Thoughtful opinions desperately needed!

[katym]

DU has always been helpful when writing one or more speeches on the Bush Administration.
Unfortunately, this speech has nothing to do with the Bush Administration, but I figure that the opinions of DU can help out anyway.
The speech I'm currently writing is on the process of fear eradication---that is, some scientists have been using virtual reality to rid people of their fear (and it works, too!).
But I need the implications of this: IE, the implications of a world without fear. Now, I can see that there would be no fear of punishment by law, and ultimately, no fear of God...but I cant seem to write more than a paragraph on it, and was hoping some of you had opinions or thoughts of your own :-D
Please feel free to elaborate on any of this.

[soupkitchen]

1. Imagine, John Lennon

Actually, you're confusing phobia with fear. Fear is a basic instinct serving the purpose of alerting the organism to danger. Phobia is a form of paronia, more a product of worry than fear.

[katym]

2. yes but

in this speech (and in the report Im basing the speech off of) they are using fear and phobia as one interchangeable phrase.

[soupkitchen]

6. Well, my point was that you could elaborate on the distinctions between

fear and phobia in your speech. But I guess the question becomes what is the purpose of the speech? If you are debating and need to defend a position that you don't necessarily believe in than the argument for fear is that for humans, like all animals, fear is one of the basic instintcts. And if the cost of getting rid of phobias is losing our instict to fear, we lose the capacity to experience life on a primal level; we lose an aspect of what makes us alive.

[katym]

10. good points! but the purpose

is just to inform about the actual proccess of "fear eradication". However, on this level, an informative speech must include the implications of what you are informing people about. Implications on fear eradication, etc.

[noiretextatique]

14. fear is not just a basic instinct

it is also a learned response, and often, it is irrational.
phobias are irrational fears...on crack, but they can develop because of something a person experienced. for example, i don't swim in the ocean because i was caught in an undertow when i was ten...i am now 45. i had one bad experience swimming in the ocean 35 years ago, yet i still associate swimming in the ocean with being caught in an undertow.
interestingly enough, my dominant memory of that experience was the fear i felt, not the calm that came over me when i realized (perhaps instintively) that i would survive if i didn't panic and stuggle. and sure enough, after i stopped struggling, i popped up on the surface and got the hell out of the water.
at some point, i know i will have to face this fear and learn how to swim.

[katym]

15. EXACTLY!!!

half of my speech is on the fact that fears/phobias are conditioned responses. Like Pavlovs dogs, phobias are something you learn, you create a "fear memory". Fear eradication covers up that memory, and therefore, covers the phobia itself.
Though seeing as it is only covering things up, that makes the "eradication" part rather wrong...

[noiretextatique]

22. are you familiar with marsha sinetar's book

"Living Happily Ever After?"
the gist of the book is this: we don't have to accept the same old story we've been telling ourselves about our pasts...we can examine our experiences and learn to see them in different ways.
i can continue to see my undertow experience as a terrifying, near-death expeience, or...i can see that i used my wits and instincts to get out of that situation (probably some luck in there as well).
as you mention, the "fear memory" can be viewed as looking at the traumatizing event in the same way...over and over again.
one way to change the fear is to examine the fear memory to find a way to change the story of the event.

[soupkitchen]

20. Aren't you really saying that phobias are a learned behavior?

Which I think is the rationale behind phobia therapy. That which is learned can be unlearned.
But K's original post spoke of the ramificatins of a world without fear. If the question is simply the ramifications of a world without phobias then we're back to John Lennon. "Imagine all the people, living for today." Meaning, imagine people living and fucntioning without irrational worries. And in such a world you could even imagine yourself swimming.

[noiretextatique]

23. yes, i am...as are most fears

however...it took me 20 years to realize that regarding my undertow experience, in part because i wasn't really conscious. yeah...perhaps it's as simple (and as difficult) as consciousness raising for fears.
and therapy for phobias.

[katym]

25. Yes

A phobia is a "conditioned response to a stimulus" or, in terms that dont require me to drag out a dictionary (:-D) a learned behavior. I really like the quote...it rather sums up the flip side of a world without fear.
THANK YOU!

[proud patriot]

3. I think a world w/o fear would have both good and bad aspects

like pain tells you to pull your hand away from
a hot stove so does fear trigger certain positive
survival skills .

I think fear can be both healthy and unhealthy
depending upon the degree .

[Shoeempress]

4. But there is a difference between irrational fear and rational fear.

It is rational to "fear" punishment, which is a direct result of one's desire not to be incarcerated and can be avoided by choosing not to engage in behavior which will not put you in a position of being arrested and an irrational fear of say random violence, which one may or may not be the subject of and thus to avoid this violence, I will never leave my house. Further, fear can limit one's ability to think rationally. I.e. I will never go to Paris because I am afraid to fly, yet flying is safer than driving and I drive to work every day. Thus, should fear be a motivator or a delimiting factor in one's life. I.e. I am afraid I will die and never see Big Ben. Thus, I will work hard to save $ and fly to London. It can cut both ways, dependng on the reaction to the "fear".

