9/11 -- Get over it!

[markomalley]

How to get over 9/11? Get the fascists out! Out of office -- out of the country!

Then, and only then, can we give thanks to our fallen dead...the first deaths in the second American revolution!

If we don't succeed, then their losses will not only be in vain, they will be accompanied by many, many others as we become even more of a target!

(edited to add the last statement)

[dammit905]

1. umm.... I dunno, this is a little hokey.

Sure the Bushes exploit 9/11 for political purposes, but it doesn't mean we have to. Can't it just be nonpolitical and sad?

[markomalley]

2. It was originally a political act! How can it become non-political? nt

[dammit905]

3. I only mean that a lotta people suffered a lot...

and not all of them want to be remembered in that fashion, I'm sure. And the terrorists weren't really protesting Bush, in fairness.. sure, Bush was worse than the other presidents, but it was a long line of bullshit we've given people with foreign policy. But at any rate, the people in the WTC weren't at fault for that, and it just seems like maybe we can just respectfully remember them a-politically, since all sorts of people died. I dunno, maybe I'm wrong.

[markomalley]

7. Agreed...and I am not making light of their losses...

...but something good has got to come out of it or their deaths are in vain. That's my sole point.

Maybe I should work on my tact!

[leesa]

28. The terrorists WERE Bush. Wake up already

You have plenty enough information to grow up and understand this. Why don't you?

[illiteratepresident]

39. HERE IS THE DEAL PEOPLE

It was on September 11, 1973 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3646660.stm that the elected leader of Chile, Salvador Allende, was killed in a military coup. Political killings, torture and disappearings ensued as Allende worked to put down public dissent.

That good Republican foreign policy was kicking well then: Newly declassified documents show our then Secretary of State Henry Kissinger all but blessing the killing and torure practices of this regime:
"IF THERE ARE THINGS THAT HAVE TO BE DONE, YOU SHOULD DO THEM QUICKLY" http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB133 /
Of course the problem was that darned Terrorism thingy...maybe the killing and torture was all justified...that's the way we think now. 3 years later. It's wrong thinking.

'TERRORISM' is the best catch all word invented in the last hundred years, especially if you are selling arms or running dope on the side..."Our main problem in Argentina is terrorism. It is the first priority of the current government that took office on March 24. There are two aspects to the solution. The first is to ensure the internal security of the country; the second is to solve the most urgent economic problems over the coming 6 to 12 months. Argentina needs United States understanding and support…." At a time when the international community, the U.S. media, universities, and scientific institutions, the U.S. Congress, and even the U.S. Embassy in Argentina were clamoring about the indiscriminate human rights violations against scientists, labor leaders, students, and politicians by the Argentine military, Secretary Kissinger told Guzzetti: "We are aware you are in a difficult period. It is a curious time, when political, criminal, and terrorist activities tend to merge without any clear separation. We understand you must establish authority."

Prescient.

As you may recall, that scion of moral turpitude was of course GW's first pic for the chair of the 9/11 commission (after finally relenting to allow its creation at all.). Second stringer and retired New Jersey Governor Tom Kean instead filled the slot when it became clear his consultancy was more important to Kissinger than covering his buddy GW's ass.. On this anniversary, let's not fail to take a look at Mr. Kean for just a moment:

