What do you think of the Flag Desecration Amendment?

[bleedingheart]

Poll question: What do you think of the Flag Desecration Amendment?

Personally I think that whether or not burning a flag is distasteful it should be considered freedom of speech or expression.

If this passes then what about a law that would making speaking out against the president or your senator a crime?

We are slipping into fascism and many don't even realize it.

One thing that may result is that if the amendment includes improperly displaying the flag, burning and perhaps letting the flag touch the ground as against the law then maybe people will decide against displaying them at all.....then flag sales may plummet because it will become too much of a hassle to follow the letter of the law.

If they pass it then I think it will be a hoot when people start calling the cops on their neighbor because they didn't take the flag down at night...when we all know that it should be illuminated if displayed overnight...

[Radical Activist]

1. The first amendment is for unpopular and offensive speech.

Forms of political expression that everyone agrees with don't need first amendment protection, because no one tries to stop it.

I think it's ironic to limit our freedom of expression in regard to a flag that is supposed to represent freedom and liberty. People who support that amendment are fighting the intent of Bill of Rights.

[bleedingheart]

3. the ones who support it probably can't read very well

our first amendment rights are being trampled..

[kestrel91316]

18. I burned a tiny American flag once..................

in protest against an attempt to pass an anti-flag-burning amendment about 15 years ago. Don't you DARE try to limit my freedom of expression!

[smirkymonkey]

2. What a ridiculous waste of time!

I am sick of all these red herrings intended to rile up the moronically patriotic, meanwhile distracting from issues that are actually relevant.

[bleedingheart]

yeah...why worry about healthcare when we can worry about flag burning

cuz you know there are just a few flags being burned but just a few tens of millions without healthcare...

[rocktivity]

24. Veterans have more important things to worry about-

Like the way Bush's cuts to their benefits and services descrated their future way of life!

:headbang:
rocknation

[Cobalt Violet]

4. I'm with you on this one.

We are so quickly becoming a fascist country. We are hemorrhaging our rights away.

[demosincebirth]

5. There are more important things than flag burning.

[SeekingTruth]

32. Like understanding the concept of true freedom - try this....

When I was in the army back in the early nineties, the issue of flag burning was heating up. When one joins the military he or she has to take an oath that he or she will uphold the laws of the land.

Knowing and appreciating this, I would ask fellow soldiers what they would do if someone burned a flag in front of them. The very largest of majority of those asked would say things like, "Kick their ASS!"

I then would ask them if they recalled the induction oath they took about upholding the laws of the land and remind them that the US Supreme Court ruled that burning the flag is a form of speech. Most would walk away muttering.....

[NinetySix]

6. You mean desecration like this?

[bleedingheart]

8. good question...

wonder if we could prosecute * first if the law passes.

[NinetySix]

13. The flag under any such law must be defined

So I've always thought that if such an amendment were to pass, consequently causing an enourmous number of flags to be burned in protest, people protesting the new law could do one of several things:

a) burn a characature of the flag, i.e., one that does not conform to the flag as defined under the law, for instance, one with 52 stars or 9 stripes.

b) burn the flag of another nation that merely resembles the US flag, like those of Liberia and Malaysia:




c) my personal favorite, sew your own flag with green and black stripes and black stars on an orange field, photograph yourself burning it, then post the negatives (showing the colors as red, white and blue) everywhere you can think to display them.

edit:space between the two flags

[Flammable Materials]

15. A close-up of this image reads:

"0wn3d"

[serryjw]

17. OMG Even I wouldn't do that!

I agree it is a red herring so we don't talk about issues that are important,

[ReaderSushi]

7. Throw it back in their faces.

If they make flag burning illegal, then make the confederate flag illegal as well. After all, if one is unpatriotic then other must be outright treason right? Personally, I think both are legitimate forms of rebelling but you get the idea; don't let conservatives have it both ways. And yes I know not all conservatives wave the stars and bars, it's mostly southern ones and only the loons.

[Flammable Materials]

16. Burning Confederate flags sounds like a wonderful idea.

Too bad I'm not going to waste my money buying one to try it out.

[mitchum]

25. Believe it or not, in 1970, political activist Brett Bursey was jailed...

in SC for burning the dixie loser rag. Incredible. By the way, this is the same Brett Bursey who was recently found guilty of violating the boy king's mandated "free speech" zone. Again, incredible.

[CalebHayes]

9. Free speech!

[alittlelark]

10. Bu*h has already desicrated the flag with his ACTIONS

to such a degree that it will not be looked at with respect by other countries for generations.

This legislation is whacked.

[dave123williams]

11. Nobody ever died for the flag...

The flag is a SYMBOL of freedom, the very freedom I might add, to burn the flag in protest.

IMHO, because it's a symbol of freedom it's only necessary to burn it when freedom is debauched. Like now.

[Flammable Materials]

12. I never, EVER think about burning flags.

And then something like this comes along and, BOOM! Now I'm thinking about it.

