Childless/Child-Free DUers-Ever had a * Supporter tell you...

[XanaDUer]

that your support of * would be "different if you had kids"?

I just had someone tell me this, and I was momentarily speechless, which is odd for me.

[eyesroll]

1. There was an ad for one of the pukes taking on Feingold

and he implied that Feingold was making the wrong decisions because he didn't have a dozen grandchildren around him at all times (or something along those lines).

[ET Awful]

2. Of course it would be different, I'd oppose him even MORE for

putting my child's life at risk every day.

[XanaDUer]

5. I was so nonplussed by this

remark (I am attempting to take a reasonable-but-blindly-led relative away from the Dark Side) why supporting * is NOT good for anyone, child or adult.

I have to admit, this one stumped me.

I am going to think about it and then e-mail him later.

All suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

[Xipe Totec]

15. This is called a thought terminating cliche

Its an effective rhetorical device because you have to be smart enough to recognize the contradiction. Then your brain jams trying to grasp the absurdity of the statement.

Most Republicans have developed an immunity through selective inbreeding.

[smirkymonkey]

67. If he thinks his children's world will be safer and

more habitable under Bush, he obviously isn't paying attention.

The exact opposite is true.

[SharonAnn]

71. Maybe not but you're glad his children will pay off the national debt

that * is incurring. Even their grandchildren can work on it.

Heck, if it gets much bigger, ALL of his progeny until the end of time can work to pay it off.

[fudge stripe cookays]

21. Bingo! We have a winner!

Good going, ET.

FSC :-)

[movonne]

3. Yes, I see they only care about their children and no one else's.

Does that not sound like a repug.

[Ellen Forradalom]

4. That is a truly weird statement

considering that Bush will be handing my son and his generation a legacy of debt, insecurity and violence. It will be a diminished nation they inherit.

[XanaDUer]

Well, I think I am going to broach those topics later

I did say that I have concern for all children, even tho' I don't have any of my own.

[immoderate]

62. You could say that when you think of having children...

...you have to practice apologizing to them for the world that Bush has given them.

--IMM

[DebJ]

6. Good grief! I sell Kerry and voting registration by pointing

to people's children and telling them that THIS is the reason you MUST vote, for social security, for education, for jobs, for a future.

[skygazer]

7. How bizarre

I have three grown kids and three grandkids. My concern for my childrens' futures is one of the main reasons I'm against Bush. I don't want them inheriting a country that has been stripped of its natural resources, torn by needless war and bankrupted financially.

[XanaDUer]

10. That is a bizarre thing to say

Very bizarre. I don't want to alienate him, because I want as many people as possible to NOT support El Chimpo.

[VOX]

8. Since * would be leaving these hypothetical children behind...

I'd be even **more** pissed off at him than I am now, which would be hard to do. :grr:

[wildeyed]

9. As a child encumbered DU'er,

I can honestly tell you that the * supporters are full of shit.

[XanaDUer]

14. I think I rocked his world a little bit

I keep hammering home that * went after people who had NOTHING to do with 9/11.

I feel that I am treading on thin ice, like I said, I would like to approach it in a way that is non-threatening and maybe open up some minds about the whole thing.

He lives in NYC so he was very very impacted by 9/11.

[IdaBriggs]

24. Have him watch the video of Wrong Way on 9/11.

If he cares about children, he should watch how the Evil One interacted with the children during those seven minutes. Then remind him this guy has his finger on the button of our nuclear arsenal.

Then ask him how he feels about his children being in danger of e-coli and lysteria every time they eat a HAMBURGER because of problems associated with meat tainted with fecal matter because Wrong Way has been dismantling the protections the USDA meat inspectors used to have. (Meat packing companies gave $59 million so fecal matter could become an issue of "how much" instead of "any" before determining whether it had to be cleaned up; I spent three months sitting in a hospital next to a six year old, three weeks of that while she was in intensive care on "the last chance respirator" wondering if she was going to die because of e-coli -- don't tell ME this SOB is good for kids!)

Ask him how he feels about childhood diabetes, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, or a host of other problems that could be cured with scientific research that is being stifled because of Wrong Way's religious issues.