Fortune Magazine reports ... that both Kean and Bush share an unusually well-placed business partner: one Khalid bin Mahfouz -- perhaps better known as "Osama bin Laden's bagman" or even "Osama bin Laden's brother-in-law."
Kean, like so many worthies, followed the revolving door out of public service into lucrative sweetheart deals and well-wadded sinecures on corporate boards. One of these, of course, is an oil company--pretty much a requirement for White House work these days. (Or as the sign says on the Oval Office door: "If your rigs ain't rockin', don't come a-knockin'!") Kean is a director of Amerada Hess, an oil giant married up to Saudi Arabia's Delta Oil in a venture to pump black gold in Azerbaijan. (The partnership is incorporated in a secretive offshore "tax haven," natch. You can't expect a worthy like Kean to pay taxes like some grubby wage slave.)
One of Delta's biggest backers is the aforesaid Mahfouz, a Saudi wheeler-dealer who has bankrolled some of most dubious players on the world scene: Abu Nidal, Manuel Noreiga, Saddam Hussein and George W. Bush. Mahfouz was also a front for the bin Laden family, funneling their vast wealth through American cut-outs in a bid to gain power and influence in the United States.
One of those cut-outs was Mahfouz factotum James Bath http://www.michaelmoore.com/_media/images/documents/sal ... a partner in George W.'s early oil venture, Arbusto http://stewwebb.com/Money%20Laundering%20BCCI%20A%20Mys ... . Bath has admitted serving as a pass-through for secret Saudi money. Years later, when Bush's maladroit business skills were about to sink another of his companies, Harken Energy, the firm was saved by a $25 million investment from a Swiss bank--a subsidiary of the Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BBCI), partly owned by the beneficent Mahfouz.
What was BCCI? Only "one of the largest criminal enterprises in history," according to the U.S. Senate. What did BCCI do? "It engaged in pandemic bribery of officials in Europe, Africa, Asia and the Americas," says journalist Christopher Bryon, who first exposed the operation. "It laundered money on a global scale, intimidated witnesses and law officers, engaged in extortion and blackmail. It supplied the financing for illegal arms trafficking and global terrorism. It financed and facilitated income tax evasion, smuggling and prostitution." http://www.counterpunch.org/floyd01312003.html
Boston Herald , December 10, 2001
Two billionaire Saudi families scrutinized by authorities for possible financial ties to Osama bin Laden's terrorist network continue to engage in major oil deals with leading U.S. corporations.
The bin Mahfouz and Al-Amoudi clans, who control three private Saudi Arabian oil companies, are partners with U. S. firms in a series of ambitious oil development and pipeline projects in central and south Asia, records show.
Working through their companies - Delta Oil, Nimir Petroleum and Corral Petroleum - the Saudi families have formed international consortiums with U. S. oil giants Texaco, Unocal, Amerada Hess and Frontera Resources.
These business relationships persist despite evidence that members of the two Saudi families - headed by patriarchs Khalid bin Mahfouz and Mohammed Hussein Al-Amoudi - have had ties to Islamic charities and companies linked financially to bin Laden's al-Qaeda organization. So far, bin Mahfouz and Al-Amoudi, who have denied any involvement with bin Laden, have been left untouched by the U. S. Treasury Department, which has frozen the assets of 150 individuals, companies and charities suspected of financing terrorism.
According to a May 1999 report by the U. S. Embassy in Saudi Arabia, Delta Oil was created by 50 prominent Saudi investors in the early 1990s. <snip> Meanwhile, information continues to circulate in intelligence circles in the United States and Europe suggesting wealthy Saudi businessmen have provided financial support to bin Laden.
Much of it revolves around a 1999 audit conducted by the Saudi government that reportedly discovered that the bin Mahfouz family's National Commercial Bank had transferred at least $ 3 million to charitable organizations believed to be fronts for bin Laden's terror network.
http://ist-socrates.berkeley.edu/~pdscott/q4c.html

But that audit supposedly never happenned and the story was supposedly a lie, quickly retracted two years earlier in 1999 (censorship and Saudi protection at work): http://www.usatoday.com/news/2004-04-12-correction_x.ht ... The claim was that the discredited Christian Kookoo reporter http://mccarthy.vg/articles/04/03/21/1752236.shtml wrote this story, ergo it is false. Yet there it is again two years later in the Boston Paper. Why? Because these guys know something about middle east banking, having covered local Seantor John Kerry's lengthy & successful attempt to bring down the criminal Bank of Credit and Commerce International. This is a bank whose subsidary loaned money to George W. Bush for one of his early oil failures. A bank his brother Jeb, then the Florida Secretary of State and of course son of the Vice President, went to openings for in Florida and again in Atlanta, lending Bush prestige to the new institutions. Abank found to be involved in money laundering, drug trafficking and terror funding. An institution that enjoyed the commerical affections of the aforementioned guilding moral light of Republican foreign policy, one Henry Kissinger. http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/20kiss.ht ...

