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I talked to hubby today about "assault weapons".

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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-04 11:39 PM
Original message
I talked to hubby today about "assault weapons".
He's a gun collector..sort of. He has a number of different guns from handguns to a 270cal rifle. I told him I couldn't understand the objection to banning assault guns. After a lot of discussion, he said he'd love to have an auto with a 100 shell capacity clip. I asked him if he would still want it if it wasn't operational. He said YES! I just want one to keep in my collection because it looks neat.

Now, I can't tell you if he's typical of a lot of others, but it does kind of put the "wanting them to cause harm" argumnt down.

All I want you to understnad is that gor some reason, guns are menataly very important to a lot of people. It's like any other collectible. I can't understand why some people collect beanie babies either, but they love them too.

Hubby is right when he says you really can't stop the wrong people from getting what ever they want.
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mark414 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-04 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. he is right
but it only gets easier when they're readily available to others
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LisaLynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-04 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
2. I don't know ...
Edited on Thu Sep-09-04 11:48 PM by LisaLynne
... your husband, but I know a lot of people who have that 'guns are cool' attitude. In fact, I used to be one. What I finally realized was that it really wasn't that I thought guns were cool. I really liked the power I thought they gave me. I thought they made me powerful. I thought they could keep anything bad from happening to me. But, the fact is, no matter how many kick-a** guns you have, you're still going to die. You could still get robbed. SOmebody could still kill you.

Sad, but true. Life is full of uncertainty. Guns don't solve that. Even automatic ones.

Just a thought.
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #2
25. Yup, no matter how well armed you are....
you could still be run over by a schoolbus full of nuns while you are in your bed, so you shouldn't own a gun.

Hopefully, most people will never be attacked in a life threatening manner. But which person would you give better odds of surviving? A person asleep in their bedroom who is woken up when when some transients break in with baseball bats and proceed to beat 5 of his or her friends to death with baseball bats over an X-box WITHOUT a gun in the nitestand or one WITH a gun in the nitestand that actually knows how to use it?

If you're being mugged by a crackhead with two prior felony convictions in a "three strikes" state that is armed with a knife, are your chances for survival better if you are unarmed, or if you have a permitted handgun and know how to use it?

Let's say you live in Florida, and were lucky enough to survive the first two hurricanes intact, when, during Ivan, some drug addicts decide that they're going to break into your house and "have some fun with you" while the police can't respond due to the trees being down and phone service being out. Would you rather be unarmed or have a gun and know how to use it?

Guns are not right for everybody. They take practice to be competent with them, and a certain personality type to be able to use them effectively. If you have the wrong personality type, and/or are unwilling to "keep current", guns are a pretty bad idea for you. But if you are competent with firearms, practice regularly, and aren't stupid, guns can, in a very bad situation, save your life and the lives of your family.



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LisaLynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. To clarify...
Seems like I'm clarifying a lot of posts tonight ...

DoNotRefill, I was only stating my personal experience that sometimes people think guns will keep them and their family safe from all harm. That's false. I didn't say nobody should own guns at all. I just think it's important to realize that owning a gun or arguing for restrictions on owning doesn't make you automatically safe from all harm.
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jean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-04 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
3. assault guns with 100 shell capacity clips way outrank beanie babies
in level of lethality.

I heard Mrs. Brady (Brady Bill) talking about the assault weapon ban on AAR today. If it expires, it'll be legal for 18 yr olds to buy long rifles although you still have to be 21 to buy a handgun. It'll be legal for gun shows to sell assault weapons and 100 clip rounds (whatever the term is) with no registration required (imagine how easy for terrorists, wanting to cause harm, to walk into said gun shows and stock up).

Your husband might be a not-wanting-to-cause-harm gun owner, but since Ashcroft has told us there are terrorists all over the country and to trust no one, AND since we already have a serious problem with gun violence at the hands of teens I want that ban to remain in place.

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FeebMaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Maybe you should read the AWB yourself
instead of listening to what Sarah Brady has to say about it.


