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XanaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 01:38 PM
Original message
My Response to RW Relative Who Supports * 's "War On Terror"
Edited on Tue Sep-21-04 02:04 PM by LibertyChick
First of all, I want to thank all of you, my DU family, who patiently have listened to my rants about relatives who constantly harass me with deranged e-mails about how, "if I had children I would support Bush", among other things. Below is my latest response to another e-mail from a semi-sane relative who insists on engaging me in discussions about why I should support Bush. As I knew it would, the latest beheadings led them to e-mail me again as to why * is correct and Kerry is wrong.

Here is my response (excuse my typoes):

Dear XXXX:

Well, I want to make something clear. You seem like a reasonable person, so let me try to explain my position on this. It's long, but please bear me out:

I in no way support terrorism, terrorists, I denounce anything like
beheadings, torture. One can be both against terrorism, *and* this war, a war that George Bush created out of a lie. Because you must remember: Iraq had NOTHING TO DO with 9/11. Even Bush finally, after reams of evidence came out that there was no connection, had to reluctantly admit that. Again, I am all for attacking the people who committed the atrocities of 9/11. Iraq, Iraquis, the Iraq people, the entire country, had nothing to do with 9/11.

George Bush used the fear and anger of 9/11 to push forward a war that HE wanted for whatever reasons, and I suspect oil. Bush talked about going to war with Iraq during his campaign, *long* before 9/11. He is using 9/11 for his own gain, and nothing else. He is despicable for doing so.

There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. If Hussein had had WMDs, he would have used them most certainly during this current conflict. There were WMDs at one time, but they were all destroyed during and after the Gulf War. The last time the UN documented him having WMDs was in 1988. Those weapons were supplied to him by President Ronald Reagan, to use against Iran. He abosolutley gassed the Kurds and Iranians. He is evil, don't get me wrong. But he posed no IMMINENT THREAT to the US. This is the critical point.

So far, the Iraquis cannot be proven to have ever tried to harm the US. Yet, we have invaded their country, killed almost 30,000 people, most of whom are innocent civilians, women ,and most disgustingly of all, CHILDREN. Over a quarter of a million have been permanently maimed, wounded, lost limbs, lost their entire families. All because of Bush's lies.

So, Bush took a country that was not training or sponsoring terrorism, Iraq, and turned it into chaos that is NOW a breeding ground FOR terrorists and terrorism. When you kill people's children, make them live in garbage, burn them alive, and let them die because the hospitals cannot even treat them because the hospitals have been blown to bits, you bring about the same
anger YOU would feel if that happened to your children and family, and YOUR loved ones.

Let's look at some history of what really happened. 9/11 was perpetrated by 15 Saudis, and four Morrocans. NOT ONE IRAQI. Not one. Not a single one. The leadership of Al-Queda, the people who planned 9/11 and paid for it, were also Saudis and Egyptians. The person who is leading the terrorists in Iraq is a Jordanian, Al-Zaqari. The terrorists in Iraq are not even Iraquis. They are people who are Jordanians, Iranians, and Syrians. They
entered Iraq because we, the US , were not guarding the borders but guarding the oil wells. Which tells one a lot about the *real* reason Bush wanted a war with Iraq.

Now there are millions are angry Iraquis primed to be recruited as
terrorists against the US, because of the anger they now feel against the US. Osama bin Laden, who WAS behind 9/11, ordered a fatwah (holy war) against Hussein! We just did Osama bin Laden's own work for him, because of Bush.

Osama bin Laden, sworn enemy of the US, also was a sworn enemy of Hussein. This is all true.

George Bush did not inherit this mess. He made this mess. As much as you hate Clinton, he and his administration started many programs to contain terrorism and seek out Al-Queda and kill its leaders.