The whole BCCI thing is fascinating, especially since catching them is one of John Kerry's signature achievements and an early strike at the heart of Islamic terror.
http://www.boston.com/globe/nation/packages/kerry/06200 ...
The BCCI Affair A Report to the Committee on Foreign Relations: http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci /
United States Senate bySenator John Kerry and Senator Hank Brown December 1992 102d Congress 2d Session Senate Print 102-140
or check out a more polemical reference I particularly enjoyed for weaving in the Facts about Bush family ties to this most-crooked-of-all crooked bank: http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2004/0409.sir ... .
Anwayz....Back to the commission...

Here's a letter from fired FBI translator and whistlebower and 9/11 commission witness Sibel Edmonds http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Sibel_Edmo ... to the chairman: You are now asking us to pledge our support for this report, its recommendations, and implementation of these recommendations, with our trust and backing, our tax money, our security, and our lives. Unfortunately, I find your report seriously flawed in its failure to address serious intelligence issues that I am aware of, which have been confirmed, and which as a witness to the commission, I made you aware of. Thus, I must assume that other serious issues that I am not aware of were in the same manner omitted from your report. These omissions cast doubt on the validity of your report and therefore on its conclusions and recommendations. Considering what is at stake, our national security, we are entitled to demand answers to unanswered questions, and to ask for clarification of issues that were ignored and/or omitted from the report. I, Sibel Edmonds, a concerned American Citizen, a former FBI translator, a whistleblower, a witness for a United States Congressional investigation, a witness and a plaintiff for the Department of Justice Inspector General investigation, and a witness for your own 9/11 Commission investigation, request your answers to, and your public acknowledgement of, the following questions and issues: http://www.911truth.org/readingroom/whole_document.php ?...

Here is the background on this mostly unknown but critical witness http://www.thememoryhole.org/spy/edmonds.htm, so much so in fact that the government has retroactively classified letters from Senators who are asking the commission to further investigate Ms. Edmonds' claims http://www.thememoryhole.org/spy/edmonds_letters.htm .

This astonishing story AGAIN has to do with protecting the Arab OILigarchy http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&ie=UTF-8&q=gra ... (and their traitor friends http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&ie=UTF-8&q=sib ... in the intel comunity) also. I found this purely speculative piece interesting in light of the hard cold facts linked above http://www.onlinejournal.com/Commentary/073104Mejia/073 ... and this story I then recalled from a New York Times article http://foi.missouri.edu/terrorintelligence/ciagiven.htm ... .

Some other Bush adminsitration officials are in on the venture that should've disqualified Kean: Former Bush Secretary of the Treasury Nicholas Brady and a former Bush assistant, Edith E. Holiday, are both on the board of directors of Amerada Hess , an American petroleum firm currently teaming up with several powerful Saudi families to develop oil fields in Azerbaijan.
"Another company that has done business with wealthy Saudis is international energy firm Frontera Resources Corp. based in Houston. Until recently, Frontera was a 30 percent investor in a $900 million project to develop oilfields in Azerbajian. Also investing in the project were Azerbaijan's state-run oil company and Delta-Hess, a joint-venture created by the Saudis' Delta Oil** and Amerada Hess.

Besides the hue and cry over Tom Kean's business dealings, 9/11 victims' family members http://www.911independentcommission.org / made quite a stink http://foi.missouri.edu/terrorintelligence/gpscall.html about the selection of Commission Director Phil Zelikow. No one in the mainstream press seemed to care much though. Much as their questions about why the Bin Ladens got to fly around while the rest of the country was grounded http://web.archive.org/web/20011108145853/http:/www.tam ... have also gone unanswered http://www.wanttoknow.info/010930nytimes .
___________________

Now of course this just a cascade of coincidences, I know.

