Debunking the forgery claim

[dansolo]

Instead of trying to track down hardware from 30 years ago, it should be a lot easier to disprove the basic premise of the forgery claim. The people putting this out have done a very good job of making people believe that the document can be recreated with Microsoft Word. But the fact is that Microsoft Word cannot create the document exactly. There are a lot of subtle differences. If that point is stressed, the whole forgery claim collapses.

[movonne]

1. I think Kitty Kelley's book will help put it to rest...they will be busy

trashing her..I think that might start Monday.

[bigwavebobby]

11. As fucking usual.....

We get to play defense. When do we take control of the issues?

[jjmalonejr]

2. Doesn't matter.

All the wingers have to do is create doubts about the memos to discredit them.

Creating doubts about the doubts doesn't accomplish much, other than muddying the water.

At least the AWOL story is back in the headlines. I hope there are more stories in the future with fewer flaws to exploit.

[Philostopher]

3. All they have to do is kill the messenger.

It's all the rage. We do it, too, but it's mostly through weblogs and places like DU -- we don't have the spread or traction the right-wing does.

I imagine while Nero was fiddling, he was piking everybody who tried to come in and tell him Rome was burning, too, to mangle an old (apocryphal) saying. Hell, he may even have had people sitting on burning chairs in the rubble arguing about whether it was really a fire or just a liberal myth about fire, I don't know.

[jjmalonejr]

5. Absolutely

Paul O'Neill. Richard Clarke. Ben Barnes.

Discredit the messenger. It works.

Unfortunately for the Repubs, the main messenger of the GOP is Bush.

Hmmm, how hard should it be to discredit him?

Keep attacking...at different times, different places, exploiting different vulnerabilities. Don't get caught up in ribbons or medals or typewriters. It's a waste of time. Hit somewhere else.

Not every hit will do as much damage as you like, but you just keep hitting. Bush isn't Superman, and even if he is, we'll find his Kryptonite eventually.

[Cha]

4. On c-span this morning they had the

question ..if the documents on CBS were forged?

It was from an article on the front page of the moonie times that was saying..Of Course they are Forged!

Like I'm going to believe the moonie times.

A caller said his aunt had a typewriter from 1968 that had the same th !

[chookie]

7. The "debunker" is obviously very young and not a pro document analyst

I had to laugh when the "critique" involved the "fact" that it was impossible to do a th superscript on a Selectric. As someone who was in college way before word processing, I knew I had used this key numerous times. It was just a grasping at straws by someone not very knowledgable about how documents are created over time. Maybe kids today doubt that old fashioned technology like Selectric couldn't do superscripts, but old hands like Dan Rather would know that they do, as I imagine he worked with one for many years.

BTW -- my parents had a number of very old manual typewriter that also had a superscript th. You had to hit a very unusual combination of keys to get it, but it could be done.

As to the "waviness" -- this is a very common artifact as well, as can't understand why anyone credible would pick up on it as an important detail.

As to whether they were forgeries -- my understanding is that the document expert CBS called in actually examined the originals, which would be a rich source of forensics.

[OilemFirchen]

6. With the tables turned, what would be the freekers drone?

"Everybody know the memos are authentic. Why are you afraid to talk about their contents? Everybody knows that George W. Bush is a deserter. Why are you defending a deserter? Why do you hate this country?"


Works for me.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

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[Bernardo de La Paz]

9. Nice try. Go back to Script Kiddie school or that other forum

The military did have such machines. Not so special and not so costly.

The superscript was built onto the ball, did not require a second ball. The "th" superscript was necessarily a smaller size than the main font on its ball because that's how superscripts are.

The spacing is due to the inevitable changes in image size in the everyday copiers and fax machines Rove used to send it to you.

You do not have access to the original for measurements.

No great amount of skill is needed to center lines of text. I learned how to do it early in 9th grade typing class. Though the skill level might impress a script kiddie unused to any technology earlier than Microsoft Word XP.

Microsoft Word does not have a feature to adjust the individual letters up and down on lines the way the memo is and the way typewritten documents come out.

-----

By applying Occam's Razor (no need for an educated person to Google it, though script kiddies would have to), we can see that the life long pattern George Wrong Bush exhibited of using his family's influence to get out of unpleasant business continues to this day.

Kerry bled, Bush fled. That is simple enough even for a script kiddie to understand.

[OilemFirchen]

10. I'm game.

Then off with you, troll.

If the memos are authentic:

You must believe the Texas Air National Guard had a special typewriter that cost over $20,000 in today’s dollars.

Nope. Composers had been available for six years. While they may have been that pricey at their introduction, they clearly weren't by 1972. There would also have been surplus available. And even if they were 20K in constant dollars, it's irrelevant. The military spends what it must to procur the equipment it needs. Especially the AF. Trust one who spent a career contracting with the military, instead of some yutz with a website.

Moreso, the memos could have been typed with an Executive - cheap and capable of producing the text.

You must believe that it was used to write everyday memos.

Why not? You think a clerk or secretary would switch typewriters based on the significance of what was being typed?

And that a special (read expensive) font ball was used.

Golf balls were reasonably cheap. What makes you think some were more expensive than others? That presumes, BTW, that a Composer did the trick, and that a Composer didn't have dual-pitch superscripting, like its predecessor, the Selectric II. Or, for that matter, the Executive.

And that the ball was changed to a smaller size (8pt) to create the superscript in the middle of typing the memo and then changed back.

That's how it was done for italics, bold, et al. It was a simple task for a secretary. Ask one from the period in question.

And that the spacing between lines (leading) was set to a highly non-standard (13pt) setting.

No one knows what leading was used on the original memos, but even if 13pt, it's irrelevant. On the Composer, changing leading was a simple twist of a dial.

And that special measuring was performed to produce centered headers.

The Composer did automatic, proportional centering.

And such special measuring was done exactly the same on memos three-months apart.

No need for it. See above.

And that all of the above was performed by a man that didn’t type.

Nope. That "all of the above" was done for him by someone who did type.



If the memos are forged:

You must believe that the most common word processing software was used.

And that it was set to one of the 3 or 4 most common fonts.

And that the most common margin settings were used (default.)

And that the most common tab settings were used (again default).

And that the most common line spacings setting were used (yup, it’s default!).

And that the moon is made of green cheese. It doesn't work. I've proven it. Have you?


Those still in doubt about the memos are encouraged to Google the term “Occam's Razor.”

Occam's Razor sez that if you're going to forge documents from the 1970's, you use equipment from the 1970's.

See how easy? The memos are genuine. Everybody knows that. Why are you afraid to discuss their contents? George W. Bush is a traitor. Why do you support a traitor? Why do you hate this country so much?

Say hi to freekerville for us, willya?