If it expires, it'll be legal for 18 yr olds to buy long rifles although you still have to be 21 to buy a handgun.

That's already the law and has nothing to do with the AWB.


It'll be legal for gun shows to sell assault weapons and 100 clip rounds (whatever the term is) with no registration required (imagine how easy for terrorists, wanting to cause harm, to walk into said gun shows and stock up).

The AWB doesn't regulate gun shows and there is no current federal law that registers assault weapons. The only weapons currently required to be registered at the federal level are machine guns, destructive devices, silencers, and short barreled rifles and shotguns.

Terrorists prefer bombs, machine guns, and box cutters as weapons. They don't care about assault weapons.

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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. maybe, maybe not
They don't care about assault weapons. gang members do tho.
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FeebMaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Sure they do.
Nothing like a drive-by bayoneting to show a rival gang who's boss. :eyes:
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. ak-47 is what i'm referring to
:eyes:
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FeebMaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. The machine gun or the semi-auto knock off? (nt)
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NickB79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 02:40 AM
Response to Reply #17
28. Plenty of AK's in the local Dunham's Sporting Goods here
Of course, they're all semi-auto only knock-offs of the real thing, as are 99% of all the AK's in the US. The only changes they made to these AK's when the AWB went into place was they removed flash hiders and bayonet lugs, two pieces of metal that have absolutely nothing to do with killing power.
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jean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #6
14. thanks. I still want the ban to stand. How do you know terrorists don't
care about assault weapons? My impression is that, as a group, they are very fluid and flexible.
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FeebMaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #14
19. Why would they care about them?
Assuming a terrorist is going to buy a gun legally, they can just buy a post-ban weapon which is just as deadly as an assault weapon. The only difference, generally, is lack of a bayonet lug and flash suppressor and sometimes a folding stock. Of course, since folding stocks, flash suppressors, and bayonet lugs are legal to buy and own, a terrorist who really wanted them for some reason could add those to the weapon later, as long as he isn't worried about violating federal firearms law while doing it.

For that matter, if he were buying a gun legally, he could still buy an assault weapon since ones manufactured before the ban were grandfathered. They carry a bit of a premium in price over post-ban weapons since you can legally attach folding stocks, flash suppressors, and bayonets to them legally. After the ban sunsets that price difference will vanish, since those pre-ban assault weapons will just become used guns.

Why a terrorist would go through the trouble of buying a gun legally, I don't really know, since guns are widely available on the black market. If the terrorist wanted to buy the gun illegally, why would he even buy an assault weapon when machine guns are bought and sold on the black market at far lower prices than on the legal market?

Furthermore, why would a terrorist even want to bother using a gun when bombs are so much more deadly and terror inspiring?
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jean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. I bow to your knowledge of guns but still support the ban.
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FeebMaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. Whatever floats your boat.
But if you want some really effective gun control, I'd suggest letting the ban die and focusing on that.
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NickB79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 02:47 AM
Response to Reply #3
29. Nothing you stated has anything to do with the AWB
The age limits have been in place for decades: 18 to buy rifles and shotguns, 21 to buy handguns. That will still exist after the AWB expires Monday.

It has always been legal to sell assault-style weapons and 100 rd clips at gunshows, even with the AWB. These guns have never had to be registered, even under the AWB. They DO have to go through background checks when sold by gun dealers, EVEN AT GUN SHOWS. Just because a gun dealer isn't selling the gun from his/her store, that doesn't mean they aren't required by federal law from doing a background check via cellphone. The only thing that will change is that you can buy new high-capacity magazines again, rather than ones made before 1994 and grandfathered in (even though there are millions of AR and AK magazines currently in circulation already).

