Michael Moore: Free the footage.

[gulliver]

When I last spoke with a Republican, I reminded her of Bush's 7 minutes of inaction caught on video after being told about the second plane hitting the WTC. She responded, "Well, that's from that Michael Moore movie."

We can't let that stand. The video of so-called Commander-in-Chief Bush "collecting his thoughts" while a hijacked plane made its way toward the Pentagon does not belong to Michael Moore. If anything, Moore screwed it up in F9/11 by redacting it and inserting snide comments.

I hope Moore will make up for this by placing the whole seven minutes on the DVD of F9/11.

And while he is at it, I hope he will re-edit the "Now watch this drive" footage to add that Bush made this callous joke in responding to a suicide bombing in Israel that claimed nine lives. Moore's editing made it look like Bush was being ridiculed merely for liking to golf.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bear425]

4. Welcome to DU...

Enjoy your stay.

[Crunchy Frog]

43. Yes, I wonder

whether he prefers marble or granite?:)

[Vickers]

5. "I am no Bush supporter"

Heh.

Hey, lemme ask ya this: what were YOU doing when you found out?

(I have a follow-up question.)

[Gluttony]

11. I was about to leave for work.

I was more than 7 minutes late.

[Liberal Veteran]

14. Well, I'd say you'd make a piss poor candidate for president...

...as does Bush, based on your 20 minute shock and his 7 minute indecisiveness.

[Gluttony]

27. 7 minutes right?

I am still trying to make sure that is what you people are talking about here.


The guy says God told him to run, lied about WMDs, and bans Stemcell research but we are discussing 7 minutes.


know when to say when.

[Vickers]

31. Hit "them" on all fronts!

Keeps 'em guessing!

Hey, you say you were late for work...where do you work?

[Liberal Veteran]

37. Challenger exploded 73 seconds after take off....Hindenberg took 34 secs..

...to crash to the ground. The 1906 San Fran earthquake lasted 1 minute. Mount St. Helens erupted and pulverized 150 square miles in minutes.

But let us not concern ourselves with 7 minutes.

[Crunchy Frog]

47. You may not understand this fact

but as many here who are emergency responders, in the military, etc. will attest, in an emergency situation, even just a few minutes can make a life and death difference.

I don't know if you've watched any of those emergency medical reality shows, but when someone comes into the ER pouring out blood after being shot, the doctors and nurses don't stand around in shock for seven minutes. They get right to doing whatever needs to be done.

It wasn't just seven minutes anyway. He already knew about the first plane hitting the tower and that planes had been hijacked before he even went into the school, and after he left the classroom, he spent yet more time on photo ops.

Once again, 7 minutes in an emergency, can be the difference between life and death, depending on how you react and what you do. What Bush did with those seven minutes means that he's incompetent to run the country. I regard it as a very big deal.

[nyhuskyfan]

56. Seven CRUCIAL minutes

It is entirely possible that nothing could have been done. It is entirely possible that if Bush paid attention to the August 6 PDB and actually had meetings with someone about it, or if Cheney had ever actually assembled a counter-terrorism committee after being assigned the task in February, or if Ashcroft actually said "tell me more" instead of "I don't want to hear any more about Al Qaeda" that maybe 9/11 would have happened.

It is entirely possible that if Bush leapt out of that chair, and was out the door and on a telephone in 30 seconds, that everything would have happened on 9/11 exactly the same way.

But maybe not.

What do you ask most from the leadership of your country? You can't expect them to foresee everything or be perfect. You can't expect that they can stop anything bad from ever happening to us. But I just want to feel comfortable that they do EVERYTHING they can. Maybe that's not enough. The Israeli government and intelligence agencies work incredibly hard, but suicide bombers still get through.

This administration fails that test miserably -- embarrasingly so. Top to bottom, they went on vacation, didn't meet, ignored warnings internally, ignored warnings from allies, and didn't adequately prepare. Think about everything we've learned regarding he months leading up to 9/11 -- the Hart/Rudman report, the Richard Clarke dossier on Al Qaeda, the Cole verdict in March, the warnings from Egypt (about 20 suicide terrorists in the USA looking to take flight lessons), the intelligence system blinking red, the August 6 PDB, the Phoenix memo, Zacharias Moussaoui, terrorists' historical infatuation with both airplanes and the World Trade Center. All of it. What happens to Chimpy on the morning of September 11? Before he ever walks into the classroom, someone tells him a plane has hit the World Trade Center, and what does he think? "Must have been a bad pilot" (this is the explanation given to the 9/11 Commission).