[katym]

11. good deal

this speech deals mostly with irrational, but I'm glad you brought up that point.
This fear eradication does not take away the instinctual fear but fears that are created within oneself, such as being afraid of flying (or in some cases, being afraid of the airplane itself).

[bryant69]

5. Put a lot of people out of work

The question is what does away with fear. I mean is it like we all get mild lombotomies that make us forget how to be afriad? Or is it that all the problems that cause us to feel fear go away?

If it's the former, well, we would still need firemen, but we might not need as many cops.

Plus, boy am i not sure I like the idea of some scientist deciding to remove an emotion from my brain.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[katym]

12. lol not to worry

It isnt an invasive procedure -- people with "specific phobias" ie. fear of heights, can use virtual reality and drugs to help eliminate their fear.
Interesting though---a part of my speech does make a point for whether or not fear is actually an emotion.

[One_Life_To_Give]

7. Fear or Reason

A world without "Reason to" fear or without fear?
The former sounds lovely, the later sounds unworkable.

[katym]

9. without fear, period.

You're right though, the former does sound nice...

[Squeech]

8. Old cliche: the stock market is motivated only by greed and fear

Take away fear, that leaves only greed. That doesn't sound good to me.

Fear is also an important concept in religion-- to a fundie, the word "Godfearing" is high praise.

Moreover, I think most people obey the law primarily because they fear the consequences of getting caught if they don't. There was a psychologist who came up with a taxonomy of morality in six stages, and theorized that as we grow up, we progress through these stages, from "I want it because I want it" (infant behavior) to tit-for-tat (childish behavior) to law-abiding to more mature and nuanced ethics-- I forget the details. But my point is, I don't think people *respect* the law, I think they just obey it because not doing so is too risky.

Hope that helps.

[katym]

13. very true

I am using the concept of religion--without the fear of god, some believe all hell would break loose. I agree that the fear of punishment is more for the consequences and teh risky aspect than anything else.
Believe me, I'm desperately grasping for implications.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

16. Substitute love for fear

Assuming your speech is about a bigger picture than just what if no one were afraid of being punished..
If we are no longer afraid don't we do things we never did?
If we are no longer afraid don't we say things we never thought to say?
If we are no longer afraid aren't we free to realize our potential and inate greatness?

[katym]

21. wow, thank you :-D n/t

[Squeech]

18. Ask what ethics would have to look like *without* religion

Once you can no longer say "I do this, and I don't do that, because I'll go to hell if I screw up," is there any motivation to do right?

Certainly the Golden Rule applies, unless that's also a special case of fear. But I don't think it is, I think this is the point where you begin to evolve a truly mature ethical system: I do this because it is how I would like to be treated, *because* I can empathize with you and recognize how shitty it would make you feel *before* I do the bad thing. I don't think that's fear, I think it's wisdom.

[katym]

19. very interesting point of view

thank you!!!!! :D

[soupkitchen]

24. You know God doesn't have to exist for the planets to stay in orbit

If ethical behavior is a necessary behavior for social harmony, and it is, then God does not have to exist for ethical behavior to be essential to human conduct.
These guys who say that God has to exist for ethics to have any purpose are just logically wrong. Ethics exist, well, because if God didn't exist we would have to invent him, sort of.

[katym]

26. very good point

[noiretextatique]

17. a good way to communicate how to overcome fear

is to use your own life as an example. an example from my experience: i used to be terrified about speaking in public.
i started eradicating this fear by practicing speaking to a small, supportive group...my fellow graduate students. as i gained more confidence, i decided to read my poetry in public before an audience of strangers. i was so nervous before i spoke, i almost passed out :7
as i read, i could hear the unsteadiness in my voice, and since i didn't have podium to hide behind, the audience could see my hands shaking :scared: i was a mess! but i knew i would do it again...because someone connected with my work. a woman came up to me after it was all over...just one...and told me she really loved my writing.
it occurred to me that she addressed my real fear: that i didn't have anything to say that anyone would want to hear...that i wasn't a "good" writer. as frightening as that experience was for me...i left it feeling a more confident.
that was over ten years ago. since then i have performed many, many times in various venues. i even host fundraisers and events now...because i am so comfortable, engaging, witty, and charming :silly:
i still get nervous before shows, but it's NOTHING like it used to be.
i tell myself now: "ok...you can be afraid if you must, but we are going to do this in spite of the fear. i acknowledge the fear, and i either let go, or i simply walk through it.
it was a process of several years and many experiences to get where i am today...and it's still an ongoing process.
my next challenge is to become more engaged with my audience: instead of picking a point at the back wall and focusing on it, i want to truly engage with my audience.

if you are so inclined, you may want to check out a science of mind/religious science site....they talk about fear, and how to deal with it a lot. i have learned a lot about how to overcome (or walk through) my fears by studying and praciticing meditation, acutalizations, and so on.
good luck on your speech.