bush/Cheney Campaign Payroll

Paid to follow Kerry around and heckle him.

[shanti]

72. that asshole is insane

look at his eyes.

[Citizen Daryl]

82. "Come and see the violence inherent in the system!"

"Help! Help! I'm being repressed!"

[GOPisEvil]

31. We can't have it both ways.

We can't condemn the asshat for grabbing and pulling the anti-Bush protestor's hair while at the same time condone the actions against the asshat pro-Bush protestor. The bottom line is that there should be security for these things. Crowds should call security in these cases.

[Qanisqineq]

34. exactly

hair pulling is no worse than putting this guy in a headlock

[DrWeird]

39. Sure we can.

They're bad. We're good.

[sportcat]

100. Really?

That's mature:eyes:

[gollygee]

58. I agree (m)

I was struck by the fact that this thread was right above the thread about the woman being pulled by the hair when I opened this forum. It's wrong in either case.

[greblc]

67. We don't have it both ways...

They wont let Kerry supporters into their Events.

We have to Fight Back. Sitting Idle has brought us to where we are now.

We have no representation.

They own the Senate, Congress, the White House and are looking to gobble up every seat they can.

What else should we give them?

This guy acted out because he has done it before and nobody stood up to him. Just like the GOP he supports.

[NightTrain]

105. We're not having it both ways.

There is a difference between mouthing off at a rally filled with tough-as-nails steelworkers and pulling a woman's hair from behind as security guards are apprehending her.

That moron should've suspected that those angry union members would react to his bullshit in some way. Would he walk through Harlem yelling the "N" word and not expect to have his ass kicked? :eyes:

[Carson]

32. The cognitive dissonance

of some of my fellow DU'ers is, at times, staggering. It's okay when "we" do it, just not when "they" do it.

[G_j]

35. yep

hypocrisy is nothing to be proud of.

[UdoKier]

37. You people act as though we still live in a civil society.

95% of the time, it's US getting stomped on, and the media couldn't care less. It's people like that union guy whose jobs are being shipped overseas. That in and of itself is not only anti-American, it's aviolent assault on the livelihood of working people.

The rich bastards who run the GOP never have to worry about their next meal. Even if they lose a job, they have investments to live on for months or years until their next gig. It is OUR constituency that is powerless and vulnerable, so I will NOT condemn them for doing what any nightclub bouncer would do. The freep should be happy he left with his teeth.

[Protected]

40. Yeah, but we still shouldn't be hypocrites

When a heckler at a Kerry event gets removed with a lot of force it's "HAHA! Look at that guy get smacked down! You go steel mill workers! LOL!"

And then when somebody on our side gets pushed around it's "Oh!! Those people are evil! How dare they do something like that!"

Come on folks. :eyes:

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[UdoKier]

45. I've got something for you to "google" right here.

I don't know why I'm bothering to respond to you, as obvious as you are, but here goes...

"Is it so wrong to put money aside, investing it in the economy, and using the return on that to provide for oneself? Or should we just pummel them and take their money?"

Did I say anything about that? I'm talking about the rich using the government as a vehicle to deliberately defund all social services, public schools, and deliberately impoverish the lower classes to keep down wage pressures, so that the poor will have to compete over crappy jobs. I'm talking about them giving TAX BREAKS to outsource. THEIR companies use the public roads to distribute their goods, they use the military to protect their assets, or sometimes even secure them, so YES, they should be expected to pay their share.

Anyway, you're entitled to yourr "opinion". It's a "free republic" isn't it?

[mitchum]

49. Now where have I heard that economic theory before?

Hmmm........
And in answer to your last sentence:
Up against the wall with those motherfuckers

[thethinker]

43. At least it is a man in the headlock

At least it is a man in the headlock. So far, the Republicans have attacked three different Democratic women.

I really hope everyone of the women file lawsuits.

[SideshowScott]

50. You cant have it both ways..Fight back or be a doormat..

I mean how many times have you heard..We need to fight back and show some backbone..Then when it happens and we push back people freak. We need to show these GOP bully's that we will not be intimidated and will not be shouted down and bullyed into silence. Hey he was not punched or even killed like what has happened to people who have vocally opposed Bush and the GOP in the past.
I'm sorry i cant help but crack a smile when I saw the loudmouth put in a neckgrab..What i was thinking though is " that man will need a trial lawyer! " heh..
No its not the way I would want things done but they started it.

[slor]

55. Anybody have the video?

I would love to see it.

[underseasurveyor]

60. That is just so wrong.

But it's funnier than hell.........ROTF And who really wants to be "right" anyway;-) bwahahahahahaha
The time has arrived, NOT to get even but to get a head.

Precious picture, 'oh don't hurt me:cry:don't hurt me waaaaaah'.
Whiners:evilgrin:

[UdoKier]

64. More details on the story...

http://www.wcpo.com/news/2004/local/09/08/kerry_eve.html

One of those opponents disrupted Senator Kerry's speech.

As Kerry began to speak, a man stood up and began shouting about "atrocities."