Ask him how he felt about 9/11 knowing it could have been prevented, but there were "other priorities" such that Cheney couldn't convene anti-terrorism task force meetings, Wrong Way and his crew were on vacation when the "Bin Ladin determined to strike" memo was delivered, and the budget for the anti-terrorism folks was being SLASHED on September 10. Ask him if his children would have been better off if 9/11 HADN'T HAPPENED, if, you know, the GUY HAD BEEN DOING HIS JOB.

Make it personal, because IT IS PERSONAL.

[wildeyed]

35. IdaBriggs, I am sorry to hear your daughter was so sick.

It must have been awful to have to go through that. How is she doing now?

[IdaBriggs]

55. She's my niece, actually. (1 of 14)

We celebrated her sixth birthday in the hospital. Her mother was there nearly 24/7 despite being pregnant at the time. After the first couple of weeks of daily one hour drives, my husband and I alternated visiting days for the last couple of months. Intensive care was the worst. She's doing well now (several years later) other than some long term ongoing kidney damage which we're hoping she'll outgrow (blood pressure meds and monitoring), but its not something I'll EVER forget. I take meat safety EXTREMELY SERIOUSLY and what's been happening to the meat inspectors makes me feel ill! Thank you for asking! :)

[XanaDUer]

39. The title is "Wrong Way on 9/11"?

I am not sure he is ready for that level yet. I am still trying to convince him that * is doing not only a piss-poor job re terrorism, but I may get him to the point of watching something that refutes the idea that * is doing a good job.

Then , of course, the old "But Saddam was a bad guy" argument came up , and I *agreed*, he *was* a bad guy. And then why he was bad, but then I came back to why that still has nothing to do with 9/11.


PS-yes, that is so horrible. I could use the meat angle. I am so sorry for your daughter. Strange thing is, we are all probably in much more danger from tainted meat than being killed by a terrorist.

[IdaBriggs]

57. Sorry for the delay in responding!

I refer to * as "Wrong Way" -- its my little protest on him! And it was my niece (Tiffany) who was hospitalized; I can't believe how close we came to losing her! Thank all that is good she survived it with only long term kidney damage -- its terrifying how you learn to be grateful for such things when you are praying over a small child on a respirator daily for three weeks. (My husband and I did daily visits for the first several weeks, had a bit of a "break" when they thought she was going to die (!), then did some "alternating days" visits for a bit, intermixed with daily while she was on the respirator due to the hour plus drive back and forth to the hospital. My sister was pregnant with my nephew at the time, yet still there 24/7.)

You can find out more details about what Wrong Way has done with the meat inspectors in Molly Ivins' book "Bushwhacked." WARNING: You may never eat meat again!!!

Good luck!

[XanaDUer]

69. I read that

I love Molly. She kicks butt.

Thanks!

[wildeyed]

40. I think you are right to approach him in a non-threatening way.

He is clearly very afraid and is letting the fear rule his decisions making process.

I would start by asking him why he feels that Bush is better for children. Since that is obviously incorrect, go from there.

Sounds like you have a good start already if he accepts that Iraqis had nothing to do with 9/11.

Now all you have to do is point out the myriad of ways that Bush has harmed our children. The debt, increase in the number of children living in poverty, relaxed mercury emissions standards (especially harmful to fetus's and small children's developing neurological systems), underfunding 'no child left behind'. Gosh the list goes on and on.

[XanaDUer]

44. Right. I want as many people on our side as possible

I live in Freeper Land, and many here are hopeless. I attempt to sway them, and I don't always do so, but I hope to not alienate anyone if I can. Of course, I can get nasty with a total neanderthal, which is no loss.

I think he is very afraid. He had to deal with a lot of families whose loved ones died on 9/11, so he may actually be suffering from some type of post traumatic stress syndrome. So I don't want to make it worse, but he has always seemed a reasonable person. He will listen, and is respectful.

[GodHelpUsAll2]

61. I am a single parent with children

A list of 10 things W has done for me and my children since taking office.

1. Mom lost her job

2. Mommy lost their health insurance also.

3. Mommy's taxes and insurance on our home have gotten to the point where mommy can barely afford the house they live in.

