Call me what you will

[Proud liberal Kat]

I have a low post count...so who knows what I really might be.

But today...it is now 9/12 where I am on the East Coast. I remember the unity on this day three years ago. I am trying to understand the commonality I hold with those who equal it seems close to 50% of the country! No matter how you slice it a good portion of this country will vote for W, today I have been trying to figure out why. Because truth be known they aren't all evil, they haven't all joined a cult, and some have valid points. If I don't embrace them first, how can I ever hope to persuade. And if I am unwilling to even see my opposite as a coherent and good human being have I not become what I despise.

I just have a call for unity where we try to accept that our enemy is our neighbor. And for the most part they have the same hopes and fears as ours. And that we work toward some form of peace that allows some flow. Maybe the emotion of the moment has gotten the best of me, but it seems appropriate to me.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

1. The media's brainwashing has been effecitve

I just watched "Outfoxed" tonight and I recommend EVERYONE see this documentary.

RW media coupled with poor education makes an uniformed electorate and therefore democracy is threatened.

[AlCzervik]

2. I agree, gooddoc, well "Some people say" that.

:)

[Kathy in Cambridge]

4. That movie showed O'Reilly for the nutcase he is!

I never watch Fox News-I've seen it maybe 5 times-but I really can't believe they get away with such blatant propaganda. Josef Goebbels would be proud.

[mourningdove92]

3. I would love to see our country less polarized.

I cannot remember it ever being this bad. The atmosphere is like Watergate all over again, but this time, much worse.

In the name of fairness, I have tried to understand how people can support Bush. I just can't see it. Every time he opens his mouth, I want to slap him. Every time I see his face, I want to slap him. Every time I even think about him, I want to slap him.

I am well aware that I am part of the problem regarding the extreme polarization of America. But I can't help myself. I totally loath the man. He has betrayed our country, he has betrayed me personally, he has betrayed our allies, and he has betrayed our military.

And I still want to slap him. HARD

[Proud liberal Kat]

7. i agree

But those that support him aren't all evil, I don't want to slap them all. And they must have points that aren't being heard somehow elsewhere. I don't negate my true beliefs about this Administration and my true beliefs are strident, I will continue to do whatever I can to re defeat Bush.

But in the end, I am an American, and the divide cuts deep with me today. I am looking to find bridges and not divides. The bridges are rare and few and far between, but I feel I have ignored their existence for the passion of my cause. But if I refuse to even acknowledge or see 40% of the country at optimistic estimates, we will lead no better in fact in the end. There are good misguided people of intelligence out there who vehemently disagree with us.

My biggest point is they love their country, they love their children, and they don't hate the world, if I ignore them as citizens I ignore the solution in the end. Just some thoughts.
Kathy

[KAZ]

9. I'm sorry, I just can't agree with you.

Yeah, maybe they're not evil, but they are extremely misguided, and they love their side, not their country. I've voted repub many times in my life, but I can't, for the life of me, see how anyone can support this moron. Let's just put it this way. The dipshit is bad luck.

[Ladyhawk]

12. I feel the same way...and I've never felt this way before. n/t

I want to slap people I know who are going to vote for him, too.

[Eloriel]

24. This time there's a meanness of spirit that is more than just ugly

I remember the Watergate days, and the Vietnam era with all the conflict between people and among family members that that produced. This time is NOTHING like back then. Back then was all innocence and joy compared to now.

Now has a flavor of the jack-booted thug about it. In fact, "meanness of spirit" would be a vast IMPROVEMENT over what we've currently got. "Polarization" doesn't even come close. For the first time I truly do begin to fear some sort of civil war.

[proud patriot]

5. I pray this country can heal

:-(

[jbm]

6. I hear what you're saying..

I went to one of those small town country fairs tonight, and the people are nice, hard working, go to church on sunday and they really WOULD help out their neighbors, and when the republican float went past during the parade, they all cheered. When the dem float went by carrying a couple of timid looking candidates, I swear I think I was the only person there cheering and clapping. The candidates did look around to find the person clapping and waved and smiled at me.

I really REALLY think I was standing in the midst of a whole lot of liberals who have voted republican for generations..and they just didn't get the memo when the conservative democrats and the progressive republicans switched parties several decades ago. They do what they always have done, and they're loyal to their party even if they don't quite understand what it's up to.

I wish I knew how to connect with them in a way that would allow them to hear me. I actually gave my mother a history lesson once trying to get her to grasp that her ancestors were supporting liberal views when they originally chose their party affiliations, but she didn't quite get it, and didn't quite believe me. If anybody knows how to solve this problem, let me know quickly. I saw about 3,000 voters tonight who will probably vote the exact opposite of their worldview.

[KAZ]

8. 50% of those who vote.