Did you know that George Bush canceled many of those operations when he came into office? That is true also. Bush did not inherit Iraq. He made Iraq. So, Bush cancels the programs that were hunting down and containing the very people who struck us on 9/11. After 9/11, Bush opposed setting up a department of homeland security. Bush opposed an investigation into what went wrong on 9/11. Bush did not allow the inspectors from the UN to finish their inspections of Iraq because of "imminet threat". Bush has changed his reasons for why we went to war each time his latest reason for war was proven false. He abandoned the chase of Osama bin Laden when bin Laden was cornered in Tora Bora in a 10-mile square area. How? Bush pulled out the Delta Forces and sent them to the Gulf to start invasion of Iraq. Thus,
thanks to Bush, bin Laden is still free, and probably still planning another attack on the US. THIS IS WHY I SUPPORT KERRY. I am *against* terrorism, against those who plot to kill Americans.

John Kerry, many times before we invaded Iraq, said we must first target get Al-Queda and bin Laden, then worry about Iraq. We could have a wait-and-see attitude about WMDs there.

Let's look at it this way. Pakistian is supposedly, an ally of the US. However, all of the Islamic fundametalist schools that teach hate against the West are in Pakistan. What is Bush doing about this? Nothing. All of the major terrorist organizations who sponser suicide bombers in Israel actually have offices in Syria. Hezbollah, the group that sponsored the bombing and killing of 221 American Marines during Reagan's Administration, still operate in Damascus, Syria.

So, since I am against terrorim and those who attack the US, I am NOT for Bush. He is a dangerous person who has let the real terrorists go free. So far, all that Bush and his "advisors" have said about Iraq and WMDs has been false, and everything Kerry has said for the past two years, has been proven to be true. Even other Republicans are taking Bush to task for his incompetence and lies.

And I don't even want to think about the poor Americans and their loved ones who died for Bush's many lies. These poor people wanted to defend our country, and were brave enough to do so, and were paid back by dying over lies from Bush. While Bush cuts their military benefits.

So, in a nutshell , this is why I cannot support Bush. He is a liar. And tens of thousands of innocent people have died for his lies. And tens and thousands more will die if he stays in office.

Sorry this is so long, but these are complex issues, and I wanted you to see that I have thought this out very much. I would prefer a PResident who knows what is right and does it, than a liar who is always wrong and innocent people die as a result of it. I don't want to be in danger, nor do I want other Americans to be in danger because we have a President looks for terrorism where it is not, and abandons the places where it is.

Anyway, I hope I have made my positions clearer with this. Again, I *DO NOT* support any form of terrorism.

Love, XXXXX


Any and all suggestions would be appreciated, as I anticipate a flurry of e-mails in response to this one.

Thanks.

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MsUnderstood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. Very nice!
You better prepare the list of sources for your "propoganda" (that is the word used for anything said against the pResident) and make sure it is from governmental documents, not news media (the CBS documents pretty much destroyed all media credibility except FOX).
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XanaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Thanks.
Edited on Tue Sep-21-04 01:47 PM by LibertyChick
I thought this relative and I had "agreed to disagree", but there must be something in the RW heart that compels them to keep sending stupid e-mails.
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wickywom Donating Member (383 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
3. wonderful.
I'd add something about," l'd be happy to discuss any of these points."

-If they are religious I'd mention how being in the defense business and all there's a much higher margin of profit from a permanent state of war and conflict--

-They don't want jobs in the US so they can use our children as war fodder.
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XanaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. They are sort of religious
Catholic, and I also should mention the Pope's stance on the war.

Thanks.
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wickywom Donating Member (383 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. Lord my in-laws are SOOO catholic...
well only my mother in-law sends me stuff anymore..

This is kinda mean but two days ago she sent me something called "peace is hard work!" with this long explanation of two carpenters building a bridge yadayada- w/ a list of 8 of God's questions god won't ask
#7 being about why it took so long for me to find salvation
again yadayada.

So i sent her the icasualties.com address.
Think that might have finally gotten my name off the list.

