How "Over-the-Top" are you?

[hyphenate]

On another board, I've been called "reactionary" and "vitriolic" in my "discussions" about the idiot in charge. I suppose some of the charges are true, but when I talk about how awful our government is right now, and how it's been a major contributor to all the world's ailments right now, I don't think I'm that "over-the-top" at all.

My life was relatively decent until September, 2001. I was working temps, had a decent paying assignment, and I liked the people I worked with. After 9/11, though, I suddenly found myself unemployed, and without any new jobs coming in.

I've explained in some postings that I blame most of this on the evil regime in power, and that once these bastards are out of power, things will slowly creep back to some semblance of reality. I've been told that I can't really blame all of the world's ills on GWB and this administration, that bad luck and tragedy is cyclical, and that things will eventually pick up even if the asshole is re-elected.

SO--am I alone in thinking that this crap we've lived with since the election in 2000 is all this administration's fault? How many believe it's truly cyclical, and that things can only get better? How many others think that we've entered a doomsday phase by having this meglomaniac as president? How many believe that there is any true good in this man? Am I truly being "extreme" to the point of getting carried away with my hatred of the right? I'd like to hear how "reactionary" or "extreme" others are in their opinions of this group in charge.

Will some of the world's ills be cured if someone other than the boy king is in the White House? How so? Or is this thing just bigger than even the asshole in the white house, and will not likely find a solution for years to come?

[bemildred]

1. It's funny how "thinking outside the box" suddenly becomes a bad thing,

when it comes to politics, eh? Whenever they start calling you
names because of what you said, it's a dead giveaway that you are
getting close to the truth.

[Selwynn]

17. Well, we call people we don't agree with names all the time...

..I don't think that means they are close to any truth..

[bemildred]

20. Sure, but in a "discussion", when someone responds to what

I say with bullshit and (more or less) subtle name calling
I figure they had nothing better. When they have facts, you
get facts. Of course a lot of people get confused about what
is a fact and what is not too ...

[laruemtt]

2. i don't consider myself "over the top"

but a lot of others think i am. i am realistic. i've believed for a long time we're on a suicide course as a race. i could enumerate here all the factors in place that have lead me to this belief. i think it all stems from a laziness in thinking that has allowed such an idiot to get so much power. the power system stinks to high heaven and i really don't see how we'll ever dismantle it. i'm leaving it to mother nature to do what's necessary, even if that means exterminating our species. hope not, but.....

[Zensea]

3. I think it's more complex than just Bush

The world's ills are not a result of one man. They didn't just materialize with him.
Of course you already know that.

As to the specific ills he's created, even there I think it's important to not focus too much on a single individual. The reason I have for saying this, is that I think doing so runs a risk of something I don't know what to call, but that I can think of an example of very easily.
This---
If I based my vote on the type of thing you bring up initially as how you are framing your choice of vote, then I would have to vote for Bush. For the second half of Clinton's administration I was in NYC almost starving to death, almost homeless, being paid poverty wages. Since Bush has been in office (and starting around 9/11) my income has tripled. I'm in the best financial shape I've ever been in-- all this while in NYC. So should I vote for Bush? Not a chance.

But if I based my vote on certain personal parameters it would be logical for me to do so wouldn't it?

See what I'm getting at?

[NV Whino]

4. Not over the top at all.

I don't post on other boards. But I rant and rave at and with friends. Have been thrown out of a (former) friend's house. And that was before 9/11. The more vitrol thrown at these assholes, the better.

And yes, I think it will get better with another administration... but we're in such a deep hole right now that it's going to take years.

Where will it go if this misadministration continues? I don't even want to think about it.

[EstimatedProphet]

5. No, you're not alone

I still can't believe that people buy into the whole "the economy is Clinton's fault" thing. For god's sake, Bush has been in office almost 4 years! Randomly making policies with no regard to what they even are or concern would have had more effect by now! And everyone says that the economy is roaring, because he says so-how is it roaring? The low dollar? Or the low unemployment?
The fact is, anyone who would legitimately try to make things better would have had some success by now.

[mhr]

6. Unemployed 51 Months, My CV Includes The Following

BSEE,
MBA
Commercial Pilot
Honorably Discharged Naval Officer (I did show up for work BTW)

2,500+ resumes out the door - to date no significant job or job offer

The comment to the above - when the country is losing jobs you don't support a policy of outsourcing that exacerbates the problem!

Your imagination is not fooling you. The policy choices of the * administration have had an impact on us and millions more.

[Ardee]

7. the easy way out

Blaming the little intellectually challenged, dry-drunk-in-charge for the ills of this nation and your own personal difficulties is both easy and ill conceived.

