Someone told me that she has a friend who has been in Iraq.

[coloradodem2005]

The friend said that most Iraqis were happy that the Americans were there. And that they were really friendly. What do you think?

[kestrel91316]

1. I have also heard this................

I wonder if they are just nice to their faces, but spitting at them behind their backs. I really don't know the truth.

[My Pet Goat]

2. Tell her....

things are a bit different outside the green zone.

[mmonk]

3. Tell her to tell her friend

to tell them to quit shooting then.

[BrotherBuzz]

4. You don't parse words!

;)

[Columbia]

5. I've been to Iraq

And most Iraqis were friendly to me as well.

[southlandshari]

29. No doubt

they were. I lived in the West Bank and Gaza and locals were nothing but warm and gracious to me, no matter what the general sentiment towards the U.S. government and its policies in the region was at the time. People could be burning U.S. flags in the street and I could walk right by and have ten invitations to afternoon tea at the same time.

Maybe it is hypocrisy, these seemingly contradictory actions. But I was always grateful that people there could separate the decisions and actions of my government from me as an individual. And it instilled a real sense of obligation in me to do whatever I can as an individual can do to impact my government in positive ways.

I'm just saying that friendly treatement by the local population doesn't necessarily mean they are happy with our military and economic and political actions against their country.

[Columbia]

35. Mmm sweet tea

I have to say one thing, Iraqi hospitality kicks Southern hospitality every day of the week.

[southlandshari]

37. Being from the South myself

I think our hospitality is one of the things we can actually feel good about. But I admit, I must agree with you. I have never seen hospitality done like it is done in the Middle East. If you can just adapt to the coffee, all is right with the world!

[DulceDecorum]

6. If the Iraqis are happy now,

just think how OVERJOYED they will be when the Americans leave.
Flowers and candy everyone, flowers and candy.
http://www.iraq.net/displayarticle2753.html

[PittLib]

7. Think about it ...

You've got (at least)three different groups: The Shiite majority who were abused and oppressed under Hussein, the Kurds, who were murdered by Hussein, and the Sunni who received preferential treatment from Hussein. I guess the outcome depends on who you ask and who's asking the question, no?

[DulceDecorum]

8. "Kill them, let god sort them out"

is the motto of the average gunsman, or so I thought.
Are the US soldiers manning the roadblocks
really able to tell the three seperate groups apart?

[PittLib]

9. Point taken ... just not my point

All I'm saying is that you cannot make a generalization about whether the Iraqis want us there, or not. Inevitably some will love us, some will hate us. My question is - which way do the scales tip? and how will we all (Iraq/US) feel about it in 5 years? Our track record is not a good indicator...

[manic expression]

10. Generalization?

You just generalized the entire Iraqi population into 3 groups.
It's very hard to reach a good picture of how life was before and after in Iraq for the average person. Look at what is happening, though. 60% unemployment rate; 60,000(+) Iraqi military deaths; 12,000 Iraqi civilian deaths; 3,000 schools looted and destroyed (the occupying U.S. forces have only "repaired" half); priceless museums looted; dire power situation; desperate water, refrigeration facility situation; 2 cities completely ravaged; lawlessness and chaos; cancer is up 300% in Baghdad due to U.S. use of Depleted Uranium. That is the reality.
By the way, you forgot about the Turkmans. They are a rather large ethnic group in the north.

[Ms. Clio]

13. In fact, there have been 10,000 deaths just in Baghdad alone

From all causes, including the skyrocketing murder rate. A recent estimate of 37,000 killed in the entire country is much more plausible. Not to mention all the people horribly maimed and mangled who managed to survive with only the most primitive health care.

[PittLib]

14. I'm beginning to see what the problem is with dems...

the intellectual "I know more than you" crap that will keep us arguing minutiae instead of addressing the big picture. I mean , are you arguing my point or what? Please forgive my lack of exact figures ( and I do believe I put the "at least" in there). There is no cut and dry answer as to whether Iraqis welcome our presence or not. Or am I totally wrong?

[Ms. Clio]

17. Yeah, you're totally wrong

But we could parachute you into the middle of Fallujah after another bombing raid and find out for sure, I'll bet.

[PittLib]

40. Silly me. I stand corrected as you are...

absolutely and unequivocally right. All Iraqis hate us. My head must have slipped into my ass again when I suggested otherwise.:)

[Ms. Clio]

52. It seems to be a chronic condition

Good luck with it, though.

[skooooo]

26. So? Why is this important?

People need to fight for their own freedom, not let others do it for them. Being over there is harming OUR country.

[PittLib]

41. I agree with you -

This is was my initial feeling about the war. I hate how the gov spins their own greed and control issues into some sort of humanitarian drivel. A pretty package with a crappy gift inside.

[Cheswick2.0]

32. There was a poll taken

92 percent want us out. I think that is pretty clear.