WTF? How do you not connect those dots? Plane - WTC - system blinking red - terrorists. How do you not fear the worst? How do you go into that classroom? Why aren't you on a phone checking into the details? Why don't you prepare for the worst case scenario until you are confident there's nothing to worry about? When the second plane hits, how do you not immediately want to check about other planes? Are there nukes or chemical weapons involved? Why wouldn't you scramble jets over all our major cities as a precaution at that exact moment? Maybe the second plane gets stopped from hitting the WTC if we act immediately as a precaution -- and certainly it's not outrageous to say that the Pentagon could have been spared (that plane hit almost an hour after the first one did).

If alarms start going at a nuclear power plant, do you evacuate? Or do you figure its a short in the alarm system and carry on as normal? You prepare for the worst -- and then adjust as more info becomes available, don't you? The instant you hear that a plane has flown into the World Trade Center, that's your alarm, if not at the moment that you hear a plane has been hijacked (how long had it been since an American passenger plane had been hijacked? 10-15 years?).

If the administration does everything it can, and disaster still strikes, you can't hold it against them. Or even if they do a lot, but in hindsight could have done more, then you can accept it. But they fail that test pre-9/11 and they fail that test that morning. They failed to do everything they could, they failed to plan, they failed to analyze, they failed to listen, they failed to prepare, they failed to react appropriately, they failed to respond in anything even remotely close to timely fashion, they failed to be decisive, they failed to lead, and they failed to protect us.

They failed. And Chimpy sitting in a chair for seven minutes is perfectly symbolic of that catastrophic failure top to bottom. When leadership was needed and immediate action was required, Bush sat in a chair with a book about a goat. For seven freaking minutes. Seven seconds would have been too long.

[Vickers]

29. Seriously!!! WTF is it with RWers and farting around when there is

WORK to be done?

Jesus, Georgie didn't even go look at it unfold on TV!

[Gluttony]

32. Oh

so now he was supposed to go watch tv?

[Vickers]

34. Well, fellow progressive *cough* ask yourself this: would you rather

that ignorant fuckstick dick around for half an hour, or go watch a news program to see what was going on?

Seriously.

You know, if you hang out here more, you might learn something!

[Name removed]

Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sffreeways]

40. This is the issue

The issue is he isn't fit to be president. He isn't fit to be commander of the military.

Why would he tell the children to piss off ? Is that all he's capable of ? Doesn't know how to excuse himself like a big boy ?

[Vickers]

44. *sniff* You hurt my feelings

:(

[sffreeways]

38. No, he wasn't supposed to go watch TV

that and just sitting there is what an idiot would do. He was supposed to be the commander in chief and get up, excuse himsef and go to a location immediately where he could begin to do the job of the president of a nation under serious attack.

Didn't he wonder how bad it was going to get ? How many more targets there were ? Should he be giving orders to the military to protect the nation ? I mean every second counted wouldn't you agree ?

[Gluttony]

42. I just think

that this is reaching for anything and this sort of argument makes our party look desperate. We can do better than timing the guys every move down to the second. No wonder people call us fanatical. Look what the hell you are using as an argument.


I would rather talk about his false war in Iraq.

[Vickers]

45. "our party" Har! Hey, it's not ONE thing this guy does that's stupid

It's EVERY FUCKING THING!

See, at the most IMPORTANT moment of his life, when the country he is LEADING (sic) has been attacked....he freezes.

Doesn't that just make ya wanna do something crazy, like vote for Kerry?

:toast:

[sffreeways]

46. Character counts

Who calls us fanatical ? Rush ? Who cares ?

It's not an argument it's an observation about his character and his ability to be an effective leader.

Sit in silence for 7 minutes and see just exactly long that is. It's a long long time when America is under attack. I can't sit still for 30 seconds if the teapot is whistling.

[Crunchy Frog]

49. Bye bye.

Been nice knowing you.:hi:

[Carolina]

59. even watching TV

would have been SOME form of action! The dickhead misleader you apparently support sat like the retarded dolt he is waiting for someone to tell him what to do.

BTW, your screen name is quite suitable for a repuke.

[rfranklin]

6. With Bush, every minute counts.

Where have you been?

[sffreeways]

8. Reaching ?

You so obviously don't remember that the President sat there looking like he had just shit his pants for at least 7 minutes.

It's not a reach to see that those 7 frozen with fear minutes were a perfect example of what a stone shit coward that awol criminal is.

For someone that is No Bush supporter you sound strangely like one. Have you been living under a rock ?

[Gluttony]

15. I have seen the footage and I think

you are embellishing the shit the pants thing.



We are talking about 7 minutes right?