Could be nothing at all after all.

Except these coincidences lead to a certain day, a certain set of events three years ago today when the laws of physics were suspended http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/compare/fires .... and the first and only steel framed buildings ever to collapse from fire went down. But the illegal destruction of the scene of the fire precludes explaining this unprecedented situation. Look what the firemen had to say on the matter as the site was being cleaned up: http://fe.pennnet.com/Articles/Article_Display.cfm?Sect ...
Planes apparently don't make special fires, at least not the one that flew into the Empire State Building http://www.evesmag.com/empirestatecrash.htm .

Senator Dayton's remarks on NORAD at http://911sb.org/911.wmv - innocent mistakes, just another coincidence of unbelievable negligence happening for the first and only time on this one particular morning?

Happy Anniversary - it's the third birthday of the most coincidence-riddled day in history.

In related news...

Molding public opinion here are this week's disappearing news stories. They wouldn't want ya to get the wrong idea about the Israelis, the other half of the religous wars our friendly leaders have been creating for us...

Everyone knows we funded Bin Laden & the mujahadeen. Everyone does.
http://www.fas.org/irp/news/1994/afghan_war_vetrans.htm ...

But almost no one knows Israel grew & popularized Hamas, finding the secular PLO in need of replacement, either as a partner or an enemy. I think it was to make it a religious war. That's my take only though. Still, the FACT IS that Israel directly funded Hamas. There seems to be a database error on the host, but here is the Google cache of the UPI story: http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:UisiAM8xJTkJ:www.upi ...
This disappearing UPI page ~could be getting censored since the AIPAC pentagon spy scandal is going on now http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=aipac+spy&bt ... . It would not be the only instance of censorship I have recently come across. Here is a story that did not last two weeks on the Houston Chronicle's website because it made the Israelis look like the NAZIS they are: http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:VCgMPCjfx5wJ:www.chr ...
We never listen to voices of reason...it's not as profitable as running drugs http://www.gwu.edu/%7Ensarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB2/nsaebb2.h ... and fomenting wars.
Ike had no trouble believing in the conspiratorial threats http://www.gwu.edu/%7Ensarchiv/news/20010430 / of the military industrial complex, taking the occasion of his last speech in 1961 to warn us about it. http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/%7Ehst306/documents/indu ...
The Best Defense is No Offense http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-306.html

[illiteratepresident]

40. the working links

WORKING LINKS POSTED HERE
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2341380#2341571

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. Tell you waht

compare December 7th, to 9.11 and how it is celebrated, ask your grand parents if this was used for political gain by FDR. It was used to mibilize the nation, it was an act of war... but he never kept saying it is becuase of december 7th.

Now the repukes have fully wrapped themselves in the bones of hte dead... and god my husband's patrol went from patrol to war patrol in an instant, and both him and I will do all we can to just not allow them to steal our dead.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[IdaBriggs]

17. No. It was NOT a NATURAL disaster, but an "On Purpose."

It is a direct reflection on the job our POLITICAL leaders did prior to the event -- in other words, THEY FAILED US.

[Grooner Five]

42. I don't think we should get over 9-11

It was a very black day in our history, and we are as unlikely to forget it as Pearl Harbor or the assasination of Abraham Lincoln. To pretend the event wont impact this country for many years to come is pure folly, and it's better that we learn from this attack and continue to debate the response to it.

Large-scale terrorism is a danger we'll be facing for the forseeable future, regardless of who is in the White House.

[Momma Mia]

4. I have to agree Dammit ...

For today only, I will try not to be too political.

I still remember that awful day! It makes me sad as well!

[Maddy McCall]

6. Completely insensitive...

Are you aware that there are MANY DUers who lost friends and family in the WTC tragedy?

How about you just get over trying to tell people how they should feel on a day like today?

Connecting the deaths on September 11, 2001, to the "second American Revolution" is ALMOST as manipulative as Bush connecting Saddam to 9-11.