[paulk]

38. actually, the poll you're talking about

states that 92% consider the Americans occupiers - it doesn't say that 92% want us "out". In the interest of minutiae...

[Media_Lies_Daily]

44. Sounds like a load of semantics to me.

[paulk]

45. No, not semantics...

Truth. It is not true to say, according to the poll taken in July by the CPA, that 92% of Iraqis want the US out of their country. That's not what the poll says. The poll says that 92% of Iraqis consider the US as occupiers. That's a completely different statement. You can make a clever riposte about "semantics", but you would still be wrong.

Now, there is another poll, taken in April by Gallup, which says that 93% of Iraqis want us out. This poll has been cited many times here at DU, and may in fact be the poll Cheswick was referring to. But this poll also has some problems - the actual poll numbers were - 57% want the coalition out immediately and 36% want the coalition out eventually - presumably after the January elections. I'm surprised it wasn't 100%!


The point is - it's simply not accurate to say that 90% of Iraqis want the coalition out of Iraq "now". This statement is not supportable.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

50. If you want to get really technical,...

...whe it's stated that 92% of Iraqis want us out of their country, that only applies to the Iraqis who were actually polled, not to the ENTIRE population. Under the current circumstances, I would have to guess that it would be VERY difficult to poll the entire population of Iraq.

However, given that we seem to be meeting with a resistance that is costing us American lives at a rising rate, it might be VERY safe to say that at least a majority of Iraqis want us out.

As to your second paragraph, it does state that 93% of the Iraqis polled want us out of the country...some sooner than others.

[Ms. Clio]

12. Well, why don't you ask the Shiites in Najaf how they feel about the U.S.

You know, those are the "abused and oppressed" ones who only recently stopped shooting at the people who "liberated" them--and I don't expect that state of affairs to persist much longer.

[paulk]

36. You mean the Mehdi Army?

Most of whom aren't from Najaf?

[Ms. Clio]

51. No, I mean the people in Najaf

The ones who have been dying in droves as their city turned into a battleground.

[Strelnikov_]

47. I’m With You PittLib

The broad statement "most Iraqi’s" reminds me of a Fox poll that only sampled GOPers. If this individual was in the Kurdish area, well hell yes most Iraqis (there) like us. If I were a Kurd, I would want an indefinite U.S. presence.

I also agree with your later post about these interminable arguments about how many fairies will fit on the head of a pin. While the liberals are arguing over the details of the ‘perfect’ platform, or the most ideologically correct candidate, the GOP is keeping it simple (greed, greed and more greed) and stealing the country. Kinda reminds me of ‘Life of Brian’ where all the resistance groups are arguing among themselves while Romans go on their way pillaging the country.

[PittLib]

49. just when I was feeling so misunderstood...

You come along and validate me. Sincere thanks for that and LoB reference and subsequent laugh.:)

[krkaufman]

54. * * * Splitter!!! * * *

People's Front of Judea? Judean People's Front?

[Ms. Clio]

11. Someone told me that he has a friend who knows George Bush

The friend said that George was a prince of a fellow and that his family was really friendly. What do you think?

[Blind Tiresias]

15. sorta true

Im sure its the whole spectrum, it seems very similar to most of these types of wars. There are people (Saddam's quiet opponents) who are very happy that Saddam Hussein is gone. There are people who dont miss the former regime, and are not to sweet for us. There are people who hate our guts but are not willing to face our firepower. There are people who will not take up arms, but actively work behind the scenes for the enemy. Finally, i think most people there are sick of war and troubles and just want to stay out of it and hope for better days...

On the whole, I think the people of Iraq are ready to move on with their future (no Saddam), and that means we must leave.

[Satchel]

16. I agree that it would depend on who you ask

but I think we need to get our troops home as soon as possible.

[daleo]

18. I heard the streets were made of gold

And lions and lambs happily cavorted together on beautiful green lawns. And there is always a rainbow in the sky.

[coloradodem2005]

19. I also heard that there's a lady who's sure all that glitters is gold.

And she's buying a stairway to heaven. :P

[leesa]

20. Iraqis are very friendly people. If your friend is non-military, why

would they be bad to her. These people are very warm and kind, like the Iranians. It is WE who are barbaric.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

21. "Someone told me she has a friend who has been in the U.S.

The friend said that most Americans were happy that George Bush was in the White House. And they were really friendly. What do you think?" :-)

It all depends on where you go, whom you associate with, and under what conditions you ask the question.

For example, if a gun-toting soldier from a ham-fisted occupying power asked me if I was happy about the occupation, I'd tend to say "yes," but what I did behind his back might be another matter.

Or if I were one of the people who benefited from the occupation, I might be happy that there was an occupation to benefit from and of course, I would be friendly and hospitable to the people who could benefit me.