[Liberal Veteran]

19. So do tell us: In the age of missiles, what is the appropriate response...

...for a president who is told the country is under attack?

1) Politely excuse himself to meet with his advisors and get a sitrep.
2) Sit there like a knot on a log contemplating what he should do.

[sffreeways]

25. Hmmm maybe you're right

it was more of a ...

Bush thinking for 7 minutes...

OH MY GOD HOW THE HELL DO I GET OUTTA HERE AHHHHHHHHHHHHH !! HELP ! HELP ! OH MY OH MY OH DEAR OH SHIT OH BOY I WISH I WAS OH NO OH OH AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!!! OH UM NO NO THIS ISN'T HAPPEN OH ING OH OH NO OH GOD OHHHHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!! OH GOD OH SHIT WHAT DID I DO TO DESERVE OH AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!! HOLY JEEEEZUS OH BOY DAMN WHERES DICK WHERE IS DICK AHHHHHHHHHHH !!!! MOMMY AAAAAAAAHHHHHH !!!!!!

[Jokinomx]

52. I don't think it was that at all...

I think he was shitting himself and didn't know how to walk out with dignity...:-)

[nostamj]

26. unedited, it was closer to 20 minutes

and even then he came BACK for a photo op USING the children again.

where was the secret service?
why did bushco endanger the students if they (after the fact) were so sure he was a target?
why did he even go into the school knowing that Tower One had been struck by a plane?
didn't he READ the 8/6 PDB (or have it read to him)? they KNEW an attack was underway...

why didn't he contact Rudy and order an immediate evacuation of Tower 2?

the only thing lamer than your attempts at disruption are the chimp's inaction that morning...

[Vickers]

36. Hey, you wanna see a loaf-pinching moment?

http://www.voxfux.com/features/timeline.html

Go down just a tad.

[Liberal Veteran]

9. Yeah, because when the president is told the country is under attack...

....that's the time to sit around for 7 minutes in shock surrounded by gradeschoolers instead of immediately excusing oneself to get a sitrep.

Sure. In an age with 7 minutes is half the time it takes a missle to reach New York from the time radar detects it, that's the kind of president we want to have, one who sits their stunned for 7 minutes.

[Gluttony]

16. We are seriously talking about 7 minutes right?

I just want to get that clear.

[alittlelark]

53. You are a glutton for punishment, aren't you?

Are you capable of composing a post that does not say '7 minutes' in it. I would suggest posting something like "Oh, my God...you all are right, what was I thinking? Tell me more" That will occur once you THINK.

[tridim]

10. 20 minutes? Is that all?

When I first saw the second plane hit I wrapped myself in the fetal position for exactly 27 minutes and 40 seconds. I know, because I started a stopwatch. I also drooled 2.4 ounces of saliva. I got ya beat pal.

[Gluttony]

18. Rrrrrrright

Good talk Russ.

[hlthe2b]

13. Ahh, such protestations....

The little chicken shit is impressive in his command of the situation on 911--surely! :eyes:

[Gluttony]

22. little chicken shit

You are a well spoken individual. That is plain to see.

[hlthe2b]

28. Bush was a little "chicken shit" on 911-- I stand by my statement

And yes, I can be a very articulate individual when it is warranted. Somehow arguing with a Bush supporter does not strike me as one of them.

[Gluttony]

35. Oh so now

because I don't agree with the masses on one thing that makes me a Bush supporter. Are you going to tell the priests I was dancing in the western woods with Satan as well? Will the towns people all gather to see me burned at the stake?



I wasn't asking if you stand by your statement. I was commenting on your lame retort. Your petty name calling.

[hlthe2b]

39. Your posts make your purpose here quite clear

Enjoy your time here, however short. I referred to Bush* as he was that day. That is not petty name calling.

I'm guessing the Free Republic crowd must be all passed out in front of the tv? Or, nothing on Faux to cheer at?

[alittlelark]

54. Do the orderlies know you're using the computer again?

[greekspeak]

20. How glad I am that you aren't president

As an unspoken requirement of a president, I think that "can perform job without freezing up and shitting self" ranks pretty high on everyone's list. I suppose that you can also rationalize away the little Louisiana-Nebraska puddlejumping stunt as well. Hope you enjoy your stay at DU. Nobody here is going to give Shrub a pass on this or just about any other issue. If you want unabashed acceptance of every cocamamie thing Shrub does, I suggest freerepublic.com as a site possibly more in tune with what you are searching for.

[Gluttony]

24. Who says he froze up?

You?


Oh well thats enough for me.