If a terrorist wanted to "stock up" on weapons, a farm supply store would be a MUCH better place to go. A few hundred pounds of fertilizer and a few large barrels of diesel fuel in the back of a van, and you have one hell of a suicide bomb. Notice how Tim McVeigh was a raving "gun nut" yet killed 168 people without a single bullet.
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T Town Jake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 03:58 AM
Response to Reply #3
31. Last I heard, Sara Brady was a Republican... n/t
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-04 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
4. While your hubby is right
maybe there are some people still on the fence who, if we make it difficult for them to get an automatic weapon, won't be able to go spray a classroom full of kids with bullets. Don't get me wrong I'm all for people owning guns but I don't see the point in having an AK47 in your house.
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FeebMaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. The Assault Weapons Ban doesn't regulate automatic weapons.
It only affects semi-automatic weapons. Fully-automatic weapons have been heavily regulated since 1934.
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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. Fully automatic weapons of any kind are and have been illlegal
since 1934. Full-auto weapons will remain illegal after the ban expires.
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FeebMaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. They aren't illegal.
They are perfectly legal to own at least at the federal level, although Reagan banned civilian manufacture of new ones in 1986. Regulations at the state level vary. To buy one you have to fill out the forms, get the chief LEO in your area to sign off on it, submit your fingerprints and photographs of yourself, pay the $200 tax on the transfer, and wait several months while they check your background.
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noahmijo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-04 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
5. This is an interesting issue to me
Edited on Thu Sep-09-04 11:54 PM by noahmijo
I grew up around firearms, I actually have an AK-47, two of them in fact, and an AR-15 sitting locked in a safe that not even the greatest thief in the world could penetrate.

My personal philosophy is I hope I never ever have to use a firearm to defend myself ever. I probably never would've bought these weapons because I honestly have no need for them, but my father acquired them before they were banned (he is a retired Customs Special Agent) and I learned to use them, and well they are fun to take down to the range and shoot I must say.

Would I reach for one of these if someone were to break into my house? of course not for many reasons, starting with the fact that an unarmed robber deserves only a beating not death, and secondly I live in an area where crime is as scarce as snow (I live in Tucson) so I don't feel the need to have a gun nearby at all times.

My whole issue with the assault weapons ban is that I think the problem is we aren't regulating our current gun laws enough. I agree that background checks should be mandatory even if you're just buying a little 22 I believe in closing gun show loopholes, but if you're going to pass a law banning assault rifles the next step is figuring out how to enforce it, which is near impossible considering the fact that any type of criminals who would feel the need to use those types of weapons won't care about any law on paper. They will get their hands on one anyway. Also consider the fact that gun companies got past the ban simply by altering the cosmetics on their existing models.

Your husband sounds like me in a way, I have these weapons not because I have to compensate for a small you know what, but like I said they are fun to shoot, they are collector's items, and I can assure you that I am not a violent criminal, and the only time they will ever be found being fired by my hands will be at an outdoor shooting range FAR from civilization, I would NEVER use these weapons for protection purposes as for one thing they aren't efficient for that unless I'm in the middle of some sort of urban war.

Bottom line instead of futzing over why we need strong assault weapons laws, I say we focus on cracking down on proper registration and permit regulations and criminals themselves. The COPS program was an EXCELLENT program that Kerry and Clinton pushed and was in my opinion the reason why the crime rate dropped by alot, but under the Bush administration this program was cut drastically yet no shouts of protest, nothing, and quite frankly that bothers me.
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. Thanks. All the guns in our house are locked in a safe too
probably very much like yours. If someone broke into our home, it would be impossible for either of us to even get a gun for "defense". Hubby hasn't even gone shooting at the range more than twice in the last 2 years. He just likes his collection.

People really need to understand that not everyone buys a gun "for protection" or to "commit a crime".

Seems to me, there's paranoia on both sides of this issue.
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noahmijo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #10
21. You're right there is
Edited on Fri Sep-10-04 12:20 AM by noahmijo
I used to be an NRA member but I let my membership lapse because they've become nothing but a front group for the Repubs now. I was 18 when I joined I'm 22 now.

I'll look forward to the day when the group goes back to being one that talks about gun laws, safety, tips ect, and only when that happens will I rejoin.

