"60 Minutes" bugged me tonight...

[BiggJawn]

Never mind that I think it was a re-run (Andy Rooney and that story on ID theft were recycled) what got me was the DNA story.

College Co-ed raped and murdered. police start "Asking" people to "Volunteer" to give DNA samples, because they had suspect DNA from the crime scene.
What bugged me was that if you refused to give a sample, you immediately became a "person of interest" in the case.

They had the girl's father on saying pretty much "If you don't want to give a sample, then you must be the killer of my little girl..." and that was the attitude of the DA, as well.Oh, the DA also said you may be hesitant because you've either already committed other crimes or MAY BE COMPTEMPLATING commiting a crime. Shades of "Minority Report!"

Oh, PLEASE! why not just bind me hand and foot and throw me in the river? If I'm guilty, the water will reject my body and I'll float. If I'm innocent, then the water will accept me and I'll sink.

If you have nothing to hide, you'll comply with this "voluntary" request for a DNA sample....

21st Century, and we still work the Judicial process like Theodoric of York, Medieval Judge....

[canuckybee]

1. "MAY BE CONTEMPLATING "

Is that anything like "having the intention to try to get nuclear weapons"? Makes you think about where the country is going doesn't it?

[Philostopher]

2. Sounds to me like if you were male, knew her and

weren't a eunuch, you were a 'person of interest,' to me. After all, taking a DNA sample made you a POI, refusing the sample made you a POI.

Yossarian is sitting naked in a tree watching it all from a safe distance, of course. Eating chocolate-covered Egyptian cotton.

[swag]

3. The Bill of Rights has proven disposable this century.

[in_cog_ni_to]

4. I saw the story and found it VERY disturbing

that people actually VOLUNTEERED to give DNA samples!

Do they really think a murderer is going to come forward and give DNA. The police also said that the DNA would NEVER be used in any other case against you. Hahahahaha! I had to laugh! Are we REALLY suppose to believe BIG BROTHER when they say shit like that??? Not me. There's NO WAY I would ever volunteer to give DNA to prove my innocence. Let THEM do their fucking job and prove me guilty.

[BiggJawn]

6. Exactly. The "Burden of Proof" in this country...

Is NOT upon the accused to prove their innocence, it's on the State to prove, beyond a REASONABLE DOUBT, guilt.

9-11 changed NOTHING! I don't care if there *IS* a "War" on Terra!

You suspend the Constitution, THEN you tell me that my refusal to comply with your "request" makes me look very guilty, until then, go fuck yourself, Mr. Blue-Legs!

All those stupid Sheeple who thought NOTHING about giving a sample! I suppose their fucking Magic 9-11 Teddy Bears told 'em it'd be OK...

And I'd tell that to the poor, bereaved father's face, too. Sorry, mister, I'm a father, too, but your loss doesn't cancel anyone's Civil Rights here. If I don't wanna jerk-off for the nice policeman, that's just tough shit, isn't it?..

[jdj]

5. With a DNA database, you might refuse not because you're

guilty of this crime, but of another.

this is how they caught Mia Zapata's killer, he was serving time and had to give a pre-release DNA sample, and with this they nailed him for her murder.

[BiggJawn]

7. And I might refuse because i don't want anyone making free....

...with my chromosones.

they build up a big database of everyone's DNA, can you imagine how much a company wanting to cut down on insurance costs would pay for "information"?

"Jane Doe? Havard MBA, Peace corps volunteer, was in the Young Republicans...Oh-oh...Genetic report says she's gonna cost us out the Kazoo in about 10 years with Cancer and Bipolar...."

Can't happen? Hey, they can make-up just SO much budget shortfall with traffic tickets, they need new revenue streams....

[Warpy]

8. That's how they got this killer, too

Not from taking DNA samples from everybody she knew.

However, DNA can rule you completely out as well as rule you in. If you've got the cops following you around because somebody you used to date turned up raped and/or murdered, it's best to go ahead and give the sample so they'll stop wasting time on you and go find the guy who did it.

[BiggJawn]

9. I can't believe you said that...

"... it's best to go ahead and give the sample so they'll stop wasting time on you and go find the guy who did it."

Do you offer to turn your car inside out when they pull you over so they'll let you go quickly instead of delaying you 4+ hours waiting on a warrant, too?

there'd be No Fucking Way. These are the guys who hire the labs they use to bust you for drugs when you've had a poppy-seed bagel, don't forget....

[Warpy]

10. It depends on where I'm going

Seriously, I'm an old lady who is on nobody's profile list, so it really hasn't come up. I did tell a cop who hauled me in during a general sweep in the 60s that if he wanted to look in my backpack, he was either going to have to arrest me or get a warrant. He lost interest.

If you are being considered as a suspect in a rape and/or murder, they will request a cheek swab sample. If you get stuffy, they'll get the warrant. Plus, they'll follow you around and make your life miserable until they do.

Personally, I'd rather be cleared of the crime immediately, alhtough if I think somebody's on a fishing expedition, I'll dig in my heels and get in a complete First Amendment mood.

What you do is up to you.