As our educational system has bogged down and is restructured to churn out endless supplies of McDonald's workers we see increasing numbers of people who simply cannot analyze data, think things through or arrive at complex decisions...pity.

The very nature of Capitalism leads us to this era in which our nation is looking more and more like a third world nation. As more and more wealth migrates to fewer and fewer, as corporations act like voracious sharks in a feeding frenzy we will continue to see animosity abroad and unemployment here at home.

Both the Democrats and the Republicans are mired in a system that no longer works for the great majority of this nations citizens. While this current administration is much more blatant and obvious in its pandering to its wealthy friends there is little about its leanings that was not true under Clinton or Carter.

Please think about these utterings rather than immediately post some knee jerk vituperative rant...thank you.

[mhr]

10. True, There Is Plenty Of Blame To Share - Regardless, The Current Leader

is none other than *. Hence the current blame is rightly directed in that direction. Past sins are past sins. The people that can make a change today are * and the republicans.

[Ardee]

22. spread the blame

While blame is obviously directed at the current administration, and rightly so,I was thinking more about solutions. Unfortunately I feel rather strongly that both major parties are equally useless in resolving the many problems besetting our nation.

Both parties have sold their souls to the corporate dollar at great expense to our needs. While this current administration is a model of dishonesty,greed, untruthfulness, obsessive secretiveness they are not all that different from a democratic administration, I'm sorry to say.

I truly believe that the only hope for our country is the growth of third party politics, a party which is not dependent upon the flowing corporate largess and can thus be really responsive to the greater good.

[Zell in Hell]

8. Put it this way...

When somebody says "Axis of Evil", the nations that pop into my head are the People's Republic of China (whose domestic supporters are rightists and opponents are libertarians, socialists, and left-liberals), the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, and the United Sates of America.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

9. It isn't a cyclical thing this time

Bush has intentionally hurt the working class of this country with this tax cuts for the rich and his virtual endorsement of outsourcing and corporate malfeasance.

[SheilaT]

11. Because I'm

running for office and going door to door talking with voters, I'm getting a somewhat different perspective these days.

I'm honestly surprised at the number of those who tell me they support Bush, or that they plan to vote Republican all the way. And while some of these are clearly in the SES that has benefited (or think they've benefited) from Bush's tax cuts, many more are those who don't understand they've been hurt by those very same things.

Many genuinely good people honestly assume that the President, no matter who he is, is going to be a good, decent man who cares about the people of this country and will sincerely do what is best for all of us. They don't watch much news. Oh, they probably watch one of the local TV news stations, usually one with their favorite weather person, and they catch a little of Fox or CNN, but they never, never tune to C-Span -- if they even have cable. They don't read the newspaper, or only skim it, paying more attention to the sports pages than anything else, because they really do care about the local football or baseball team or the local university's basketball team.

They're not stupid, and they're not really ignorant, just uninformed and have no clear idea that what's happened in the last four years has altered this country immensely. They've heard "Al-Qaeda" and "Saddam Hussein" and "weapons of mass destruction" put together in the same sentence enough times that they believe there really is a connection.

And so, the idea that we should not change horses in midstream, not abandon a president in war time is one that matters to them. They think that it's okay to give up a little liberty to be safe, not realizing that just as you can't be just a little bit pregnant, you don't give up just a little liberty.

Most people are too busy working hard, raising a family, taking care of elderly parents, and so on to pay attention the way we are. And I know that most people here are doing exactly those things, but somehow we care more, care enough to at least read a forum like this and express our opinions. I know also that many of us are active in other ways, but we truly are a minority, albeit a somewhat large one.

Personally, I don't have a lot of faith that things are going to get better any time soon. Even if Kerry succeeds in entering the White House next year, things are so bad in Iraq, so bad here at home, that I'm convinced everything will get much worse before it gets better.

What's happened since December 11, 2000, is not simply an aberration, but part of a long-time decline in this country. It's been masterminded by all those behind the PNAC, and won't go away just because John Kerry is our president.