Michael Russel, 48-years old, of Foster, Kentucky, tried to shout out a question about whether Kerry had participated in any Vietnam war atrocities.

Russell, a former Bracken County Republican candidate, was immediately restrained by two nearby Kerry supporters, while another man put him in a head lock, before Russell was led away.

The incident gave the senator an opportunity to speak about the nation as a whole.

"I think what we need more than anything today, in this great country of ours," said Kerry, "is a conversation, a talk -- American to American.

"Not about what divides each other," Kerry said, "We need leadership that doesn't look for the lowest common denominator, but for the highest common denominator."


Those who have been condemning this act of "violence" should at least be pleased at Kerry's conciliatory tone.

The republicans will probably respond with some joke about Kerry & Edwards having an affair, or something along those lines - but HEY! let's be conciliatory! We're democrats!

Bipartisanship in 2004: Democrats compromise, republicans gloat.

[greblc]

65. If it's wrong to beat a freeper's ass.

Then why does the Idea appeal to so many of us? A sit down protest would get plenty of laughs from those on the right. The problem is they are Bullies.
And they will roll right over you and chuckle about it. They just don't have much reguard for those who think different than they do.

[jackieforthedems]

66. All's Fair

in love and war - lol!

[jdj]

69. Don't fuck with the sheet metal workers!!! Woohoo!

[Swamp Rat]

73. We are in a Civil War of and about Civility.

[Tsiyu]

74. Pacifism is Wonderful

work if you can get it. I agree that the high road is the one to take if at all possible.

Today, we are at war for our nation, and anyone on this board who does not see that is blind or in denial. The founding Pops made sure to create a system of Checks and Balances designed to keep any one person or faction from gaining absolute power. They loathed and feared the power of the monarchs they had left behind.

They did not secure this nation, or our Constitution, or any of the freedoms we enjoy today by merely "peacefully protesting."

When the body is sick, you can use a slow herbal approach to restore health. When it is REALLY sick, violent confrontation with heinous concoctions sometimes is necessary. Our United States are sick, and some of us will have to stand up to the bullies. We'll be glad to do it for those of you who, by nature and spirit, are not up to such action.

[cleofus1]

80. OK folks...check this out....

There are the type of liberals who take the high road and would never do bad things based on prinicpals...

Then there are liberals like me...who would kick his ass and when he's down kick him in the head...and not even feel bad about it the next day.

Does violence work? Sometimes it does...sometimes it doesn't...the point is...if you allow someone to physically intimidate you with impunity...the aggressor will lose respect for you and feel it is his duty to kick your ass. I personally prefer to be the kicker and not the kick-eee.

[Pow_Wow]

83. well, we now have a new defination of Liberal

"when he's down kick him in the head..."

:scared::scared:

[cleofus1]

85. so sad....

I said there were two types....you are obviously the pacifist type of liberal (which is OK)...
Good for you! I salute your ability to take a lickin with your head held high.
I'm the dark side of liberalism. I support physical reprisals when met with the forceful ignorance of freeper sturm troopers.
I can't help it...it's the way I was raised.

[Pow_Wow]

93. sounds like you make a distinction between reprisal & self defense..

if you can morally defend in your mind & heart, reprisal as opposed to self defense that is one thing.

It is quite another to merely claim "I can't help it...it's the way I was raised."
People use that to excuse all sorts of things. The KKK can claim "it's the way I was raised".

[Citizen Daryl]

81. At least we beat up on someone our own size ...

... unlike the jackboots at Bush rallies:



EDIT: And isn't that guy who kicked the female protester at the RNC convention Laura Schlessinger's SON?

Nice parenting, mom.

[MsTryska]

89. Someone stated that the hairpuller said he was a lifelong Dem...

any confirmation on that?

[Kathy in Cambridge]

90. You have to sign a loyalty oath to attend a Bush rally

so I severely doubt the fat old white guy is a Dem.

[MsTryska]

91. well one has to admit

that his demographic certainly pre-disposes him to be a republican. but who knows? Incidentally it's a rabid republican trying to tell me the guy is a dem, so i'm taking it with a grain of salt til he proves it.

[Yupster]

98. Both pictures the same to me

Someone grabbing someone else from behind -- like a coward.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

92. Now that FReeper is a "girlie man".

[K8-EEE]

94. KICK!! And punch and in general...

enough of these people, fucking repukes, they don't want any debate or conversation or elections, what's their fucking problem?? LET THE CANDIDATE SPEAK!

[bo44]

99. Awright Awright there's not E in potato now lemme go

[NightTrain]

101. This is why I just LOVE organized labor!!!

GO UNION!!! :kick:

[Zinfandel]

104. Union busting & hating Republican's don't fuck with UNIONS!!

Unions are the ONLY thing that protects workers rights, safety, wages, and health care! Surely not management, corporations or the Republicans.

[NightTrain]

106. You are correct, Brother Z!

Or is it, "Sister Z?" I've never seen your profile. :shrug:

[Zinfandel]

107. Brother BuZZZ is fine...