will Bush call for a congressional vote on Iran?

[ulysses]

Next month, say?

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. Of course, so

it is time to start working our congress critters....

Now what I fear is any mistep he may not have to... we may not have an Iran to speak off, or Israel either, or ME... has the watch moved two or three seconds closer to Armagedon, over the last 72 hours, YEP

[ulysses]

2. will working on the congresscritters

do any damned good? Sure as hell didn't two years ago.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. mine at thte time voted against it

so you never know

Also this is the time to remind them that the evidience for war against Iraq is non existent.. yep where are them cute WMDs?

Problem is... Iran will GO nuclear. (Yes, yes there are bad actors in the world), but bush has already done his the kid that cried wolf too many times, so even if he came out and told me North Korea has nuclaer ambitiosn adn the sky is blue, I would still check the color of the sky and teh news wires regarding NK (Who seem to have exploded something over the weekend, quite possibly nuclear)

So you have to be very nuanced when contacting your congress critters, after all funny thing happened, there are some actors taht are truly dangerous to us (for more complex reasons than the ever so popular they hate us for our freedosm, more like they hate us for medling in intennal affairs over and over again). But they are still dangerousn and Iran may qualify...

[ulysses]

6. haven't we known for a long time

that Iran had a nuclear program? Same with North Korea.

I'm sorry, but we have hold our representatives responsible for responsible foreign policy, not only what will be popular in an election year.

[salin]

10. "We" first learned that things were heating up in North Korea's nuke

program just after the IWR vote... when it was learned that the Bush administration had learned SIX WEEKS EARLIER of the moves, and had done NOTHING... and worse yet.. sat on the information until after the IWR vote. Cute, eh. Real threat - fake threat. Don't act when there may be room to do so (strong arm negotiations with the Clinton team put the Nuke efforts of NK on hold/ice for a number of years) with the nation that really is a threat... in order to pressure through action on the nation that really is NOT a threat. Again, cute, eh.

[ulysses]

14. that's exactly the kind of shit

on which we're not holding our representatives accountable. That's exactly why we have to start nailing them to the wall, regardless of party.

[salin]

17. most folks... a) don't pay that close attention to the stories

as they unfold... nor b) remember the stories and note how various stories - esp if they unfold over a period of a year or more - twist and turn.

One would almost need a thousand Juan Cole's - each with a different issue focus - to be read by the masses daily... and who has that kind of time??? :(

[ulysses]

19. we have to realize what we're facing, salin.

These fuckers have organized exactly what we're witnessing for three decades and more. We've been on the ropes since 1980 because they've been planning this since the 1960s.

People don't pay attention to these stories and don't give a rat's ass about how they turn out because we've let the Magic GOP Wurlizer have the stage. If we're going to turn it around, we have to realize what we're facing and deal with it.

We're trying to deal with the symptoms instead of the root causes. Even now.

[salin]

21. they have a forty year jump on us...

but I think that the left is, for the first time, structurally starting to work to counter the whole juggernaut. There are more organized groups including left leaning think tanks that did not exist until the past 2 years or so... there are more policy groups, more independent political mobilization groups... a growing left leaning independent media (greatly aided by the internet). I think that there is a greater awareness on our side that to change the political climate, one almost has to reprogram the political discussion. Issues that were seen as nutsy 20 years ago (full deregulation, for example...) have become mainstream ideology which is accepted by many as "truth" (pure belief in supply side economics and trickledown is another example...) The thing is, I actually think that we have more access to voice more quickly than the right ever did. It took them twenty years to get that kind of access and it only was given to them because they fell upon an affable and charismatic front man (Reagan)... I think it is going to take many years of hard work, of continuous discourse, of spending money we don't have to support some of these progressive organizations... and I don't think that one or two election cycles will change things... but I do think that things have already started to shift and will continue to do so. As long as we keep remembering that this is work for the long haul... and that we can't ever let up.

[ulysses]

23. not "almost"

I think that there is a greater awareness on our side that to change the political climate, one almost has to reprogram the political discussion.

We have to reprogram the discussion wholeheartedly, without remorse and without shame.

[salin]

24. you are correct.

no almost about it.

[Cat Atomic]

3. Why would he? Our cowardly Congress already gave Tiberius the keys.

The IWR wasn't just for Iraq. The Bush Administration doesn't need to go back to Congress.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. Read it aagain

it was exclusive to Iraq

[Jacobin]

9. The original version was an Omnibus Conquer the Mideast

You are right. As re-written, it is limited to IraqNam.

Is Cambodia....er, Syria/Iran next?

Of course it is. PNAC is there for all to see (except the media which apparently can't quite seem to find the URL)

[ThomWV]

7. It Would Be The Kiss Of Death

People would riot in the streets if the twerp tried that.

[ulysses]

13. think so?

We should have rioted when we invaded Iraq, and we didn't.

[salin]

15. no but a heck of a lot of us did peacefully go out in the streets

largest world wide protest (for peace) ever... February 2002...

[ulysses]

16. I know, I was there too.

They shrugged it off.

[salin]

18. they would shrug off mass "riots"

as well.

[ulysses]

20. possibly.

What's the alternative?

[salin]

22. Doing what we are doing -

continuing to demonstrate, to write, to get more discourse going, to get more books published, to get more progressive media outlets and voices... in short to bring the left back into the mainstream of political discourse - and to view the efforts to do this to be a very long-term project. To devote on going time, energy and hard earned dollars to these causes. To not cede to the right just becuase right now, in the short term, they seem intractable.

[salin]

8. Didn't he already get kind of a pre-approval vote on Syria

wouldn't he just forge ahead on that front? Wackjobs the lot of 'em.

[Disturbed]

11. Congressional approval not needed

It seems that Israel will do the attack with US assistance, meaning mostly US war planes.

[salin]

12. With one, perhaps, but not both

would leave them too vulnerable on too many sides if they struck at both Iran and Syria.