4. My 7th grader was called to the auditorium of his school to listen to the superintendent explain to them how the school was broke and didn't have money to buy books. (Lasting effects on the Texas schools from W's time as governor compounded by his White House residency)

5. Mommy got a 400.00 check because of W's tax cuts (which was desperately needed to pay the rent).

6. Mommy filed her taxes and owed the IRS money for he first time in her life BECAUSE of that 400.00 check

7. But that's OK because Mommy gets to keep more of her paycheck now because of the tax cuts. Ladies and gentlemen I hope you are sitting down for this figure. When I still had a job, I got an extra 3.13 a month on my paycheck. We began fine dining out with that.

8. Mommy found another job because the job market is picking up. Mommy only had to take a 700.00 a month cut in pay.

9. Mommy's new job doesn't have health insurance.

10. The small 401K mom had has completely tanked and there is virtually NOTHING left.

And the list goes on and on and on...............

[smirkymonkey]

65. I live in NYC and so do millions of others who

were greatly impacted by 9/11.

An overwhelming majority of us despise Bush* and would vote for a knish before we'd vote for him.

[Nikia]

11. How are Bush supporters thinking of their children?

Bush policies seem to be against a bright future. They seem to be about him and big business making as much money as possible without consideration of the long term implications on the environment and on American society. He seems concerned only about things that will happen in his lifetime. If it were otherwise, he would have done almost everything differently.

[XanaDUer]

17. Well, I asked him that

it is almost like he has some sort of knee-jerk answer. THen he said soemthing about eradicating all terrorists, and I asked how does the US eradicate millions of people? And, does that not open up a whole other moral question?

Genocide?

I also pointed out that Clinton did get the people of the 1st 9/qq attack in 1993, I think.

[faithnotgreed]

12. i would ask what made him say that. its pretty evident

from any vantage point (education, draft, war, deficit, health care, fill in the blank) that theres no reason to vote bush. especially if you have children

so i would want to know what he was speaking of when he made that statement.

[REVOLT823]

13. I have an eight year old son, making my voting decision

based upon my looking out for him, I would still vote against Shrub because I don't want him drafted in 10 years to fight for oil. They are already talking about Iraq taking another 5-10 years to clean up, if Shrub stays in office and takes on NK, Iran, Syria, etc, this will not be coming to an end anytime soon. My son will be sent out of the country if there is a draft when he turns 18, luckily he has dual citizenship. Having served 6 years in the Marine Corps, I have no qualms about helping my son evade the draft under the present circumstances. That is a bullshit argument, having children should should be a stronger argument for driving Bush from power.

[JimmyJazz]

26. I couldn't agree more.

The fact that I have children makes it all the more imperative to me to get that man out of office. I never heard a more ludicrous argument. Oh wait, yes I did: "Kerry has a horse face." Yes, it's true, that's the argument I heard. I got tell you all, I was almost swayed to the other side by that one....

[wildeyed]

42. Well that, and he looks French too.

;)

[JimmyJazz]

47. stop, stop - you'e twisting my arm....

:)

[JohnKleeb]

16. Well would you like my insight I am in between heh

-Bush has rose college tuition prices, what parent would want that and more importantly what student wants that, thats why I like Kerry-Edwards' education plan, if you work hard, you dont have to pay for at least a year or two of school, and that means so much to me personally.
-Bush will have tons of wars that will risk getting young people killed, do their parents want that?
If anything, parents especially parents of older teens should be anti Bush, I thank god that my parents have common sense.

[XanaDUer]

32. Money is not really a problem in this case

(I'm back from the store)

I am trying to approach this from the two angles he seems most concerned about:

1. Another terrorist attack.
2.Protecting his children. He also feels that, if given another four years, * will somehow "neutralize" terrorism.

Which is absurd, of course. I think I can take him on about that.

It was the child thing that threw me.

[JohnKleeb]

34. The thing is if another terror attack happened

That means it would have happened on Bush's watch, now would you really want that man watching over you again, I dont think so. Hell I fear for my safety under Bush, I am afraid of getting drafted but as Ive said, I might do my duty but try like hell to get a non combat role.

[XanaDUer]

His concern about terrorism seems a little on the paranoid side

then again, my family is from NYC and they were there.

I think I will also say that Firefighters (he works with a lot of firemen) do not support * because etc. and then name all the reasons why they don't.

I think that will grab his attention.

He also said, that * is "doing an admirable job" so far re the war and terrorism, and I told him today that there is NO connectiong between Hussein, 9/11...all the stuff we discuss here on DU all the time.

I figured, since he is so paranoid about terrorism, telling him that the actual terrorists are still loose is another good attention-getting device.

