there is no "Third Way".

[ulysses]

Bill Clinton rode into office on the promise that there was a way out of the conservative/liberal deadlock.

What we got was center/conservative policy wrapped in a pretty, bipartisan-looking cloak.

The cloak was a mirage then and still is now. We live in a partisan nation, sharply divided. DLC/Third Way policies do nothing but allow conservative policies to advance with little opposition.

Make no mistake - the DLC/Third Way era in our party is not over. We don't yet have the courage, as a whole, to stand for the things that *we* define as "the good". It will likely be years yet before we do. And until we do, we will continue to dance to the tune named by our opposition, a tune as alluring and ephemeral as the life of the next Iraqi child we kill with our next bomb.

[Cleita]

1. This is why I preferred Dean and Kucinich to Kerry and Edwards.

However, even right of the middle of the road is not far right fascism. This is the thing we are faced with. When a conservative like Pat Buchanan as well as others have publically stated that this isn't the party they joined, then we know a cancer is growing within the GOP and must be stopped. I hope more conservatives start examining exactly who they are supporting and why. The leaders of their party right now are not conservatives, but anti-American and fascist in every way.

[salin]

2. my dem senator remains to head the "thirdway" bunch...

saddly he sounds more gopish as the weeks pass... your thirdwayer (not even that) may have paved the way to see where our thirdwayer is heading :(

[ulysses]

4. fuck all of them.

Fuck Zell Miller, fuck Evan Bayh. Fuck the lot of them.

I've said it before - I regret one vote from 2000, and it isn't my vote for Ralph Nader. It's my vote for Zell Miller.

[salin]

5. In the general election... what is the option?

There is a noname republican running, Bayh, and maybe a libertarian. Bayh is going to win in a landslide. On some social issues Bayh would be better than the libertarian (Bayh did vote against the medicare bill and the energy bill... then again a libertarian might have done the same...) It bites.

[ulysses]

7. there is none...this year.

We have to take the long view. We've gotten through nearly four years of Bush, we can take a few more a Bayh. We just have to stay the course.

[salin]

8. hehe

I deserve that... sorta echoing what I am saying elsewhere... eh? ;-)

[jpgray]

3. I tend to agree

I still believe our strength is in the lower classes, and we should play to our strength. The Republicans know where their strength lies, and they whore to it shamelessly. As long as we have no original ideas for organization and slavishly copy Republican models because they are 'successful' for them, we are going to fail; because there is no way we can compete with them for courtship of corporate America and the elite without losing all the principles we value in the first place. We need to find our own way to power, and it lies in galvanizing those who have been spat on by both parties for the past few decades.

[dumpster_baby]

11. Great thread! This is the conventional wisdom among progressives

Unfortunately, there are no progressives in powerful positions anywhere, in the congress or senate or in the elite media.

I used to think that I had something to lose if minorities or poor people get a better deal. I used to think that somehow they were going to take something from me. But now I realize that it is the upper class who will lose. I can only gain.

The idea of strength from the lower classes would seem to be a good one. We know that 50% of all tax returns (joint and single) are less than about $35K and about 33% are below $20K. So why are the dems not on top? Because their platform is for the middle class.

I used to oppose illegal immigration and amnesty for illegals. I now think that an amnesty and liberalized latin american immigration would be the thing that could force the Dems to adopt a more liberal platform. But first we have to get Kerry in. THe GOP -- like the Dems -- is actually in favor of illegal immigration. THey like the cheap labor. But if we could just get those people to vote. Latinos really are quite liberal, truly liberal, at least as far as economic policy goes.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

6. What we have is one party with two wings.

One wing is reactionary. The other is conservative with "moderate" trappings.

Clinton left us with a cadre of true believers who think that the only way to beat the right wing is to move to the right. We now get candidates who extoll conservative causes and try to convince everyone that they're not "liberals". Our congressional Democrats roll over at every reactionary move that is wrapped in the flag or backed by the military.

We have been forced into a corner of either voting for a "moderate" Democrat that espouses conservative values or allowing a rightwing redneck, verging on fascist, remain in office.

I'll be voting for another tepid, moderately conservative Democrat again this time. But, with no enthusiasm, or much hope that he will win on a platform of "I'm not as bad as Bush".

[ulysses]

9. believe me, bandera,

I understand.

[salin]

10. non sequitor... hey Uly...

'bout to sign off (and that means for the week...) just wanted to tell you how much I have enjoyed being able to do the Du dialogue thing this afternoon! Please send my hellos to Mrs. Uly!

[TahitiNut]

12. The "Third Way" isn't new.

Benedict Arnold advocated the "third way."
Vidkun Quisling advocated the "third way."
Marshal Henri-Philippe Petain advocated the "third way" at Vichy.

Lest anyone think the history of fascism isn't a guide, allow yourself a stroll down memory lane ...

Under the Vichy puppet regime, Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité (Freedom, Equality, Brotherhood), the French national motto, was replaced by Travail, Famille, Patrie (Work, Family, Fatherland).

Sound familiar?