Back to what you said though. I think there are those on both sides who freak out just a little bit too much. On the right the big talking point is "John Kurra wants to take yer guns away" which as an informed gun owner I know is absolute bullshit, and quite frankly gun control isn't my top issue right now. On the left people think that if you own so much as a couple of rifles and a handgun you must be some sort of bloodthirsty monster who is dying to kill someone which couldn't be further from the truth for alot of us responsible owners.

Some of us just like to collect, my father and I collect vintage WW II era rifles for example that I hardly if ever shoot, but we like to have them, they're antiques ya know?

What weapons we do have that could be considered for defense such as my Glock 40 mm, I take the philosophy that is taught in all Martial Arts training which is basically what you learn or what weapon you wield is NEVER to be used for offense ONLY defense.

I don't look to shoot anybody I hope to God I never am in a situation where I will have to shoot anybody, (that situation would be that someone is pulling a deadly weapon on me such as a knife or a gun) and in reality where I live now and where I plan to live later on in life I don't even think I'll bother getting a concealed weapons permit due to lack of need of that sort of protection.

But that doesn't mean I'm gonna sell off all my guns because I still enjoy shooting them at the range and I still feel that it's important to be educated and to educate others in the safe operation and even training with them because guns aren't going away pure and simple. I say this to everyone even if you hate guns even if you abhor them, it's good to know about them and be educated on the truth about them as well as the gun laws in your state.
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mr_binklesworth Donating Member (71 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 12:00 AM
Response to Original message
7. 2 thoughts on yer hubby's perspective...
1.) and this, of course, is completely personal taste - I don't understand how anyone would want such a destructive instrument of death in their "collection".

2.) Yes, some will be able to get assault weapons if they really want them, but why the hell should we make it easier for them? I do not buy the argument some use, that is: If the criminals have assault weapons, we'd better get some, too, to defend ourselves. Yes, the lead content of the air should be raised!

And there are some serious freaks out there, like Allen Keys who feel that it should be legal to tote them around on the streets.

I'm sure politicians will come around again to re-instate the ban, I just wonder how many will die before they come to that conclusion again.

Cheers,
Mike
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #7
18. You are misunderstanding the reason why lots of people buy guns.
Sure, there are lots of reasons. Some buy them for protection (which is a mistake most of the time), some to feel macho, some just becaue they want a particular one in their collection, and a host of other reasons that may or may not make any sense.

I honestly doubt ANYONE buys an AK47 for protection. If you actually heard that argument, it was coming from an idiot.

I'm sure more afraid of the maniac road rage driver who thinks I cut him off pulling a gun out from under his seat and shooting at my car than I am of anyone with an assualt rifle.

People are very paranoid about a relatively small threat.
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cosmicvortex20 Donating Member (253 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
15. Looks to me like box cutters have killed more people...
recently then guns. This gun paranoia makes sense coming from some people, but for men that have the responsibility to protect their wife and children, should at least have something capable of stopping a couple men cold where they stand.
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rooboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 05:13 AM
Response to Reply #15
39. I would find it hard to believe...
that boxcutters have killed more people than guns in the last 3 years.
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HarveyBriggs Donating Member (324 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
16. Why your husband is wrong
I understand that you love him very much, and he's a very good person.

I've known three people who have had their gun collections stolen.

They swore it would never happnen. They swore they were careful. They swore blah, blah, blah.

Two of the three sets of people had their gun collections stolen at gunpoint. One set of folks believed that during the robbery that they would not survive.

Here's the kicker: The three robberies put 3,000 guns into the hands of criminals.

Honestly, 3,000 guns. I don't know why it is rational for anybody to own that many. But as you have explained, the collectors think it's "neat."

I cannot believe these firearms ended up in the hands of good people.

So, what kind of punishment do we dole out to these victims of these crimes that will make right the horror these 3,000 illegally obtained weapons will inflict on innocent people?