[BiggJawn]

13. Believe me, with my exciting lifestyle....

Any gum-shoe wanting to swab my cheek HAS to be on a "fishing trip"....:-)

[Rex]

11. Obviously you are guilty of some near-crime

Otherwise you wouldn't have been bothered by the 60 Minutes episode. Turn youself in now - before it's to late! :evilgrin:

[BiggJawn]

12. Yes! I confess!

I'm guilty of INDEPENDENT THOUGHT!

And "Failure to Drink the Kool-Aid", too!

[Rex]

15. AHA! Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

Pontiff - book him for "critical thinking without a license"!

[TexasBushwhacker]

14. Simple, know your rights and stand up for them

If you don't want to volunteer your DNA, tell them to get a warrant. If they don't like it, tough shit.

[acmavm]

16. We have a nice little controversy going on here in Omaha because

of a situation just like that. We had a serial rapist going around supposedly impersonating an Omaha Public Power District worker. The rapist was black. So the police told OPPD that they wanted to screen black workers. And OPPD gave them names to contact.

All hell broke loose. We also have a black State Senator by the name of Ernie Chambers. He is quite a pistol. He is not very fond of white politicians, but the one thing I will say about Senator Chambers, if you're being jerked around he doesn't care if your black, white, or sky blue pink, he'll fight for you to the bitter end. He is one of those rare politicians who will take on an unpopular cause. Anyway there is not a battle between Ernie and OPPD about the whole ordeal.

Quite interesting, can't wait to see how this comes out.

Oh yeah, Ernie Chambers has a local show an cable access. He's been extremely vocal about all this one that show. I've missed it lately so I don't know what he's been up to. This story reminds me, I must try to catch up and see what's gone on lately.

[slaveplanet]

17. The Guy who claimed

there are only 2 reasons not to submit to DNA testing, is a major asshole and an enemy of the Constitution.

his claim - only those who are criminal or going to do something criminal in the future, are the only 2 types who won't submit.

my claim- what about those innocents they intend to frame Up? after all the authorities have never framed anyone....

Shame on CBS for pandering to the fear and precrime slavemasters....

[LosinIt]

18. Some of my coworkers went cheerfully to be fingerprinted

in order to be able to work on cases from a government agency. They thought nothing of it. I guess I have read way too much about what can and has happened to a society to ever consider freely giving of my personal info like that. I just started a book on the German Resistance to Hitler. It has so many parallels to what we are facing today that it might be time to be fitted for another tinfoil headpiece.

[BiggJawn]

19. What's the title of that book?

I've read quite a bit about the other resistance groups, but not German groups. Sounds very interesting.

[LosinIt]

24. It's "An Honourable Defeat"

a History of the Resistance Against Hitler. The author is English as you can tell by the spelling.

[Grins]

20. Burden of proof is the government's job

The guy that said it best on that show was William Moffitt, past president, of all things - the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers (Bush hates him, he's a damned trial lawyer). He said that’s not the way we do justice in the United States. Police are supposed to have probable cause and a warrant before going after people, and he’s right. The founding fathers made it clear that the government had the burden of proof. The citizen is presumed to be innocent and does need not prove his innocence.

The cops and DA in this situation are just plain lazy. Allowing police to make huge sweeps on citizens is a sign of a police state. Didn’t these idiots (and attorney’s at that!) ever study the foundations of our republic?

[bleedingheart]

21. it is a feeling of violation...

which is how women feel when people want to search their medical and sexual past...or when they want an abortion...

while I agree with you that it is medieval this country this is exactly the kind of stuff that happens as people happily sign away their rights for the "greater good"...and it reeks of the puritanical lemming like behavior that is being promoted in this country.

Now if there were men who were suspects it would make sense ..but to ask for everyone in the community to come forward to rule them out...that means their police department hasn't got enough evidence to point to a suspect or they are terribly lazy and won't do enough leg work to get the evidence to justify some dna tests in particular individuals.

[MadHound]

22. The public was inocculated to this type of thinking twenty five years ago

This is a direct outgrowth of the war on drugs. Then it was "well, if you're not guilty, then you have no reason to; not give us a urine sample, search your car, search your backpack, give us a blood sample, hair sample, etc. etc." And people fell for it, with the help of some unconstitutional law enforcement action. Now it has gotten to the point that you can be pulled over, asked for permission to search your car, and if you don't give it, that automatically becomes probable cause for the issuing of a warrant and bringing in the dogs.

Same mentality is now being applied to the use of DNA and the prosecution of all crimes. The War on Drugs is and was a terrible assault on our civil liberties, one that was aided and abetted by both parties. And since both parties want to appear tough on both the War on Drugs and the War on Terra, neither is going to stand up and do the right thing and denounce this wholesale stripping of our civil rights.

[dmr]

23. I was yelling at the TV last night

Under no circumstances would I freely give my DNA to law enforcement, or anyone else.

The old saying that 'if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about' is nonsense.

My son and I watched the show together. I looked at him and thought how the police and a community might intimdate him to volunteer a piece of himself to prove he is innocent of a crime that he isn't even a suspect. Just by the sheer refusal, he could be made a suspect in the eyes of the very community in which he lives. That is insane! Once a negative seed is planted, it is hard to escape it.

On top of that, there is the issue of insurance companies, employers or anyone else who performs a background check in getting ahold of information that is none of their business. It reminds me of a Robin Cook book on how an insurance company made millions on DNA information they slyly obtained.