[JohnKleeb]

38. Yeah thats right

Yeah, I know why the firefighters wont support Bush, he gutted their supplies. Remember to remind him that 75% of those hijackers were Saudis and that Bush's family is very Saudi Royal friendly.

[tanyev]

18. George Bush and what he's doing to this world

are one of the reasons hubby and I have decided not to have kids.

[Retrograde]

19. if I had kids

I'd be boiling the tar and plucking the chickens while looking around for a rail....

As a childless, moderately well-off retiree I'm actually one of the people Bush's policies seem to designed for - and I still think he's the worst president this country has ever had.

[Retrograde]

20. if I had kids

I'd be boiling the tar and plucking the chickens while looking around for a rail....

As a childless, moderately well-off retiree I'm actually one of the people Bush's policies seem to designed for - and I still think he's the worst president this country has ever had.

[gollygee]

22. Having kids certainly does change your perspective (m)

Four years ago, I didn't have any kids and wasn't that political.

This time, I have one and am donating money to a political campaign for the first time in my life and I'm volunteering as well. I'm doing everything in my power to get * out of office. I was pretty apathetic before. But that's just my personality - it took having a child for me to really hate Bush.

[CBHagman]

23. Why? Because they'll get the bill for Iraq?

Seriously, I joke with a co-worker about how his teenaged daughter is going to pay for the current administration. I don't know how my co-worker will vote, but I know he doesn't have some fairy tale view of the Bush policies.

The deficits alone are going to cause enough trouble for the current adult population, let alone the next generations, unless action is taken. God knows Bush won't lift a finger to change things; he'll just run up the bills and leave the country with the pain. It's not as though he's ever going to have to really apply for a job, unlike the rest of us.

And the fact that anti-Americanism is rising in the rest of the world should not make any parent sleep well at night. This goes double for those who have kids who might enlist or be drafted.

[neuvocat]

25. I suppose you would hate Bush even more than you do now.

So in a manner of speaking, they are correct.

[baldguy]

27. Yeah, my kids won't be paying off duhbya's debt.

They won't be dying in his wars. They won't be fixing his mistakes.

[liberalitch]

28. I was raised THIS WAY.... why shouldn't my kids be?

If'n I had any...

[mr_du04]

29. I have kids

and I support Kerry 100% I'm just glad that they are too young to get drafted if bunnypants manages to steal another election.

[Vickers]

30. I have 4 kids, and I'd sooner have one of *them* as President rather than

Georgie.

And the oldest one is 9! Dang, she's about 3 times as smart as that dimwit is.

[NoBorders]

31. um, I have recently had 2 children

and feel far more stronly than ever about getting him out of office, for the sake of their futures: affordable college, clean environment, civil rights, etc... Oh, and I don't want them fighting in the middle east 16 years from now!

[kayell]

33. As a DUer who raised a child, it made me that much more supportive of Dems

The repukes are definitely not good for children or other living things.

What a bizarre comment.

[dmr]

36. You know, it sounds more like a dig at you for being childless

there are some real insensitive fools out there.

Sounds like she is negating your views since you do not have children. Your views don't matter. You have nothing invested in the future. Does she believe the primary role of woman is to procreate?

Nonsense!

I've experienced something like this many times before I had my son 15 years ago when I was 37.

Only a mother ignorant of Bush's* policies would vote that man in office again. I am scared to death of a Bush* win or theft of the White House. I don't want Bush* to send my son off to war as he tries to take over the world's oil and natural gas; nor do I want my son and his future children to have to live in the world Bush* is destroying in so many ways.

[XanaDUer]

41. Yeah, like the childless are somehow blindly staggering around,

making bad and dangerous decisions about presidential leadership in times of peril.

He is male, though. I don't think it was a dig, he also worries about "friends and loved ones" dying from "dirty bombs".

I could tell him that, since * gutted first responders, there is a much better chance of friends and loved ones dying from dirty bombs.
Tonight I am going to do some research and see what I can come up with.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

37. I fail to understand this, unless they're thinking on one of two lines:

1) The Republicans will create a Puritanical moral climate so that my kids will never even know anyone who uses drugs and will be virgins until marriage, or maybe even after.