Which by no means is 50% of "the country". Plus, I think there will be a good turn out of seldom voters this year, which will bode well for Kerry. Chin up, keep fighting.

[Proud liberal Kat]

13. My chin is up

I will not stop to the fight until my body is cold and without breath.

But with how stridently I feel, and how much I love my country. I feel the need to stop and not hate the Bush supporters to the same degree as I hate him. I have to figure out what they want. And not make sure I give it to them...but not make the next four years just as divisive as the last but in another direction.

The most beautiful experience I have ever had in my short life of 30 years other than personal zeniths like the birth of my daughter, my marriage, etc; was visiting the Episcopalian church across from Ground Zero. The tribute and the history and the love there is palpable without looking at a single word or tribute there. The unity was concrete, the abstract of love was made real, the foundation of unity was all that existed. IT WAS REAL, IT EXISTS. As someone who strives for that...I have found myself feeling emptier and emptier with each passing day of the campaign. Not because I think Kerry will lose, to the contrary I think he shall win. But because I was almost willing to do anything to make sure he did, and I most definitely dismissed about half our country, and my fellow citizens as freaking crazy, stupid and a bit touched by the demons. But they aren't, they are like you and me. AND WHEN WE WIN, they will still be there, and to discount them as Bush discounted the majority of the world and his own country, would to make me no better than him. AND I AM BETTER! I don't know what to do with these thoughts, I will keep up with the elect Kerry campaign, but I feel a burning for a get to know my enemy campaign, not so I can defeat them, but so we can work for the betterment of the country on November 3rd.
Kathy

[Swamp Rat]

10. The "Truth" is, they are alien lizards!

[Valerie5555]

11. OMG Reptilians

:scared: or Scary, David Icke wasn't as :tinfoilhat: as people thought.

[Swamp Rat]

18. Right! That's why I always say, don't vote for Bush! He's an alien lizard!

[Valerie5555]

21. Never mind the British Royals (or so according to the late Princess Di)

maybe the Bushies are the REAL "LIZARD PEOPLE"

[depakid]

14. Sorry but most of them are either

ignorant, intolerant or greedy. Quite a few are downright sociopaths.

I want NOTHING whatsoever to do with Bush supporters- not as friends, as neighbors or colleages. I may have to deal with Republican family members, but anyone else I take great pains to keep out of my life.

They are NOT the kind of people I want to associate with. Period.

[Proud liberal Kat]

15. should all other avoid your family

are they sociopaths, evil...do you care for them only for genetics...or do they have a worth if you distill their politics out. Should I spit at their feet if I see them for the sociopaths they are since I do not have blood relation with them?

[depakid]

17. I actually do avoid certain family members- absolutely

several are bigoted and ignorant crackers. I want nothing to do with them. Personal choice, based on their behavior. Others I deal with, but don't go out of my way to hang out with. Frankly, some of the things they say disgust me (and would disgust any reasonable caring person).

And no- I don't distill politics out of the equation- people who would cause immeasurable suffering- would deny kids healthcare- would encourage despoiling of the environment and work to dismantle public education- would wage wars for oil based on lies often are sociopaths or have sociopathic tendencies. Namely, they lack empathy and/or understanding. Or are wilfully ignorant. Either way, I don't have anything to say to people like that- and if you let them in, given the chance, people like that end up stabbing you in the back.

I don't spit on them- I just actively avoid them.

[raysr]

19. The past few days

I have watched many shows on tv about 9-11. Bill Moyers, A&E- Otta, and others. It is so obvious that Bush and his gang are reasponsible for that tragedy and yet they made politcal gains from it Anyone, anyone that can't see that and still supports him deserves more than a slap. Look at them at the RNC convention, these people only love themselves and those who they think can help them maintain whatever status they think they have. They looked like a bunch of freaks! Bandaids with purple hearts on them? These people are beyond dispicable. Christians, yeah right. Bullshit.

[vetwife]

20. They drew the line in the sand..as far as blood?

I have a fundie sister who goes to church every time the door opens.
I too am a believer but I am a liberal. She is a conservative. She bosses everyone or tries to. I have a disabled husband and a total of 7 people in this house. I took in my blind Father who is 82. She won't lift a hand to do a thing but bring him a can of potted meat and a bag of coffee on Saturday. I am trying to enclose my basement for more room. She does not help me clean his room when she visits on Saturday and she preaches how she has to go to the hospital to visit this person or that person. When my Mother died several months ago, she tried to run the show. She has two homes, three cars, four incomes, none she worked for. Yet poor mouths.

We are on a fixed income. No vacations, no movies. She has her Daytona trip, that is where she was headed when she bought the flashlight for Daddy. Sure he can't see but it got hot in that little trailer. I paid the lights bill and the water payment.