[leesa]

22. Exactly. This guys friend needs to open her eyes.

Sounds to me like she is just spewing the usual justification crap. Why would they want us there when we keep blowing them up??

[shrike]

33. I'd say whoever told her this is full of shit

But I can't give more details ... not trying to be cute, but there might be repercussions for the people who told me a few things. (again, I'm not trying to sound dramatic.) But they are NOT happy to have us there.

[Cha]

48. I didn't think they were.

Course I just saw "Control Room" last night..the Al Jazeera doc on the early Invasion into Iraq.

[Killarney]

23. I think most people see good and bad

I read an interesting interview with six Iraqi women on the BBC website and each one said good and bad things. All agree that it's good Saddam is gone. They feel they can speak their mind now. Many of them reported that their husbands are making more money now. But on the bad side they all reported that they don't feel safe and that they cannot walk freely like they used to.

[manic expression]

24. The funny thing is...

that Iraqis have not been given the right to speak their minds. Just ask the many nonviolent protesters that were heinously gunned down by occupying troops. Ask the man who had his mouth duct-taped, his hands bound and was thrown into the back of a Humvee for (according to the soldiers) "speaking out against the coalition" if he was successful in speaking his mind. Ask al Sadr's supporters if they enjoyed having their newspaper shut down by U.S. forces because it expressed anti-American sentiments. Ask the numerous journalists who were arrested or abused or simply herded away from scenes that might've made U.S. soldiers look bad. Just ask those illegally imprisoned in Abu Graib if they are treated well by U.S. soldiers. Iraqis are able to speak their mind...except if it is against the U.S. and occupying forces in any way. That is NOT freedom of speech.

[southlandshari]

31. And ask those at Al-Jazeera

about freedom of speech in Iraq. Their offices have already been closed several times by the new "government" there, and they are under constant attack (physically and politically) when they are permitted to try to report on daily events in Iraq.

[markomalley]

25. I think your friend has either been lied to

or is propagating propaganda. One way or the other. They hate us. As they should for the damage we have done to their land. The war criminals need to be punished. Abu Graib style or Gitmo style.

[southlandshari]

27. who, what, when and where

I'm guessing this friend of a friend wasn't wearing a military uniform when she was out and about discussing views on Americans with Iraqis. So what was she doing there? When? Where? Alone or with a group? How much of the population was she exposed to? These all have a heck of a lot to do with who she might have met - and what they were willing to say to her. Was she with an aid organization? Or traveling on business or "diplomatic" people? Does she speak Arabic or rely on a translater?

I found when I lived in the Middle East I got a lot more honesty from those who weren't pandering to benefit personally from any involvement the U.S. might have in their country. In other words, if you only talk to locals who work at the U.S. embassy, or in other jobs that keep in them in constant contact with westerners, I don't think you are going to hear the voice of the majority.

[markomalley]

28. Exactly!

...Iraq has a puppet government in power that is most likely terrorizing their citizens. How can anybody expect to get an honest answer from that country?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

39. Interpreters

Yes, unless you have an absolutely trustworthy and ethical interpreter (interpreters are supposed to relay exactly what each person says without concealing anything or injecting any personal opinions), you don't know whether you're getting the whole story. I have seen cases in Japan where the interpreter left out things that might offend the English speaker.

I therefore would not trust the account of anyone who didn't speak Arabic. For one thing, even the best interpreter is not going to be able to interpret everything that people around you might say.

[htuttle]

30. Success of a resistance movement is prima facie evidence...

...that they hate us being there and want us to go.

Resistance movements simply don't work if the population doesn't support it. Since the Iraqi resistance has been successful (and still growing), the population must not want us there.

OTOH, there is a coordinated, fairly desparate sounding, psyops effort being conducted on the American people to convince us that the Iraqi people want the Americans there, and are happy we blew their country to shit.

Which do you think this story comes from?

[Ms. Clio]

53. There really does seem to be a determined, coordinated happy Iraqi agenda

especially in the past couple of days--I'm glad it's not just me who thinks so.

[shrike]

34. I'd say whoever told her this is full of shit

Can't give more details because I don't want to get anyone in trouble. (I'm not trying to be mysterious or cute, either.)

[BlackVelvetElvis]

42. A student of mine has 2 weeks off from the war.

He came by to visit and has to go back shortly.
He said, "Boy, they really want us out of there."

[Media_Lies_Daily]

43. I'd say there's a bad smell in the air.

[Texasgal]

46. That's bullshit!

I have a Kurdish friend who is now working with the interior government in the "green zone" He said that it makes their jobs so much harder because there are so many Iraq's out there who don't trust the Americans and are bitter because they are there. That's NOT counting the insurgents who are killing innocents and soilders.

I know I would probably feel angry if some foreigners came in my country, bombed the hell out of it, killed women and children and then offered their hand in the name of "democracy" .