2) I want my tax cut because the kids need a new XBox.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

51. This is how they think

also..
3) My husband is in the military and the president is his boss, therefore we blindly support whoever happens to be president. At least Bush doesn't cheat on his wife, like Clinton did. Plus, isn't great all that (supposedly) extra money back Bush gave us on tax returns? We could certainly use that money to to buy our rugrat more Disney DVDs or to decorate their room in with a little nemo motif.

I met a woman through a local mom's group that seemed real nice, and I would visit her from time to time. One day she revealed to me her thoughts about our current president. They basically boiled down to reason number 3 that I listed above. I haven't communicated with this women since then.

[Carla in Ca]

43. Childless by choice

When Keyes spoke last week on Mary Cheney's lifestyle being one of the reasons the 'family' is in great peril, my husband of 27 years turned to me and said "Gee, maybe we should just kill ourselves right now!". We had a good laugh, we have heard it all before.

Conservatives aren't happy until you think as they do, that is their real agenda. I could never be like that.

[Lisa]

45. as a childless person who just forked over 2 weeks salary ...

... to help buy school supplies for 50 needy kids who've been "left behind" by cruel neo-con economic policies -- I would laugh in the face of anyone who said that to me.

If I had kids of my own, I'd probably be even MORE worried about the way things are going. The newly-hatched baby chicks I've been fussing over this week won't be sent off to Iraq in a draft, for one thing!

[Piperay]

46. Yeah, my cousin

said that to me when I talked about the disastrous environmental policies of bushco :wtf: !!! JESUS H. CHRIST she is the one with kids, I don't have to care but she has the gall to tell me that if I had kids I would think different!?!?! :wtf: I think she is to stupid raise her own kids!!!!! :mad:

I'm so glad I don't have kids, if I did I would be sick, just sick at what is happening here. I would be afraid everyday for their future. :cry:

[Cleita]

48. I have noticed that some women are saying that even though

health care and other issues are important, and they think Kerry would be better than Bush on them, right now they have to vote for Bush because of their children and that he is much better on security and safety from terrorists. :wow: I have not heard anyone on the librul media expounding on this more than other issues, so I have to assume that they must be getting this in church. Since I don't go to church, I wouldn't know for sure. Any of your churchgoers out there think you are being proselytized by your pastor and/or fellow church goers to vote for Bush because he is better on security?

[Missy Vixen]

49. I haven't heard that one yet

>that your support of * would be "different if you had kids"?<

I was told last week, however, that I don't know what "real love is" because I have no children. Gosh. How thoughtful.

I think you must be a nice person, Liberty Chick, because the woman who said the above to me was not especially happy with my response. I shot back, "I'm so glad you clarified that for me. In other words, my relationship with my husband means nothing because I don't have kids. I can't possibly love our family and friends because, again, I have no kids. What about those who have kids and abuse them? Is their love of better quality than mine?"

I'd ask the holier-than-thou if they realize that George W. Bush has done less than nothing for the children of this country, especially the children of the underprivileged, and he works daily to dismantle any help for those kids.

I guess if I were in your shoes, I also would have made a very pointed comment about the fact that those parents who support * don't seem to be able to think without assistance, but again, I'll bet you're too nice to do this.

Julie

[XanaDUer]

50. LOL! Well, this is a male relative

who lives in the city and in a professional capacity, had to do a lot of financial stuff for a lot of loved ones of the 9/11 victims.

So, I did not answer sharply back because:

1. It honestly stopped me in my tracks and I had to digest that concept mentally, for a while.
2. This is a reasonable-but-post-9/11-stressed-relative I am attempting to lead to reason who seems a little too paranoid about terrorist attacks, maybe with good reason.
3. I don't think he meant it as a nasty crack.

However, "not knowing true love" LOL! I think I would have shish-ke-bobbed that woman. That is really stupid, yet funny, in a twisted way.


I'm going to keep leading with honey on this one, since I think he can be brought over to The Force from the Dark Side.

[bleedingheart]

52. That is so stupid.. I have kids and I don't support him...

in fact it is because of my kids that I am frightened of *...
I worry for my kid's future.

On the other hand I think that many childless DUers have a host of things to dislike * over....

[RobinA]

53. No, But I Dare

someone to try. That's when I ask them why they want their son drafted and their daughter dead from a back alley abortion. That shouldn't piss'em off too much

[LibertyLover]

54. Voting Bush if you have children

My husband and I are voting for Kerry/Edwards BECAUSE we have children (well, ok, only one child). If a Republican said that to me I'm not sure if I would laugh first then slap them upside their head or vice versa.