And what kind of punishment will correct the murders, robberies and rapes that will b e commited with these stolen guns?

I think there should be limit to the number of cats, dogs and guns folks own; once the number is exceeded we should commit the kooks.

Nobody's ego is worth this much crime.

Harvey Briggs
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #16
23. Well, your example means that each person had 1,000 guns
in thier collection. I sure don't know these people, nor have I ever heard of such a theft, but these people had to be really stupid! With a cokkection like that, the value would be in excess of $200,000 on the conservative side! To store that quantity in a place accessable to theft is just irresponsible.

You are using an exceptionaly rare situation to prove your point. That is simply not rational.

There are gun thefts all the time, but they usually occur because of careless owners who keep one in a glove compartment or under the seat of their car, or in some other very conspicous place.

I must say, I question 3,000 guns being stollen without any news coverage.
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Berserker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. Guns
Can you imagine a world without them? Would that not be wonderful? No Columbine no children killing each other with guns no gangs killing each other with guns no wars. Oh but wait we need them for protection I hear this shit every time. How many in here have ever shot and killed and intruder? Some parts of our Constitution fucked up this country. We as citizens of this country kill more people with guns than any other country in the world. Oh but wait if we make AK47s illegal they will take ALL our guns away More Bullshit. Lets not stop at AK47s lets make land mines legal that would make deer hunting even more fun. Fuck no lets not stop there lets make rocket launchers legal you could take out a whole fucking herd with one of those baby's. Oh and imagine if you could collect nuclear weapons man you would be the envy of all the collectors you know. And just think then no one would dare fuck with you! NRA SUCKS
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NickB79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 03:01 AM
Response to Reply #26
30. When you figure out how to do that, let our great-great-grandchildren know
There are 200 MILLION+ guns in the US. My uncle just last year found a rifle from the Civil War stored in the attic of a friend of his who had passed away, and it was still functional. You can still buy WWII-era German rifles that have been packaged away for the past 50 yrs in cosmoline preservative that look brand-new. Guns, when well-maintained, last generations. How do you propose we remove all of them from our society within our great-grandchildren's lifetimes?

BTW, you do realize far more people in this country are stabbed, beaten and choked to death each year than are shot and killed, right? Eliminating guns does not address the core issues of the problem of violence in our society.

And speaking personally, there are things I'd like to say to you regarding using firearms in self defense that would probably get me banned if I spoke them here. I HAVE USED A FIREARM IN SELF-DEFENSE, JACKASS!!! If the attacker, MY OWN FATHER, had taken one more step across that room there would have been a bullet through his chest. He was smart enough to stop, back up and get out of the house before anything happened. This is the case with most cases of self-defense: the very presence of the gun causes the attacker to flee. So take your "no one uses guns for self defense" bullshit and shove it, hard.
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HarveyBriggs Donating Member (324 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 04:07 AM
Response to Reply #23
32. I grew up around gun nuts.
Any gun theft should be questioned. Putting hot weapons into criminal circulation is dangerous. Some people steal their own guns.

The fellow with the largest collection owned well over 2,500 guns. Where most people have art hanging on their walls, he had collections of guns -- some frames contained over 100 in a single case. He had guns in his attic. Guns stacked in his spare bedroom. Guns in the rafters of his garage. His garage was a gun shop.

I knew this man as a young child.

My father wasn't around much, so I hung out with this man. It was backwater south.

He taught me to shoot. Before I was 8 I could shoot patterns at long distances you could cover with a #2 pencil eraser. I retrieved lead from his back yard trap, cast my own bullets and learned to pack my own loads.

The man may have been a professional shooter, for all I know. There were times when we would shoot special factory ammunition and special guns and he would take a lot of notes.

I was allowed to shoot so much because I was precocious with firearms and adults found my skill entertaining. As a young boy I enjoyed the attention my skill brought me. I was also incredibly disciplined regarding gun safety, ettiquette and responsibility. Once my young association with firearms began I was not allowed to have or play with toy guns. To this day I'm bothered seeing toy guns and children pointing them at each other.