I work, I volunteer, and help my younger sister who has lost her daughter. She doesn't offer her help either. She cared for Mama and her daughter only child was killed in a car wreck. I found out she would send Mother 15.00 a month while I sent 200.00 to help before she died. I went bankrupt but it doesn't matter because I have no regrets. She buys for her 1 kid (forget the other) her grandkids and gives to the church. When they turned my Father's lights off two years ago, she bought him a flashlight, I borrowed money to get the lights on. I finally moved him in as I couldn't keep paying his bills and mine. She did nothing. She makes a difference in her two daughters. the one who has a nice home and a couple of vehicles, she caters to, the one who is divorced who is once widowed and once divorced, gets no help and she asks her to help with room and board while the other one who had advantages stayed for free while building a new home. She is a typical fundie. She served on the jury and believes in the death penalty. But you will go to hell if you believe in abortion. I never had to serve on jury duty because I say I don't believe in the death penalty and don't. She uses the N word yet teaches Sunday school. She thinks my Father and I are nuts because we are against Bush. Maybe she was always this way but I never saw it until Bush went into office. I got no use for her. Now some may say, well you are jealous..No I am not....
I have a good husband and she has one that bosses her around,I just say the one who is able to help should and after all I am not an only child, she too is and was their daughter. I am not an only child. I just have to act like one. IF Dad gets sick, she won't help with the medicine, I gladly dig a little deeper and buy it. I have taken my Father to the hospital before and she got angry because I would not drive 10 miles to pick her up as she did not drive at night, in a car she didin't trust. She had two over 21 one year olds in that house who would not take her to the hopsital (their own vehicles) and her husband forbade her to drive their new truck. Now ..you want me to just let all of this go. Anyone on this board knows I will chew someone's butt and call it like I see it and I have with her. To Devil with her good intentions, Hell is paved with them ! She will call me up once a week and ask how Daddy is. I now hang up after saying, what do you care.. Just today she said, When are you going to finish this room for Daddy? I said When you fork over some money, I am out. Got any? She left.

[sandnsea]

16. The Party isn't the people

The politicians in the Republican Party are just like Bush and have been for a very long time. He just isn't very good at hiding it. People are people and who knows how they're minds work. Decent in every aspect except when it comes to the Presidency, and it's ONLY the Presidency that causes them to go loopdeloo. Talk to them however much you want, as long as you remember that when a Republican gets to D.C., you may as well pop their brain out because they'll never use it again.

[Eloriel]

22. Sigh. Nice instincts, wrong application.

No matter how you slice it a good portion of this country will vote for W, today I have been trying to figure out why. Because truth be known they aren't all evil, they haven't all joined a cult, and some have valid points. If I don't embrace them first, how can I ever hope to persuade.

I'll leave the question of what "valid points" some of them might have for another time.

Do you embrace the rabid dog or raccoon that wanders onto your property? Do you embrace the mugger or killer who attacks you? Would you have embraced Hitler, or his top henchmen, or the SS or brownshirts?

You can "embrace" people who are reasonable and sane, people who are OPEN to being embraced and willing to reciprocate in some way. You cannot embrace fanatics, psychos, socio/psychopaths, fascists and fools. You can TRY, but you'll always come up on the short end of the stick.

Not all Bush supporters fit that characterization, but many do. You just have to be very, very careful which type you're dealing with. Go ahead and embrace the "embraceable" ones, but fight like hell the neofascists you run across, and fight like hell even harder the neofascists in elected office. They will TAKE your efforts to embrace them and use them against you, in a New York minute.

[vetwife]

23. Eloriel...You hit the nail on the head !

The story above about my fundie sister and you know this area. She is a raving fanatic and fundie loonie ! I don't embrace that behavior ! I deplore it !

[Yupster]

25. I blame the new media

for a good share of the blame for the country being so polarized.

Twenty years ago, we all had different political views, but we all watched the same news and read the same papers.

Today, there is no such common reference point.

I guess it started with talk radio, but the internet has made it much worse.

Today the right gets their versoion of the news and ignores or discounts anything that doesn't fit their version and the left gets their version of the news and discounts anything that doesn't fit their version.

Each side gets more extreme and when something doesn't fit the worldview, it is immediately ruled a conspiracy.

Opposing people aren't just wrong anymore. Now they're evil and part of some giant conspiracy. Hillary Clinton isn't just wrong. She murdered Vince Foster so he wouldn't talk. Just like Bush murdered Paul Wellstone.

We're now at the point when facts will never be sorted out.

Are the CBS papers forged? It doesn't matter. The decision has already been made. Regardless of whether they are forgeries or not, the left will declare them genuine and the right will declare them forgeries and each side will only read evidence that supports their own side.

It's a pretty grim situation.