[bemildred]

12. Well said, Sheila. nt

[2Design]

14. YEs as many say this started in the 70's - rw started infiltrating

every where - government started to be taken over by rethugs - Reagan came along and then Bush I - Clinton only brought us part of the way back from the brink - and in less than 1 year Bush II had us deep in depth again and slashed and burned any progress Clinton made and took us back to the 60's

They want to get rid of the New Deal of FDR - They are hell bent on Cheap Labor and control by fear

It will take as Dean said - getting involved at all levels - The DNC does not spend money or support many of the local races - THE RNC throws money at any competitive race (another candidate running) - they don't seem to care if it is a long shot

- look at keyes in Ill - now that is a waste of their money - but they have it to waste

many of the local dems still have money problems - and there are still many races uncontested - rethugs running without competition

We have to take back school boards, city councils, and local and state positions to really make a difference

we need people lik Barack to run every where - we don't need anymore mealy mouth dems like Lieberman or Zell miller or others who vote rethug interests

[Nay]

15. Thanks, Sheila. This is the same result I get when I talk to coworkers.

So many just take it for granted that no one who is (s)elected to office could really be: stupid, malevolent, greedy, etc. By default, an elected person must always be one who wants the best for all citizens.

Unless we get people out of this mode, there is no hope. Even if Kerry wins (and I think he will), this country is so far in the hole in every way that it will be difficult to pull it out of decline. So many problems have been ignored for too long a time, due to the neocons' manipulation over the last 25 years.

[Eloriel]

16. That's what's known as The Big Lie, Sheila

Many genuinely good people honestly assume that the President, no matter who he is, is going to be a good, decent man who cares about the people of this country and will sincerely do what is best for all of us.

Once upon a time I ran across a quote from George H.W. Bush to the effect that who cares if something patently false gets broadcast or appears on the front page? That's seen by millions, but the correction by only a few thousand. (Horrible paraphrase, but the gist is accurate.)

I've often said that it's easy for some of us who were paying attention to think bad things about Bush because we KNOW what went on in the 2000 Selection (and then a lot of us went looking further into Bush's background, and some were even smarter to know in advance all about the Bush Crime Family) -- but most people don't have that frame of reference, so cracking through that "Big Lie" to get them to even consider SOME of the Bush Crime Family's crimes is a big, big, maybe even impossible task.

And then there's this quote from Hitler's Mein Kampf:

HITLER on THE BIG LIE:
The size of the lie is a definite factor in causing it to be believed, because the vast masses of a nation are in the depths of their hearts more easily deceived than they are consciously and intentionally bad.

The primative simplicity of their minds renders them more easy victims of a big lie than a small one, because they often tell little lies but would be ashamed to tell big ones.

Such a form of lying would never enter their heads. They never would credit others with the possibility of such great impudence as the complete reversal of facts.

Even explanations would long leave them in doubt and hesitation, and any trifling reason would dispose them to accept a thing as true.

Something therefore always remains and sticks from the most impudent of lies, which all bodies and individuals concerned in the art of lying in this world know all too well, and therefore they stop at nothing to achieve this end.

[SheilaT]

19. In many places

such as Kansas, where I am, it's very difficult to get Democrats to run, because the strength of the Republicans is perceived as even greater than it is. The same may well be true in the reverse in places dominated by the Democratic party.

The Democratic party here in Kansas is rather weak and ineffectual, despite having a Democratic Governor. What money the party has to spend on local races does not seem to be going to any of us in Johnson County, which is in the northeast corner of the state and is essentially all suburbs of Kansas City, MO.

This year the conservative (meaning far right) wing of the Republican party mounted challenges to every single moderate incumbent, and has defeated some of the moderates in the primary. The incumbent in my district faced such a challenge, although he prevailed. However, at the precinct committee chair level, the conservatives won overall. In fact, my opponent won his precinct committee chair race, but his own wife lost to the conservative challenger. Which is scary, but may well mean that my race is all the more winnable for me, since he won't have the support at the precinct level that he needs. While I don't expect that kind of support. Indeed, I only have about three precinct committee chair people in my 14 precincts, one of whom has already informed me he supports the incumbent!

I'm also learning the immense power of going door to door. I intend to win this race one voter at a time.

[2Design]

13. NAFTA is a big problem - started by rethugs - signed by clinton -

and embraced by congress - this is shipping the jobs out - lowering the pay and getting rid of union influence

unions help us have
40 hour work week
holidays
vacation
higher pay - living wage
health benefits

in getting rid of unions and breaking them - rethugs + dems have done us in

[Pathwalker]

18. How vitriolic can you be with those sentiments?

(S)Election 2000 was a coup, plain and simple. You called it an election.

[Zhade]

21. Hell, some call me a "far left reactionary" right here on DU!

They have this problem with my pointing out uncomfortable truths. But they're entitled to be mistaken - since I'm anything but "far left" (a pejorative rightwingers love to throw at non-Republicans), I'm really not worried about their anonymous opinion.

I'm not "over the top", so much as they are uninformed. But I used to be the same way for a long time, so I don't hold it against them. Everyone learns at their own pace, and as long as someone is willing to learn and is open to knowledge, that's good enough for me.