I'm an expert marksman. Most likely a much better shot than you. Most often better than the sniper down on the local SWAT team.

Shooting now bores me, and I find most shooters to be pretty offensive people. You are right when you mention carelessness and stupidity. My experience tells me its an affliction with that crowd. Their arrogance is oppressive. And its usually their arrogance that leads to stupid behavior, which in turn leads to these thefts, as well as deaths. Most gun owners I see are complete idiots.

There are some exceptions to this rule, but mostly those exceptional people share my view that most folks should not own guns: most people are too stupid, careless and arrogant, and that is a deadly combination.

The people I see railing against gun registration and regulation do so because they don't want to act responsible with a firearm -- they think the second ammendment allows them to be a complete moron while in the possession of deadly force.

Of the thefts.

I don't recall there was much news about the large theft. I recall my father talking about it. The man who lost the guns may have been embarassed. I was very young then, and that did not seem important. I don't recall it was in the papers. It seemed hush-hush. It was back in the 60s before Kennedy was shot. Very odd.

Another man owned close to 400 firearms. I believe he bought out museums, gunstores and the like and resold what he didn't want to keep. I've been in the man's home, and his collecting has brought him many beautiful things. He had a lot of very heavy-duty locks protecting his home, but he was robbed by criminals who planned the crime well and robbed him at gunpoint. It was suspected they were aware of the large purchase he made and studied him.

My clearest memory of a theft was from an acquaintance who owned well over 60 firearms. Many were quite valuable. He seemed to trade in the things. He and his wife were the victims of an intense and tortuous home invasion. There was some suspiscion he robbed himself for insurance purposes, but that theory was dismissed because of the severity of the beatings. That seemed to make the news more than the gun theft.

As you can tell, I have more of a problem with gun owners and gun ownership than I have with guns.

That leads me to believe there should be an outright ban on handguns for all people outside of law enforcement and the military. Most people don't shoot enough to be effective with them, and short of efficacy they are more a danger to themselves and their neighbors. Short of a ban, I would require initial testing, logging of hours at a gun range and frequent and regular re-testing.

Mind you, the Silver medalist in marksmanship in this year's Olympics only had to hit his own target to win gold. But he hit another target and lost. In a home invasion, with untrained handgun owners, that kind of miss can travel through a wall, into a neighbor's home and kill an innocent person. It happens. And if it happens at all it is too often.

Mind you, the second amendment requires a well-regulated milita. Gun knowledge and proficiency is a necessary and prudent part of that regulation.

For most people, a Remington 870 shotgun is an excellent home defense weapon. It requires little skill to be effective, indeed the mere sound of its slide operation is enough to intimidate most individuals invading a home.

For hunters the addition of a high-powered rifle for deer and a smaller rifle for small game is fine. After that I view the owning of multiple firearms the same way I view the owning multiples of cats or dogs-- own more than three or four and there is something very wrong with you.

I've absolutely had it with self-styled Rambos with their assault-styled guns, lousy gun ettiquette, poor gun safety behavior, crappy shooting skills and just plain bad attitudes ruin hunting trips and afternoons at the gun range. I've had to kiss the ground way too many times because of these guys.

I'm absolutely furious to see Bill Clinton Thug sillouette targets in the NRA Freedom aisle of the local sporting goods store.

Ever since the NRA decided they wanted to be the National Saturday Night Special Lobby Association, or the National Assault Rifle association, the rifle range, skeet range and the woods have gone to absolute hell. And I know a lot of good gun owners who feel the same way about this.

Anybody who says any different is a goddamned liar. And for them I pray for the day Hillary Clinton and the National Guard helps these kooks make good on their "cold dead fingers" promise. Once those kooks are cleared out, we might be able to go back to the days of responsible gun ownership.

With the pro-gun, anything goes crowd it seems like it's always the "other guy" who is wrong. I think we need to put very strict controls on who that "other guy" is.