Thanks, Pugs, for putting a thought in my head that wasn't there before.

[Swamp Rat]

14. I will NEVER obey any such law/amendment!

I consider it a desecration of our Constitution to amend it thus.

[Kazak]

19. Aren't you supposed to burn flags?

Or is my recollection fuzzy (wouldn't be hard to believe). But I thought burning a flag was the proper we to dispose of a flag that has been worn out.

I went to the OU vs. UofHouston football game on Saturday (Sept. 11) and they were handing out these little flags that you were supposed to wave in conjunction with all of the patriotic events that they had planned. I ended up with one and originally didn't mind so much thinking it might be time to show a little patriotism. Hell, just because I'm liberal, it certainly doesn't mean I don't love my country!!! Anyway once the ceremonies were over I thought to myself, what am I supposed to do with this thing? Now that I've got it, If I want to observe proper flag etiquette, I can't let it touch the ground, right? I certainly can't throw it in the trash. Now that I have it, am I going to have to burn it, to dispose of it properly? This is what I hate so much about all of the phony patriotism with regards to the flag (flag stickers, flags with people (John Wayne, Bush) superimposed over the stripes, etc...) that we see now-days, that it fails to show any real reverence or even flag etiquette toward the flag.

[bleedingheart]

39. you are correct the only way to dispose of them is to burn them

[skygazer]

47. That's correct

But if I remember correctly, there are only certain organizations that are authorized to dispose of flags in that way. The Boy Scouts are one, I'm pretty sure and maybe the VFW? You're not supposed to do it privately, I think.

[RoyGBiv]

20. Burn it ...

The amendment that is.

[rocktivity]

21. If you don't have the right to destroy the flag

you don't have to right to display it.


rocknation

[partygirl]

22. I don't have any opinion

at all. Isn't that sad? My parents were flower children, they have a photo of a protest where they burned the flag when they were young. When I was growing up, they used to be very in favor of being able to do stuff like that in protest so as a young kid I thought that was cool. My mother even made me a pair of pants that had a flag sewn into them and when I was in grade school I got sent home for wearing them! No kidding!

But, a couple of years ago, we started seeing all kinds of people wearing flag stuff and now my parents are dead set against it. They talk about how disrespectful it is for the people to wear flag hats and shirts and junk. It makes them SOOO angry to see people wearing the flag and disrespecting it that way.

So it is hard for me to know what to believe. Obviously even people like my parents change their views over time. It is much more complicated than it seems. I really haven't decided where I stand yet.

[TahitiNut]

29. Yup. That's sad.

:eyes:

[Bridget Burke]

30. "Flower children" were generally not politically active...

Odd that yours were.

Finding mistreatment of the flag distasteful is not the same as wanting to change the Constitution to prevent it. Is that really your parents' current belief?

[partygirl]

33. really? Interesting, my parents

met at UC Berkely in 1969, they were both graduate students at the time. They were flower children (nowadays my father looks pretty normal but my mother looks like an aging hippie!) they were extremely politically active at that time as were all of their friends. They have plenty of stories and some pictures to prove it. You find it odd that they were politically active? I will share this with them I find your comment odd, because they raised me to believe that political activism is so important. I know that they are still friends with many of the same people from grad school, and they were all very politically active as well. I do not think any of these people considered themselves at all "out of step" with their peers. But if you say so, then perhaps you are correct. Perhaps my parents and all of their politically active friends were quite odd I just had never even considered that possibility before.

I do know that my parents are super cool and they have even partied with their children and our friends a little (well with my mother at least). I would share more details but I don't want anyone to get busted, because we have done some illegal (but helluva fun!) things together.

My parents hate people showing their patriotism by wearing flag stuff. But they used to wear flag stuff themselves but not to show patriotism. So things have changed. They are not into the flag or other symbols. I have no idea how they feel about this ammendment to the Constitution, we have not discussed it. I don't know how I feel because really this is the most I have ever thought about it.

[Bridget Burke]

37. Then talk to them about the Amendment.

Apparently they thought about political things when they were young--so why don't you follow in their footsteps? A Constitutional amendment is a rather serious thing. Are you politically minded at all? This would be a good time to get involved.

And about the "flower children" comment--that was not really a phrase anybody used to describe themselves. It was more a journalistic label. Generally, it would be applied to the more hedonistic members of the counterculture rather than the more serious politicos. However, there was quite a bit of overlapping. Are your parents still politically active--or at least, interested?

[partygirl]

42. my parents are extremely active

in politics and many other social causes. I just have never thought about this particular issue. I don't really see how it is that important. This will probably never be an issue that I get involved in. I save my energy for things that speak to me such as abortion. I was raised not to care about "symbols" and so it doesn't matter to me whether people worship the flag or not. People who feel strongly about this are the people who should become activists regarding this issue.