[markomalley]

8. And I lost friends in the Pentagon...

...and I would hate their losses to be for nothing.

[Misunderestimator]

9. Like saying.... 9/11 -- Your spouse died -- Get over it!

:eyes:

[markomalley]

32. If your spouse was murdered...

...and you knew who pulled the trigger, you could wallow in self-pity forever, or you could take action to remove the problem.

Look...I lost friends in the Pentagon...so I did my share of mourning as well...but, we can mourn only so long. We need to avenge their deaths, or their deaths are in vain.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[markomalley]

33. I'm sorry if it's impolite.

Seriously. But...as I said above...the time for mourning is over. It is time to take action.

[soundfury]

12. They donÕt want us to get over it, They are

exploiting it.

911 was a lie.

[Slit Skirt]

13. you see that picture there

WHERE'S THE FREAKIN' AIRPLANE???
THE HOLE IS TOO SMALL
THERE AREN'T ANY AIRPLANE PARTS ON THE GROUND......

YEP, YEP they lied BIGTIME

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[soundfury]

15. DonÕt believe your eyes then.NT

[Slit Skirt]

16. no........I didn't say anything about the WTC

I said there are no airplane parts.........look for yourself
then look at pictures of other airplane crashes...they leave a shitload of debris....
where is the shitload of debris?

have you heard about the Northwoods Document or Progress for a new american century?

we may never know where the plane is that hit the Pentagon, but those two documents are real AND THEY ARE WHAT'S OVER THE TOP.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Slit Skirt]

19. I will entertain this only one more time

there are many pictures from the pentagon...no parts on the ground..
do you not find that curious?
there were security cameras in line where the airplane approached....
why is it that they confiscated those videos minutes after the attack, yet never released them to the public....
it is not my job to prove this happened....
it is my job to question it...that is all...question it.

you can not go around and believe everything this government tells you....particularly this administration. either you can sit back and be spoon fed the news or you can seek the truth...end of story.

read progress for a new american century..especially about how a "new pearl harbor" would expediate their goals. that was written by wolfie, cheney, rumsie...(all the neocons)
pretty frickin' scary

then read Northwoods on how the CIA wanted to create an attack on the US and blame CUBA so they could justify to the American people going into CUBA.
both are real documents....and it will make you think.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Slit Skirt]

23. I am not telling you anything other than

start asking questions....by the way....the roof was still intact after the crash..........it fell later
in a lawsuit...circumstantial evidence weighs heavier than eyewitnesses....
eyewitnesses make mistakes.

Pentagon a secret place? they didn't have any problem with these pictures or many others.....

read northwoods, which by the way was presented to JFK and he rejected it.

progress for new american century was created in the 90's...by the same team that is in power today.

AND IF YOU BELIEVE EVERYTHING THE GOVERNMENT TELLS YOU.....THEN THAT SAYS IT ALL.......

HAVE A GOOD SLEEP.....but I hope you wake up soon.

[elcondor]

25. I would be

interested to hear any rebuttal you have to my post below.

I honestly do not understand what point you are trying to make by stating that the roof collapsed later. The World Trade Center buildings didn't instantly collapse and the plane that attacked the Pentagon hit the ground before the building; thus justifying why the damage to the building doesn't APPEAR to be that great. As experts have stated; because it hit the ground first, much of the energy it would have exerted onto the building was dissipated. Exact quotes are provided in my post below and I can provide EXACTLY who said what, if you feel that is necessary.

I do not want to get drawn into an argument with you, but I cannot ignore your statements.

[Slit Skirt]

27. I too, do not want to argue....

but you seem to be reasonable...so I will try to explain.

I didn't say a plane hit the pentagon....the government did...where is the proof?

if it hit the ground first, where is the debris from the plane?
if it hit the ground first, why did it not create a hole in the ground.