We straight on this, Skippy?

Harvey Briggs


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T Town Jake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 04:27 AM
Response to Reply #32
35. After reading this rambling rant...
...please disregard my previous request; it's obvious that no "link" or proof of any kind regarding this fantastic gun crime (three robberies of three "sets" of individuals put 3,000 guns on the streets!...snicker...) will be forthcoming.
It's all a vague tissue of memory, from the mists of the past, back in the sixties - and before Kennedy was shot, even! Connect the dots! ...<snicker>...As you yourself pointed out, it is all so "very odd," indeed, "Skippy"...
:eyes:
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ElectroPrincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 05:03 AM
Response to Reply #32
37. I know what you mean Harvey Briggs
My father (Retired USA, WWII Combat Engineer) had collected over a dozen rifles, shotguns and handguns. My older brother and I were asked to take possession of them when Dad had to be admitted to the State's Veterans home (Alheizmers Dx). I only wanted one of the shotguns and the cheap (black plastic) 22 rifle that Dad initially taught me to fire.

I fully concur - handguns should be used by cops, active duty military, national guard and reserves ... NOT civilians. Yes, shotguns are IMO best for home protection because if you aim it in the general direction of the intruder, one basically cannot miss.

Further, the following may seem too gruesome to some, but IMO it should be addressed: Suicide is much harder to complete with a rifle or shotgun. Of course, such an act is not impossible to the severely depressed. However, the extra time it takes to aim and fire a shotgun or rifle through one's skull, often times, creates a moment for reflection that precludes the taking of one's own life.

With the number of chronically depressed Americans, we must also consider the potential increase in the number of murder-suicides in the near future. Again, it's much easier to "unthinkingly" kill with a handgun as compared to a shotgun or rifle.
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T Town Jake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 04:08 AM
Response to Reply #16
33. Three robberies from private individuals...
...put 3,000 guns into the hands of criminals? I don't buy it. Got a link to any published reports of this series of fantastic crimes?
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JSJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 04:21 AM
Response to Original message
34. kick for penile substitutes everywhere
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ElectroPrincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 04:36 AM
Response to Original message
36. Me too ...
Edited on Fri Sep-10-04 04:37 AM by ElectroPrincess
Ever since I enrolled in ROTC as a young Cadet, I TOO have always wanted to have a Cal 50 machine gun mounted on top of my roof. Love the look of those "banana clip" magazines too. HoooWaahhh! Why? But of course, "Because it looks so f*ckin' neat." (Androgen - female testosterone oozing freely.) Hummm? ... but ya know the ADULT side of me don't think it's gonna happen anytime soon. :P

The absence of flash suppressors will not spook "the wildlife" while hunting. If you need more than 10 rounds to take down a bear, elk or deer, you're a FREAK of nature and a danger to society,i.e., turn in all your firearms ASAP. Finally, semi-auto Hardly seems to make "hunting game" or a laudable sport. However, it sure comes in handy for those short bursts of suppressive deadly fire when extracting one's com-padres from a bank robbery or other illicit activity. / sarcasm off.

For those who MUST get their jollies firing semi-auto, there could be allowances for such weapons to be maintained at the individual's firing range ... but only for civilian hobby or legit target shooting.

Edited once for grammar.
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FeebMaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #36
42. So buy one
.50 caliber machine guns are legal now and unaffected by the AWB. I recently saw a classified ad selling 4 sequentially serial numbered .50s for sale. I could probably find it if you're interested, although my guess is they sold fairly quickly and are now long gone.

The assault weapons ban had nothing to do with machine guns, after all, only semi-automatic weapons with certain features like bayonet lugs, flash suppressors, and folding stocks.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 05:08 AM
Response to Original message
38. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #38
43. Deleted message
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Varmintpoontang Donating Member (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 05:25 AM
Response to Original message
40. LOL
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Varmintpoontang Donating Member (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 05:27 AM
Response to Original message
41. They bever lose their value
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