How long do we let this Freeper thread run? (RE: TANG memos)

[a_random_joel]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1210987/posts

The Freepers now have a 500+ post thread talking about the types of typewriters and fonts in use back in the day that the Killian memos were made.

They claim, based on these facts, that this proves the Killian memos are forgeries. Even though, I sh*t you not, one of the posts questions the use of zip codes on the memo:

To: TastyManatees
Perhaps someone else picked up on this, but in case they didn't, DID THEY HAVE ZIP CODES IN 1972? The letters all have a zip code at the top. I don't remember zip codes that far back.

575 posted on 09/09/2004 12:07:16 PM PDT by pie_eater

Now here's the thing. The White House has already released its own copies of these very memos. Andrew Sullivan's blog even admits this.

So how long do we let them keep ranting about Times Roman fonts and subscripts and "golfball" typewriters, before someone lets them in on the joke?

Or do we just let the damn thing run as long as it can and milk it for laughs same as the Freeper port-a-potty protest, or the LA Marathon turned 50K pro Freeper protest episodes...

[gratuitous]

1. ZIP Codes were instituted in 1963

US Postal Service web page:

http://zip4.usps.com/zip4/zipfaq.htm

They probably should know. Freepers are incredibly challenged by facts, history, and the truth.

[a_random_joel]

5. Exactly. we're supposed to trust their memory on typewriters and fonts...

When they can't even remember simple things like the use of zip codes?

Why am I not surprised.

[Renew Deal]

28. Bullshit. There were no zip codes in Alabama and Texas then.

:evilgrin:

[Media_Lies_Daily]

34. Sorry, but the Zip Code was implemented by the Post Office in 1963...

History of the Post Office Making The Mail Faster - Zip Codes
<http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/blmailus4.htm>

Excerpt:

"By July 1963, a five-digit code had been assigned to every address throughout the country. The first digit designated a broad geographical area of the United States, ranging from zero for the Northeast to nine for the far West. This was followed by two digits that more closely pinpointed population concentrations and those sectional centers accessible to common transportation networks. The final two digits designated small post offices or postal zones in larger zoned cities.

ZIP Code began on July 1, 1963, as scheduled. Use of the new code was not mandatory at first for anyone, but, in 1967, the Post Office required mailers of second- and third-class bulk mail to presort by ZIP Code."

[Renew Deal]

59. I was just kidding.

}(

[KBlagburn]

36. We had zip codes

I have lived in Alabama my whole life and yes we had a zip code.

[Renew Deal]

58. Just kidding around.

[NoPasaran]

37. 79924

That was our zipcode when we moved to El Paso, Texas in 1969.

[gratuitous]

46. I think Bleachers7 was kidding

I'm only going by the evilgrin in his post, so I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

[NoPasaran]

49. On reflection, you're probably right

I always have trouble interpreting the evilgrin smiley. It's never as clear as :beer: or :puke:

[Andy_Stephenson]

47. Mine in El Paso was

79912 in 1973.

[alittlelark]

2. Wow, those guys are whacked

and soooo desperate.

[Liberal Veteran]

3. Someone just needs to post in their thread this:

Since the WH released the EXACT SAME MEMOS yesterday, are you trying to say the administration is perpetuating a forgery on the public?

[skypilot]

32. And on itself.

:wtf:

[stanwyck]

40. Sit back and enjoy

the freeper feeding frenzy. Is this great or what? All this "font this" and "superscript that". These guys live for this. Really. They don't have girlfriends or jobs with responsibility. They don't read. Give them this. Let them conspiracy theory their little hearts out. It's fun to watch.

[democrat_patriot]

4. Let 'em run with it. Keeps it in the 'spotlight'.

Also keeps them busy running in circles, versus doing anything constructive.

[a_random_joel]

9. Good answer. Perhaps we need to start "planting" such ideas over there

to keep them occupied. Give them little busy work projects, make sure they can color in the between the lines...

The little Rove in me speaking.

[Wickerman]

6. Google can be such a friend

too bad the Freeps can't figure out how to use it.

[leftynyc]

7. I say let them rant and rave all they want

It'll make for good entertainment. Do you think they have any idea how ridiculous they sound?

[On the Road]

8. Let 'em Run -- It's Educational

I'm learning stuff from this. And apparently there WAS proportional spacing in 1972, even though I never personally used it.

[BurtWorm]

10. They must not have watched Zoom!

Zee Double Oh Em, Boston Mass, Oh Two One Three Four

[SPQR]

29. And don't forget the Spiegel catalogue:

Chicago six oh six oh nine.

[noamnety]

11. let's insert false hope

I don't have an account there any more, somehow I got banned after one post, but someone who can post there should mention some other (madeup) facts that prove it's a forgery just to keep them busy for a while.

Perhaps hint that the line spacing in the memo didn't follow the official military guidelines?