"Most important is the evidence provided by photographs that were taken immediately after the crash. One crucial photo was taken by Tom Horan of the Associated Press just after the firetrucks had arrived but before the firemen had been deployed. (This photo is reproduced in Meyssan's Pentagate and on the cover of the 9/11: The Big Lie, and is also available on the internet. When this photgraph was taken, the west wing's facade had not collapsed. Another photo taken at this time shows that the hole in the facade was between 15 and 18 ft in diameter, contradicting a newpaper report that it was "five stories high and 200 feet wide" . This photo also shows no damage above the hole or on either side of it. And neither photo shows any sign of an airplane--no fueselage, no tail, no wings, no engines---or any evidence that the lawn had been scraped. Whatever struck the Pentagon made a clean hit from the air and went completely inside." pge 29
The more generic problem is that whatever did hit the Pentagon simply did not cause nearly enough destruction for the official story to be true. A Boeing 757, besides being so tall(40ft with tail)and having such a wide wingspan (125ft) weighs over 100 tons. Traveling at a speed of 250 to 440 miles per hour, it would have caused tremendous devastation. And yet, as a photograph supplied by the Department of Defense itself shows, "the plane only destroyed the first ring of the building". The second and third rings were merely penetrated by an aircraft small enough to create a hole only seven feet in diameter." pge 31
both taken from David Griffin's "The New Pearl Harbor"

there is so much more in this book...he does a very good job of methodically going through the official story and poking holes...

there are many, many books, videos etc. that demonstrate this point.
But understand...this is nothing...there is so much evidence out there that the official story is not the truth...if you are interested in it please investigate...it will open your mind.

If you read "Worse than Watergate" by John Dean you can understand the mentality of the neocons and how dangerous they really are. Project for A New American Century is very alarming. The fact that the Northwoods Document exists should concern citizens. Daniel Ellsburg himself said that it would not be the first time that the government created a crisis to justify their actions...and he should know being the whistleblower for the Pentagon Papers...

I am with a 9/11 group, and I am just trying to wake people up to ask questions rather than blindly believe the government's account. The families certainly question all of it, and work very hard to get our attention. I think they deserve our attention. I think if we don't pay attention to it...we may be in way more danger than we realize.

If you're not interested in this...let's agree to disagree...I am not here to convert anyone.

[elcondor]

29. Thank you for explaining your side further

I would be more inclined to examine your points further if it weren't for the fact that there were 64 people on American Airlines Flight 77 that morning. IF it wasn't a plane that hit the Pentagon: where did those people on Flight 77 go?

There is consistent eye witness testimony that a plane hit the area around the Pentagon, if not the Pentagon itself. I am a political science major; so I know as well as anyone how far reaching the government's powers potentially are. But you are asking me to suspend my disbelief as if I was watching a fantasy movie.

Photographs taken before the collapse clearly show the outline of an aircraft. And, as I mentioned before, the way the Pentagon is constructed has everything to do with the extent of the damage done that day.

The Pentagon is made out of steel reinforced with concrete and masonry throughout and is supported by concrete columns on the first story. These columns support a beam, slab, and girder system of flooring. So while it obviously isn't a castle, it's an incredibly strong building. Each side of the building contains 100,000 tons of concrete; versus the plane's weight of 100 tons and made of aluminum and composite construction.

But even if you choose to discount how the Pentagon is constructed--it still leaves my original question unanswered: where did flight 77 go, then? I did some research about Myssyan book you mentioned and he admits the government didn't destroy the plane. I am not being a smart-ass when I ask this, I'm honestly curious where you think it and all those people went?

I understand that many 9/11 families are questioning the government on 9/11: but in my experience it has been about the handling of the intelligence it received prior to the attacks. You say you are with a 9/11 group: I would be curious to know if any of the families who lost someone at the Pentagon are in your group. (A simple yes or no is fine with me, I understand the desire to protect their anonymity.) My father was in the army for four years when he was younger and one of his good friends was in the Pentagon when it happened. Unfortunately he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Though I only met him once, I can tell you he was a good man and left behind a lovely wife. SHE doesn't question the fundamental facts of the situation and it's not because she is naive or stupid.