[greekspeak]

51. The cameras say he froze up

The fact of the matter is the man sat there for 7 minutes...7 minutes he could have issued orders, started balls and heads rolling, gotten up off his ASS and done something. The least he could have done was excuse himself and spend the 7 minutes talking to advisors or splashing cold water on his face. But no. "My Pet Goat" was more important at that time than the security of the country. Why not go back to what ever bizarro world whence you came if you want people to agree with you that Shrub is a knight in shining armor.

[Carolina]

60. get the back to the Freepery

and take your repetitive and wrong 37 posts with you.

[sambird90]

41. in a nuclear

age seven minutes is a lifetime. he is supposed to protect and defend country not sit there looking off into space wishing someone had big fat white line.:mad:

[justgamma]

50. What would have happened,

if Kerry would have taken 7 minutes to act when they were getting fired upon?

BTW, during the 7 minutes, did anyone notice when the cameras shifted to Card and the other guy? To me, they were both looking at Shrub and I could almost hear them thinking "Do something!" It was for just a moment and it stuck with me.

[mitchum]

55. Thank god (and the mods) that annoying asshole is gone

[Slit Skirt]

2. that video of bush

is at the memory hole


http://www.thememoryhole.org/911/

[shadu]

23. that is a great link

very useful - interesting, as well

[bryant69]

3. It's a real pity Mr. Moore didn't have you edit the film

It seems like you know a lot more than he does about documentary film making and how to make an effective movie.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[gulliver]

12. Ho hum.

Where have I heard that "So you think you know better than <insert name> here" stuff before? Oh yeah, that's the kind of stuff people say about Moore when he criticizes Bush's presidency.

It's a free country oh critic of critics.

[Gluttony]

30. Thats right

free for you and free for me. Thank you.

[gulliver]

33. You're the guy who thinks it's OK for the president to just sit there.

Please, don't thank me. I haven't helped you enough.

Go watch the video yourself. Watch what Bush does when he is told the country is under attack.

[nostamj]

48. and, while you're watching 'gluttony for punishment'

TRY to imagine how Clinton would have been SAVAGED had he behaved the same way.

not that something like that EVER would have happened with Big Dog, not only would he have been on TOP of the terrorism issue (which your POS--and STOP saying you're NOT a bushbot, I mean, there's lame and there's LAME -- put on the back burner until he could profit politically from it (remember HAPPY HAPPY GEORGE AND HIS "TRIFECTA"?? huh? do ya?) if an attack had happened he would have had the intelligence to excuse himself and address it.

"Gluttony" perfect. a deadly sin. did you stop at just one?

[bryant69]

58. Boy is there a lot of vitriol here

But at any rate, i like 9/11, and i don't see the same problems you do. And people should learn that it's possible to disagree with another liberal without being a bush bot.

But i suppose that's too much to ask

[stray cat]

7. From the 9-11 commission (5-7 minutes)

It is clear from the report of the 9-11 commission that Bush was inactive for much longer than 7 minutes on 9-11.

At 8:55 am Bush was told that a commercial airliner had hit the world trade center. At 9:05 Andrew Card told the president "a second plane hit the second tower, America is under attack. Another 7 minutes passes as Bush claims to project calm and remains seated.

At 9:15 he watched television to see the event. Up until 9:30 the attention of the president was on his address to the nation.

At 10:20 the president authorized the shoot down of aircraft if necessary.

"The defence of US airspace was not conducted in accordance with pre-existing training and protocols" because America's leaders did not lead. It was improvized by civilians.

The FAA acted independently to ground all aircraft.

Cheny bypassed the chain of command (the sec of defence and the president) to authorize a shooting down of civilian aircraft but he did it wrong and only thought the authorization went through.

Langley pilots were scrambled from Norad but were never briefed on why they were scrambled. The lead pilot was under the impression he was looking for cruise missiles from Russia.

It appears that the only thing Bush did between 8:55 and 10:20 was his address to the nation. This is while our nation was still under attack from hijacked planes and there were still opportunities to avert further attacks.
 

[in_cog_ni_to]

17. He's adding a WHOLE BUNCH of new footage

to the DVD. Buy it.

[gulliver]

21. Bet on it!

[mfritz]

57. Watch Symbolman's Flashmovie of Pet Goat incident

Good post, I agree. Have you seen Symbolman's Flash movie "911 An American Requiem" over at Take Back the Media? He made if WAY before F911, when most people didn't know about the My Pet Goat story. It's very powerful. First he runs through at timeline of the morning of Sept. 11. At the end he shows a split screen with Bush reading My Pet Goat on one side, the horror unfolding at the WTC on the other.

http://web.takebackthemedia.com/geeklog/public_html/article.php?story=20040606205749962&query=flash%2Bsymbolman