[a_random_joel]

16. Then throw them a bone about the use of "CYA"

That was not offical military jargon in the early 70s, right? (Wink, wink)

Then question the paper stock.

Let them burn through paper research...

Then the ink...



That thread could live for weeks.

[yellowcanine]

17. Great idea - one of them even questioned whether CYA was a term used

in the early 70s. Maybe someone could say that CYA was an expression first used in the movie "Jaws" that came out in 1975.

[a_random_joel]

19. I didn't even see that one. They beat me to it, damnit!

[gratuitous]

27. "CYA"? Doesn't that stand for . . .

Congressional Youth Action? Wasn't that the outfit 1st Lt. Bush was going to Alabama on behalf of?

Hee, hee, hee.

[Ducks In A Row]

12. Who cares?

They're defending a coward and a liar. A man who run and hide on 9/11 because he was pissing himself and they couldn't let him be seen crying and vomiting from fear.

[yellowcanine]

13. Zip Codes????? They are really grasping now. Even in rural PA we were

using zip codes in the 60s. For a official government agency not to be using zip codes in the early 70s would indeed be strange.

They are all wet on the fonts as well. There were mag card IBMs in the late 60s that could do all of the stuff they are flapping their gums about.

[napi21]

14. I say let the go. They're amusing themselves and staying out of

Kerry's hair. You gotta remember how hard it must be to see your fearless leader exposed as a fake. It's going to take a long time (if ever)for them to believe he could have ever done anything wrong.

[SidDithers]

15. I knew about the port-a-potty's, but not about the LA Marathon..

what's the back story with that one?

Sid

[a_random_joel]

18. They held a Freeper rally in the same day as the marathon

Along the marathon route. Then they started a thread claiming 50,000 people showed up to support the rally.

Only problem was that was the same number of people estimated to be spectating or participating in the marathon, including the runners.

There was a thread on here on old DU, where we all pasted pictures of footbal stadiums, or other shots of large groups of people, and claiming "Hugh Freeper Rally!"

I'll see if I can find the thread.

[SidDithers]

20. Hehehe

silly freepers.

Thanks for the history :toast:

Sid

[luaneryder]

21. Let them self destruct

[Cat Atomic]

22. Are you kidding? I hope they can prove those documents are forgeries.

After all, it's the White House that released them, and the subject at hand is whether the Bush family's political connections allowed him to exploit the system.

They're essentially arguing that Bush had his records scrubbed, to cover something more damning. I say let the idiots push it as far as they can. Maybe they'll even get the idea raised in the mainstream media. That'd be marvelous.

[EST]

24. You are correct

Maybe the whole thing comes down to their knowing, beyond doubt and much to our surprise, that the records were completely scrubbed, totally, irretrievably gone-nada. If that were true it would have to prove that any document's showing up would have to be forgeries, wouldn't it?

[Old and In the Way]

23. You know they're grasping at straws.......

http://www.etypewriters.com/history.htm

<>

Those little balls were the different fonts available....1971

[TeeYiYi]

51. Keep in mind . . .

. . . that the IBM Selectric was introduced in 1961. This ad is from 1962:



TYY

[Liberal Veteran]

25. Did they have the letter "s" in 1972? The letters all have "s" in them...

I don't remember the letter "s" that far back.

And did they have surnames?

And why isn't this letter written in the English of the day with "thees" and "thous" and such?

[Screaming Lord Byron]

30. Why isn't it written in Anglo-Saxon?

And where is the great seal of King Edmund? It's not official without that.

[Catherine Vincent]

33. ROTFL! You guys are hilarious!

[a_random_joel]

35. Ahhh!!! Primal Scream. Had to acknowledge that bit of Manchester ambrosia

[Screaming Lord Byron]

43. Thanks Joel. Haven't seen you in a while.

[a_random_joel]

54. Work... school... child... life...

Hope all is well with you!

[mitchum]

42. LOL!!!

very good :)

[denverbill]

26. That should last them a few days.

Of course, when they finally come to the realization that they are real, they'll have another way to rationalize it. Let's see, what will it be?

#1 - That Lt Colonel hated the Bush family.
#2 - Everybody did it back then. It's no big deal.
#3 - It was 30 years ago. What happened 30 years ago doesn't matter.


They did their character analysis of Bush 4 years ago. That character analysis found that Bush was a Republican, and therefore, anything he does is not only legal but praiseworthy. The fact that he used political connection to weasel his way into TANG, then shirked his duty, disobeyed direct orders, and didn't complete his tour doesn't matter.

Then they did their character analysis of John Kerry and found that he was a Democrat, therefore, anything he did was not only disgraceful but probably downright treasonous. The fact that he volunteered for 2 tours in Vietnam, won 3 Purple Hearts, Silver and Bronze Stars is discredited because a bunch of people who didn't serve with him claimed he didn't deserve the medals.

[0rganism]

31. as long as it possibly can -- jump in and stir the pot occasionally, eh?

The memos have already been vetted, count on it.