But I do not think anything either one of us says is going to convince the other, so we will have to agree to disagree. I do not want you to misunderstand me: I do genuinely appreciate you explaining how you see the situation. It would have been very easy for one of us to just type in all-caps and have our posts deleted!

Shalom

[Slit Skirt]

30. I don't know what happened to flight 77

that's my question...where is it?

I don't trust the government...you do...you are right...nothing will change my mind.

peace

[elcondor]

31. If you don't know

where the plane is: your argument has no legs to stand on.

And I do trust the government. I just don't trust this administration. I will let that be my final word on this situation.

[Slit Skirt]

34. never mind...you don't get it and probably never will

i could explain but I am really tired of all of this....
like I said before, you trust the government ...that says it all
I wish you well.....

[elcondor]

22. I cannot believe I'm justifying

this insanity with a reply but here it goes.

You DO realize that the way the plane crashed, it's size, and the way the Pentagon is constructed has everything to do with the damage it inflicts, right?

When a plane crashes it is travelling at such a great speed that when it hits the ground it doesn't leave huge pieces of debris around. My apologies for the quality; but if you compare a picture of the Pennsylvania crash with the Pentagon one, it is easy to see why a wing wasn't sticking out of the Pentagon--which is what you seem to be looking for.

Flight 93:




And what about the people on the flight that went into the Pentagon? And their families? Are the passengers, pilots, workers all in some secret government protection program? Are their families perhaps having a mass hallucination that their loved ones were on that plane?

"The Boeing 757 struck Wedge 1 on the Heliport side of the Pentagon very low to the ground and entered Wedge 1 just to the north of Corridor 4 on the first and second floors." - Annual Status Report to Congress (see pic one provided)

"Some eyewitnesses believe the plane actually hit the ground at the base of the Pentagon first, and then skidded into the building." - CBS

"...it didn't appear to crash into the building; most of the energy was dissipated in hitting the ground, but I saw the nose break up, I saw the wings fly forward, and then the conflagration engulfed everything in flames...But I think the blessing here might have been that the airplane hit before it hit the building, it hit the ground, and a lot of energy might have gone that way. That's what it appeared like." - CNN

"As eyewitnesses described and photographs demonstrate, the hijacked airliner dived so low as it approached the Pentagon that it actually hit the ground first, thereby dissipating much of the energy that might otherwise have caused more extensive damage to the building." - Snopes.com

"The plane slammed into the west wall of the Pentagon. The impact was deafening. The fuselage hit the ground and blew up." - Delaware Online

"I watched in horror as the plane flew at treetop level, banked slightly to the left, drug it's wing along the ground and slammed into the west wall of the Pentagon exploding into a giant orange fireball." - James Madison Univ.

"Then he caught an edge of his wing on the ground. There is a helicopter pad right in front of the side of the Pentagon. The wing touched there, then the plane cart wheeled into the building." - Time

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JimmyHoffa]

43. Interesting

[Dangerman]

20. You're right.

No airplane parts, no jet engines, nothing.

I sense a big-time cover-up!

[markomalley]

26. You are right! They don't want us to...

...get over it! They want to use that as some type of pretext for expanding government police power. Normal for a fascist. Grieve, yes, we all grieve for the people we know. But, the only way to do a true rememberence of these victims of B*sh is to remove him and then to prosecute him!

[smirkymonkey]

24. I think that people are entitled to thier grief, but I also think it

should be private and personal. Unless you are engaging in it to effect some kind of concrete positive change in the world, there is something about public "grieving" that doesn't sit well with me.

Personally, I would consider it a dishonor to a fallen loved one to hold up my grief to be manipulated by the press and politicians. And yes, I did know people who perished on September 11.

[markomalley]

35. Amen! eom

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[robbedvoter]

45. "911 - can't take credit for a disastruous mistake" better said

It was a fuck up - not an accomplishment!