[Zomby Woof]

56. nope, not yet

Then again, freepers fear me. :D

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

58. Very stupid remark period on top of being insensitive. What if one

could not have children (another topic altogether)? My husband and I have been married almost seven years (I'm 34) and we don't have kids (by choice). We probably won't, but we still have a little time. I hate it when people ask if we have kids, plan to have kids or why we don't? Um, none of your business. Plus, how do they not know if we can't? Sorry, but a pet peeve of mine (ya think?! LOL!). People are so damn nosey.

[Zomby Woof]

60. I take it

That you didn't mean to reply to me... lol.

[leesa]

59. I would think if you had kids and you cared about them the least little

bit you would run screaming from Republican policies. They are ant-child, anti-future.
When I see all these big SUVs and big trucks driving around, I can only think of how little these people must care about their children's welfare.

[NEDem]

63. I have a 3 year old

and I am concerned about what kind of world Bush has created and would continue to create for him. I'm supporting John Kerry so my child can live in the same kind of world I grew up in. I believe that with a strong leader peace can be achieved. So I guess things are a bit different for me since I have a kid. I hate * even more than I would without kids.

[restorefreedom]

64. yeah right - because Shrub is doing SUCH a good job

of making sure they have food, health care and educations

[ogsball]

66. I can't figure out why someone with kids would vote for *

So * could send them off to war?
So that he could leave them with a mountain of public debt?
So that my child could be fighting the war on terror in his or her old age?
So that my child could live without Social Security because * bankrupted it?
So that my child could try to live without access to affordable health care?
So that if my child is gay he or she might feel alienated?
So that if my child comes down with Parkinson's there won't be a cure because research has been curtailed?
So that my child can grow up in a warmer world where most of the coastal cities are under water?
So that my child can live in a world filled with assalt weapons.
<I could go on forever>

I have children--lots of them--and it's made me more of a democrat.

[smirkymonkey]

68. Please do go on forever, your list was a good start

and it would be great to have an aresenal of WHY Bush is bad for children to have at your fingertips for future arguments with pro-Bush parents.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[XanaDUer]

70. Yeah, that's good!

Thanks.

[Justitia]

72. Uh, I have a 21 yr old son I don't want killed in Bush's Iraqnam adventure

What a boob.

Obviously the idiot that said that to you doesn't think that either 1. kids grow up to be draft age
or
2. voting for Bush insures perpetual war requiring perpetual child sacrifices

Again, what a brainless boob.

[DemBones DemBones]

73. With Bush* in office, I've been thankful NOT to have grandchildren.

I worry about whether my daughter will live to be my age, given the new state of things. I never used to worry about that.

Life was normal until Bush* TOOK office and I could never have imagined how much damage he'd do.

He's tanked the economy, mired us in wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (and has made rumblings about Iran, Syria, North Korea.)

Domestically, he's cut taxes on the very rich and corporations, and cut spending for many programs, including ones he purports to support, such as Reading Is Fundamental. He hasn't fully funded the No Child Left Behind Act and his administration just announced that Medicare recipients will be paying 17% more for their premiums in January 2005. It's extremely unlikely Social Security will be raised 17% of offset that increased expense, so the elderly and the disabled, two groups dependent on Social Security and Medicare will be harmed while the fat cats get richer and richer.

He has caused a sharp rise in anti-Americanism around the world, particularly in Arab and Islamic countries, which already had some problems with us because of our unquestioning support of Israel and tolerance of its crimes against Palestinians, and the presence of American troops in Saudi Arabia.

The worst of it is that his actions affect the whole world so leaving the US would not necessarily make any of us safer.

How would ANY of this help families with young children at home?

LibertyChick, it's true that having kids changes your perspectives on some things but it only turns you into a freeper if you were a latent RWer all along. This is just one of the GOP's bullshit talking points. Illegitimi non carborundum!

[ComerPerro]

74. Just tell them "And if you had a brain, you wouldn't support Bush"

[REP]

75. One of The Few Things I Haven't Heard

I am childfree, and I thought I'd heard everything, but I guess I was wrong!

Real men don't hide behind their children when making weak political arguments.