Please help me with my rebutal

[Elbowroom]

a coworker who is hardcore Republican asked me to join his Repub club today and asked me to vote for Bush. I sent him the following email:


"I will vote for Bush if you can tell me how Bush came up with the claim that Saddam was 6 months away from having a nuclear weapon a couple years ago. I will vote for Bush if you can tell me what evidence he has(or Cheney has) that Saddam helped Al Qaeda attack us on 9/11. Until then, I can't help you out. : )


ps- I am an "independent" by the way"


he didn't really answer my questions, but he wrote me this back. it is a bit jumbled/scattered, but I would still like to respond to him. No need for name calling or anything like that, I just want to send him the facts. Please help me if you have some free time. Thanks.

here is his response:


"Iraq had an atomic program.

Isreal took it out with a missle from a F15 12 years ago.

Saddam used weapons of m/d on his own people. And also kicked inspectors out of Iraq.

your good buddy Clinton was givin the same info as Bush and said Saddam was in the process of getting Nuclear Weapons and was a danger to the region. He also lobbed some cruise missles in just for fun.


Bush was told by the Clinton admin tof the danger. The CIA and Brtiish Intel all told Bush the same thing. Pakistan told British Intel that Saddam had bought nuclear components from them and would soon be in opperation.

Kerry 3 yrs ago with the same info Bush had sad Saddam had to be removed. But I guess he changed his mind again. "

[JimmyJazz]

1. wow - where to begin

His response is so full of lies, half truths and plain old ca-ca.

Iraq had an atomic program (perhaps, but it was destroyed in the first Gulf War and no inspectors found any evidence after that).

Can't respond to the Israel thing except to say that if they took it out 12 years ago, it seems to indicate it's been 12 years since he had any.

Mass destruction on his own people: Hey, so did the Shah of Iran (our good friend) and Pinochet (we helped him into power) and many, many other brutal dictators the USA gladly supports or supported. Why this one man? Oh yeah, that's right, he tried to kill Daddy Bush

(Aside: Who was against Nation Building in 2000? - If this doesn't qualify as nation building, nothing does)

Clinton: "Lobbed cruise missels" into Afghanistan after the bombing of the Cole. The US, under the Clinton administration, knew of everything Sadaam was doing as a result of surveillance, inspections, etc. and knew he was under control.

Clinton told Bush about Bin Laden, not Sadaam - Republicans just can't seem to separate the two men

The ultimate Flip-Flop: "We are winning the war on Terror." We cannot win the war on terror." - George Bush

Also: throw this in for good measure: Conscription. We're almost there and they can't blame it on Clinton (although they will try).

Others will probably be alble to respond better than I, but this is a start.

[Elbowroom]

3. thanks for your input

You made some very good points. I really want to provide him with a great deal of information and include the sorces. I will do some research on the things you mentioned when I get home. This is a good start. Thanks.

[shane7726]

4. Bill Clinton also bombed Iraq in 1998

I'm not saying he shouldn't have, but if he is looking for a good rebuttal, we could atleast admit that we bombed Iraq

[JimmyJazz]

6. I do recall that now, but I still think his friend was referring

to the bombing of Afghanistan since many of his other talking points point to Sadaam when he meant Osama Bin Laden.

The expression "lobbed cruise missles" is one chanted by Republicans when speaking of this incident which is why I suspect it was what he meant.

[veteran_for_peace]

2. Here are some facts.

On June 7, 1981 Israeli warplanes struck the Osirak nuclear facility near Baghdad. The president at the time of this attack was Ronald Reagan.

Saddam Hussein did indeed use weapons of mass destruction on the Kurds and on the Iranian people.

Here is a little information on how Saddam acquired those weapons of mass and where they got them from:
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/

[Texasgal]

5. I really hate it when necons say:

That Saddam gassed his own people....

Saddam DID not gas his own people! He gassed the Kurds whos country was KURDISTAN. The kurds fought to keep their little country and Saddam ( the greedy bastard that he is ) gassed them. The Kurds HATE Saddam.... they were never "his" people....NEVER. God, I fucking hate it when freepers can't get it right.

This may not help you at all... I didn't intend to derail this thread, I guess I am just venting. :P

[Elbowroom]

7. no...that is also a good point

the neo-cons make it sound as if Saddam just decided to gas his own people as a hobby and fail to realize he was in a war enviornment. I need to remind my buddy about that.

[JimmyJazz]

9. Excellent point - not a derailment at all

Plus, we are all in need of a bit of venting these days. :)

[CBHagman]

11. Also, the U.S. backed Saddam for a good long time.

It kills me to hear Bush administration officials rant about how Saddam used chemical weapons, given that some of them were in the executive branch when the Reagan administration and the first Bush administration were supporting Iraq. The Reagan administration even managed to play both sides of the Iran-Iraq conflict, sending weapons to both. The media developed collective amnesia for that fact during the Reagan funeral.

[ComerPerro]

8. Even if that were true, just remind him

that Bush was repeatedly warned of the danger of bin Laden and 9/11, but he sure didn't do a damn thing about it

[JimmyJazz]

10. I know this is a bit off point, but doncha just love

seeing Condi Rice squirm when she has to say the title of the memo the White House received in August, 2001. What was that again, Condi? Oh yeah: "Bin Laden Determined to Strike US."

You might want to remind your friend about that one!

[Richardo]

12. Israel bombed an Iraqi nuclear plant in 1981 - that's *23* years ago.

He's a dipshit. Who can't do math.

[Ducks In A Row]

13. tell him clinton isn't running and 12 years ago wasn't on bush's watch

tell him that if all he has is bullshit, he's an idiot for voting for bush.

tell him if he's happy to vote for a man who deserted 30 years ago, and just sat with his thumb up his ass 3 years ago, then he's worse than a fool. He's a traitor to this country.

oh and tell him to cheney himself.

[Czolgosz]

14. I love an easy argument to refute

Add to what you already have:

He says Saddam "kicked inspectors out of Iraq." Well, Saddam also let the the inspectors back in. The inspectors pleaded for more time to complete their inspections because they couldn't find and WMDs before Bush invaded. Bush invaded before the inspectors finished their job.

Ask your guy what was wrong with the Yugoslavian or Afghani models for dealing with the trouble in Iraq. We managed to topple the harmful governments in Yugoslavia and Afghanistan without the huge loss of American lives we're seeing in Iraq. What's the difference? First, Bush violated the trust he was authorized with when he went into Iraq without first building an effective coalition so Iraq is a 90% American action without significant contribution in finances or troops from other nations (who shared the load in both Afghanistan and Yugoslavia). Second, Bush wanted to swerve the Iraqi oil contracts to US companies and toppling Saddam with an assault like we used in Afghanistan or Yugoslavia would not have brought about that goal.

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

15. This link, if your coworker has internet, blasts his argument to pieces

http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/powell-no-wmd.htm

It even has video of Rice and Powell saying Iraq was no threat to anyone.