Healthcare: Universal Vs Private

[kerrywins]

People say you have to wait and such in countries with Universal Healthcare...well, I have news for you....you have to wait here in America as well.
Also, our emergency rooms fill up....in some part due to people who can't afford healthcare...and then need urgent healthcare and goto the hospitals because they know they can't turn them down if they need emergency care.
But if these people had free healthcare to begin with...they wouldn't need to wait until it became an emergency.
Paitents in America have to wait and such too...so those who think its some how magically better to have private healthcare...I think you couldn't be more wrong.

[Joylaughter]

1. Healthcare is a right

It is part of the "social contract". Don't tell me I should pledge allegience and then abandon me when I'm sick.

[wildeyed]

2. My sis lives in Australia.

They have universal healthcare. Her father-in-law is being treated for skin cancer by one of the best doctors in the country right now. Doubt an uninsured retired manual laborer would get that level of care in the US right now.

Sure there are some problems with the universal, but worse than what we have here? I doubt it.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

3. People opposed to universal healthcare fall into 2 categories:

1) Greedy insurance company exec.
2) Someone without any concept of people having needs.

My girlfriend told me a perfect story as an example last night. Her grandfather is a staunch Republican, believes in "personal responsibility", yadda, yadda. He founded a hospital where he lives, and when it came time, the hospital decided it was going to undergo about $10 million worth of renovation. Instead, her grandfather fought tooth and nail to have that money instead go to the nurses and hospital staff because he felt like they weren't being paid enough. So, you might ask yourself: why would a Republican care that much about these little people, but not every other person in the world? Because these are the only people he's got any connection to or understanding of. He encountered them every day and saw first hand their struggles. Living out in the country, he didn't see how hard it is for the average guy to make a living. He never encountered one. And that, in a nutshell, is why urbanites tend to be overwhelmingly Democrats and why country folk are overwhelmingly Republicans.

[Kanary]

7. One more category:

Those who believe the RW propaganda being spread about how bad it is in all these other countries.

If it was truly "that bad", the people in those countries would rise up and demand *our* system. That is not the case...... over and over, people in other countries express amazement that the US doesn't demand a reasonable system. Canadians have been having political efforts to change their system to what USians have, and have repelled these attempts.

That should say something. :)

So, those who are buying the "misinformation" are another category of ........ignorance.........

Kanary

[SheilaT]

4. Another aspect

of the stories about people in other countries having to wait for health care, is that they almost invariably refer to long waits for elective procedures.

[nedlogg]

5. My Canadian Experience . . .

A while ago, my wifw and I were hiking in woods on Cape Breton Island. I stepped in a hole and twisted my ankle. When down like a ton of bricks and heard a snapping sound like a branch breaking. I didn't think it was broken at the time. I managed to limp out of the woods and get back in the car. By the time we got to our next destination (Prince Edward Island), my left leg from the knee down had swollen to at least three times it's normal size and took on a strange multi-colored appearance. We took off for the nearest hospital. I was almost immediately tended to by two nurses, got x-rayed, saw a doctor, and had a cast put on. On the way out, they gave me a set of crutches, which they requested I turn at the airport upon my departure. They also gave me something for the pain. I got a bill for $125.00 which they apologized for but since I was an alien, I wasn't covered for medical emergencies.

So my question is, if they can have it there, why can't we have it here?

[Ravenseye]

6. Because...

...the insurance companies gives mainly republicans, but plenty of democrats too, tons of money to make sure it doesn't happen. It's a huge multi-billion dollar industry and it is not in their interests to make universal health care happen.

[Kanary]

8. So, that means it's up to US to make sure it happens!

We're going to have to realize that we can't wait for the politicians, no matter how much we may like individual ones, to support true Universal care. That is OUR job.

First of all, educate yourself about all aspects of proposals. A good start would be on Dennis Kucinich's website, kucinich.us, and find out what is entailed in these proposals.

Second, join any local organizations that may exist for lobbying for Universal care.

Third, start talking about it among those you know. Print up information about it, and leave it at any place where people mayb e reading anything they can get their hands on......... drs offices, for example. ^_^

Peridically call your reps and remind them you are expecting them to take action on this important matter, and why it needs to be UNIVERSAL care, and not just a bandaid on the corporations programs we have.

It's up to US.

Kanary

[Fovea]

9. Exactly.

I am too sick to be able to afford health insurance.
I will probably die for someone else's profit, waiting to see if this angina is a fatal heart attack. The idea upsets me a bit, as you might imagine.


But who am I? Just an American Citizen, which means squat if my right to life is not currently being excercized from my mother's womb.

[kerrywins]

11. exactly...

in many ways...Universal Healthcare is WAY BETTER than private healthcare.