With a bit of encouragement, this thread could take them the better part of Thursday. By the time the freepers are done, they'll have verified that the memos are authentic, they'll have wasted hours of their time perusing antique IBM typewriter sites, and (best of all!) some of them will have splitting headaches.

Meanwhile, the newswhores can smell blood in the water on this one, and are circling hungrily around their prey. In a few days, Ivan will hit Florida, and all this will be forgotten. But this should do quite nicely to pump the ratings until then.

[rawstory]

38. Hard PROOF they're wrong, plus these 'news' sources run conservative orgs.

From RAW STORY: http://rawstory.com

Internet ‘journalist’ Matt Drudge has posted an extremist claim posing as news on his website, The Drudge Report, which suggests that the new documents that indict President Bush’s failures in the National Guard are actually fakes.

The source of his story, Cybercast News Service, is a well-known conservative ‘news’ machine headed by L. Brent Bozell III, who also serves as the head of the Conservative Victory Committee. CNS News was founded in 1988 to combat the “ liberal bias in many news outlets”.

<snip>

Mr. Bozell also serves as Executive Director of the Conservative Victory Committee (CVC). An independent multi-candidate political action committee, the CVC has helped to elect dozens of conservative candidates over the past ten years. He has also served as National Finance Chairman for the Buchanan for President campaign, and Finance Director and later President of the National Conservative Political Action Committee.

His other ‘news source’ is a conservative blogger, who sits on the board of directors for a conservative thinktank.

Powerline blog is associated with the Twin Cities Northern Alliance Radio Network, a loose association of self-avowed conservative radio shows and blogs based in Minneapolis and St. Paul. The author, Scott Johnson is an attorney based in St. Paul who is associated and has written extensively for the Center of the American Experiment, “Minnesota’s Conservative Thinktank.”

more at: http://www.bluelemur.com/index.php?p=291


http://www.bluelemur.com/index.php?p=291

[rawstory]

39. and the PROOF thread

from enyclopedic entry about this typewriter bullshit

Story cites false information

One of the primary claims of these conservatives is that the typewriter which would have been used could not produce superscripts, or have proportional type capability. An enycopedia entry on the machine shows otherwise.

The Selectric II had a Dual Pitch option to allow it to be switched (with a lever at the top left of the “carriage") between 10 and 12 characters per inch…

The Selectric II had a lever (above the right platen knob) that would allow the platen to be turned freely but return to the same vertical line (for inserting such symbols as subscripts and superscripts)….

(@ same link)

[Julian English]

41. Denial is a terrible thing

The Freepoids truly have a tenuous grasp on reality. Review the facts:

-CBS checked the documents
-The White House has not disowned them
-The documents are entirely consistent with the other documents that reveal Bush to be a draft dodger.

These and other factors speak the documents' authenticity.

Still, the Freepoids cannot accept the authenticity. To accept the fact that Bush lied about his TANG would threaten their world view. They would have to admit the President lied to them and played them for sucks. Imagine how painful that would be--to find out that your hero took advantage of you.

Hence, the willful ignorance. Better to believe a reality based on lies than to face a new, scary reality.

This sort of denial is just like the willful ignorance that allows the Freepoids to believe that they benefit under the Bush regime while they are being raped by the administration.

This degree of denial would be funny if these clueless clowns were not allowed to vote and if it did not reveal that so many people have such impaired thinking.

[Union Thug]

44. LMAO! These guys are funny!

[gpandas]

48. is that picture from 'FREAKS"? N/T

[Union Thug]

50. yes... it's a morph of our lil' george and Pinhead from FREAKS

[ElsewheresDaughter]

45. zip codes introduced and used in the 60's...these freeps need to stay.....

in skool

[Julian English]

52. What's really funny is that you can just google and find, for example,

IBM had proportional type typewriters in 1941
http://www-1.ibm.com/ibm/history/history/year_1941.html

Times New Roman is from 1932
http://www.linotype.com/7-510-7/stanleymorison.html

And--most importantly--the White House is not screaming "Forgery!"

[Kusala]

53. worried memos are fraud = admitting Bush is a fraud

Just by their concern that they're forgeries, they are admitting that their guy is a fraud and these memos prove it.

Of course, once they admit the memos are real(some of them will forever deny it), they'll just say they don't matter - that's what I keep hearing from freepnuts i know.

[henslee]

56. You are good.

[henslee]

55. And those post-its attached to the doc's are a dead give away!

Post-its were not invented until 1986! Checkmate.

[Walt Starr]

57. Hmmm, I wonder what documents use superscripting?

Let's see, obviously the CYA memo is:



And looking into Bush's documents here:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/2004-02-14-bush-docs.htm

We find a file called Miscellaneous here:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/bushdocs/9-Miscellaneous.pdf

Where a Form AF7 uses the same "th" superscript:

[BlackVelvetElvis]

60. 500 posts on this?

Amazing. Makes you wonder.