And my mother calls herself a "flower child" jokingly I suppose. That is why I called them that. Interesting that you claim to know so much about ALL the people in the counterculture of that time ie they would not use that phrase to describe themselves and they would only rarely be politically active. But yet my family and their friends do not fit your ideas at all and they are the only members of that counterculture that I know. I am sure that you must know a lot about that time since you claim to, however maybe you don't know all about EVERYONE in the counterculture and you cannot speak for all of them. Definitely you do not speak for my family or their many many friends. I am sure that you mean well and are only trying to educate me, however what my parents tell me is what I will believe about that time. I know that I can trust them much more than someone I have just met on the internet.

[mitchum]

23. Of course I believe in the sanctity of cloth...

it's right up there with fetus worship.
A stupid amendment for stupid people.

[smirkymonkey]

26. Touche!

:evilgrin:

[Vickers]

38. "the sanctity of cloth" LMAO! What next, a ban on acid-washed jeans?

:crazy:

OK, really though, who wears acid-washed jeans anymore?

[AntiCoup2K4]

27. As long as they want to pass ammendments, how about one that's useful?

No member of the Bush family, nor anyone with any genetic link to the Bush family shall be permitted to hold any elected or appointed office

That alone would benefit this country far more than any ridiculous hype about burning a fucking piece of fabric, or paranoia about gay weddings.

[LWolf]

36. insert this and you've got an amendment:

or financial after the word "genetic."

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

28. Rethuglican PR.

They trot this sorry crap of an amendment every few election years to make the DLC types squirm and win a few points with the idiots who think burning a symbol is threatening them.

[SeekingTruth]

31. One that has always baffled me - American Bald Eagle vs Flag

Isn't so sad that in our past the American Bald Eagle was fair game for hunters and even today people give less care towards a living, breathing symbol of America versus that of a inantimate object such as a flag...(I'm not saying the concept of the American flag isn't important, just that something such as the American Bald Eagle should carry just as much weight, if not more).

[FlemingsGhost]

34. First thing I do, if it passes:

Take a shit on an American flag, and promptly deliver it to the doorstep of the nearest federal building. With any luck, it will be a bitterly frigid day, so that visible columns of steam will be seen dancing toward the heavens.

I will call this masterpiece, "Flag Defecation Ammendment."

[Dangerman]

35. I picked up three American flags lying on the floor at work...

And I threw them in the trash.

My, I might get arrested if I get caught.

(This is not meant as anti-patriotic or un-American. I was just doing my job cleaning the floor.)

It is a shame that BushCo and the GOP use the American flag to cover up their criminal activities.

[Sputnik]

40. Not completely sure of the source

since it's been attributed to different people (even Alan Keyes!) but Molly Ivins said that a former Texas legislator, Craig Washington, said this:

"I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag."

Amen.

[bleedingheart]

41. found it..

Craig Washington

"I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag."
--quoted in Molly Ivins' syndicated newspaper column, June 30, 1997

http://home.pacifier.com/~ascott/they/quotesw.htm

[patricia92243]

43. This sort of silly thing crops up every election cycle - along with ...

Welfare Cadillac mothers, blah, blah, blah.

[bemildred]

44. I think if we're going to worship the flag, then

we're going to have to prohibit government institutions
from displaying the flag, because of the constitutional
separation of church and state. We can't have the government
advocating a particular religion or trying to force it down
the citizens' unwilling throats.

[ParanoidPat]

45. A flag is NOT a 'sacred' object!

Meaning of DESECRATE
Pronunciation: 'desu`kreyt

Definition:

1. remove the consecration from a person or an object
2. violate the sacred character of a place or language; "desecrate a cemetary"; "violate the sanctity of the church"; "profane the name of God"

Meaning of CONSECRATION
Pronunciation: `kânsu'kreyshun

WordNet Dictionary

Definition:

1. sanctification of something by setting it apart (usually with religious rites) as dedicated to God; "the Cardinal attended the consecration of the church"
2. a solemn commitment of your life or your time to some cherished purpose (to a service or a goal); "his consecration to study"


Reading is fundamental, illiteracy is fundamentalist! :evilgrin:

[skygazer]

46. It's a distraction

It comes up with amazing regularity and Congress wastes a ton of time that could have been better spent working on vital issues arguing about it. It's completely political and used by politicians to prove how patriotic they are or how much they back freedom of speech. It's a non issue and a waste of time and taxpayer dollars.

[VOX]

48. We can make flag boxers, t-shirts, ties, bandanas--but don't burn 'em!

This is a load of horseflop. A phony "issue" -- just a meaningless bone to throw to the reactionary right wing, all surface and no real content.

If such a ludicrous amendment wee ever enacted, I'd like to see how "flag" would actually be defined. This will be tough to do.

If you have a pair of American-flag boxer shorts, and you set them aflame (preferable while you're NOT wearing them), would that then constitute flag-burning? And if not, WHY not?