[Solon]

10. It never really made sence to me either...

I have a friend who has non-cancerous tumors in her abdomen. They are so painful that she has to take morphin, even though it is addictive. She already, four years ago, had them taken out, but they came back. Guess how long its taking her to have surgery again? Over two years now, and she is in so much pain she could barely work. The reason for the wait is that her insurance carrier refuses to pay for any more surgery, and refused to pay her last bill.

Because of this snafu, no hospital in the area will even allow her to have an X ray done until she pays the $120,000 bill. This seems to me to be much worst than waiting periods for those in UHC countries. At least in Canada or Europe you know you are going to be treated in the future, here you may just sooner die in the street.

[Solon]

12. On a personal note...

I started a new job in January of this year, then one morning I wake up to an excusiating pain in my left shoulder, about two weeks into the job. It is a manual labor job so I couldn't work that day, I went to the doctor, even though I didn't have insurance, I'm glad my parents were able to pay some of it. After over 500 dollars just looking at it, I find out I have a pinched nerve in the shoulder. Doc recommends Physical Therapy, and I was able to afford a grand total of 4 sessions at 100 bucks a pop, then I ran out of money. By February, I lost the job, to this day I have constant pain in my shoulder, and I cannot work at 90% of the jobs in my area, and the other 10% aren't hiring.

Thanks to this, I have been unemployed for 9 months, I may require a surgery I can't afford, and to add insult to injury, I'm forced to live at home with my parents. It sucks, I am 26 years old and living with my parents. I'm technically disabled, I guess, but don't qualify for diability benefits, I don't think. I try to apply for jobs, but they show me the door as soon as they see how I hold the arm. This plus my pinky and ring fingers feel like they are asleep ALL THE DAMNED TIME.

[Kanary]

13. This is criminal for the richest country in the world to be treating

it's citizens in this way!

One note......... that numb feeling in your fingers is SERIOUS. That means the nerve is in very bad shape, and you may possibly end up paralyzed if you don't get that taken care of. I know that's not what you want to hear, and that I'm adding anxiety to an already bad situation, but I wanted you to be aware of that.

You may have to start rattling some cages in a big way.

Sorry..... you really don't deserve this, and I'm angry on your behalf.

:nuke:

Kanary

[Solon]

15. Thanks, I guess...

But then again, I can't afford to have it looked at again. They aren't numb per se, just have the pins and needles feeling all the time, though, since I'm used to it, it doesn't feel as bad as lets say, my leg falling asleep.

ON EDIT: Is there any country in the world with UHC, that has a medical refugee status that I could apply too? I would be happy to be a productive citizen of another country, higher taxes and all, if I can get rid of the "I'm useless" feeling by being able to have my problem properly looked at and treated.

[Kanary]

16. "Pins and needles" qualify as numbness.......

I wish I had an answer for you about other countries. I think they are expecting us to fight our own batles with our rotten system.

It might be worth posting in the other countries forums, to see if anyone has an answer for you.

I, also, would choose to be a "refugee" if I could. Seeking refuge from this ugly mess is exactly what I wish to do. It's something I have proposed.

Kanary

[nedlogg]

14. The Preamble to the Constitution

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

I would think that promoting the general welfare would include healthcare.

[Kanary]

17. Of course it does.

As in other matters, we have to come together and fight for our constitutional rights.

Kanary

[sweetheart]

18. military health care

It strikes me that if america is attacked with bioweapons, like say
anthrax or modified smallpox, there will be an immediate need to
vaccinate 100% of the population to prevent the spread of disease.
On the same tune then, why not offer all american residents
rudimentary clinics for public medicine where all non-hospital
afflictions can be seen and treated by a public doctor. It is
sorta universal healthcare through the back door of national security. Offering all americans vaccinations and checkups would
at least begin the process of extending health coverage to 100% of
the people.

My heart goes out to salon and the pinched nerve. I had severe
athsma and until i left the USA, never got proper treatment for it.
Now, with subsidized medication, i am not impaired by the disease.

However, the general standard of care in a public system is always
confronted by the resource limitations of the public purse. Then
why does not the public offer 100% comprehensive medical insurance
to all residents, and let the private sector provide the basic care.
Is that what you call "universal" or do you mean that there should
be a nationwide federal health service?

That aside, i am also for a nationwide website offering subsidized
medication at say 10 bucks per perscription... flat rate. Then the
citizens are not put out by profiteering drugs firms, or if they
want to get big greedy subsidies, they can get them straight from
the republican bankrupt purse, rather than from elderly and
sick people.

[UdoKier]

19. Actually you have to wait a lot longer here, even with an appointment.

When we lived in Japan, there was almost no wait when you had an appointment, and a reasonable wait if you were a walk-in. The co-pays were next to noting and the monthly premium was about 15% of what we would pay here if we could affford my company's insurance "benefit" (I pay 50% of my premium and 100% of the rest of the family.)

Almost everybody in the US is on an HMO plan, which has horrrible service compared to ANY country's ntional or singel-payer plan.