Definately mention the Pope's position on the war, but also find that proclamation thingy by the Pope stating that a catholic does not have to vote only on the issue of abortion.
I'm convinced that's why they find the abortion issue so attractive-- being a sheep is the easiest thing in the world. Mention too that Jesus was a carpenter not a shepherd.
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XanaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. That's good!
Yes, I will include that as well.
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maveric Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
4. Great job LiberalChick. Straight and to the point.
Unfortunately the Kool-Aid drinkers have a problem with believing facts.
I hope that this sinks in and maybe your relatives will begin to think for themselves.
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XanaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I hope it does too,
but I am not hopeful. He claims to not listen to Faux, but I have my doubts.
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
7. great! please let us know the response (nt)
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XanaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. I will.
It's at the point I hate to check my e-mail anymore.
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XanaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #7
18. The response to my above..
Edited on Tue Sep-21-04 04:37 PM by LibertyChick
I was told I should not put up another person's e-mail w/o his or her permission, so here are the high (low) points:

-My idea of "imminent threat" must be different than his.

-Our war against terrorism began in 1972 with the kidnapping of Isrealis at the Olympics.

-My idea that nationalities and borders define enemies is flawed.
(hehe-right, so I asked him "why are we in Iraq?")

-We're fighting for our very lives against terrorism, aka "WWIII".

-Here is a snip:The message President Bush has sent to the
murderers and their ideology of hate and the world is the US will not
sit back and wait for more death to Americans. We will destroy those
who would attempt, now or in the future, to harm us.


-most casualites to Iraqi civilians are from fanatical insurgents (not true).

--Another snippet"You mention lies many times and I
can't respond to it all now, but you are either very misinformed on a
lot of this or just believing what you want to believe...


-Pakistan is helping us more than harming us.

Then it ended with the usual about CLinton teaching young girls to give blow jobs to little boys.

Maybe he is not so sane.
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. sheesh! he really is brainwashed!
--sounds like a hopeless cause, a real dimwit (sorry, I know that is your relative so I apologize for the unflattering names--but, wtf?)
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XanaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. You did not even see the good part about
"bombing the area".

Yup. He and I decided to agree to disagree, and I wake up to another one of his e-mails this morning.

So, naturally, I have decided to respond. Then he answered, and I answered back. I don't get it. If you don't want to read stuff that annoys you, then stop sending me e-mails. I guess they are just supposed to send it and we are supposed to read it and not respond.

Oh, and he e-mailed me a link of the latest beheading.
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MODemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
8. Libertychick; this is how I've been responding to Bush supporters
With reference to the war, when one of my "friends" mentions how they love Bush and support Bush, I say "What is it about the war that you like so much?" I've yet to get a rational answer from any one of them.:eyes: :think: :dem:
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XanaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I'm still
(and this could change in the future) attempting to win hearts and minds at this point. I have another relative whose e-mail I have actually had to block his e-mail.

If it escalates, I will use that. Thanks!
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kimchi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
10. Go for it!
Maybe it will sink in....
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KurtNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
11. Perhaps the views of the troops would help
These clips appeared in USA Today and the Christian Science Monitor today. They seem in line with your points. The way to support the troops is to support Kerry. Stuff like this confuses the poop out of the unenlightened because it is hard to argue with the people who are on the front lines in these wars:

"There's no clear definition of why we came here," says Army Spc. Nathan Swink, of Quincy, Ill. "First they said they have WMD and nuclear weapons, then it was to get Saddam Hussein out of office, and then to rebuild Iraq. I want to fight for my nation and for my family, to protect the United States against enemies foreign and domestic, not to protect Iraqi civilians or deal with Sadr's militia," he said.

Swink, who comes from a family of both Democrats and Republicans, plans to vote for Kerry. "Kerry protested the war in Vietnam. He is the one to end this stuff, to lead to our exit of Iraq," he said.

Other U.S. troops expressed feelings of guilt over killing Iraqis in a war they believe is unjust.

"We shouldn't be here," said one Marine infantryman bluntly. "There was no reason for invading this country in the first place. We just came here and and killed a lot of innocent people," said the marine, who has seen regular combat in Ramadi. "I don't enjoy killing women and children, it's not my thing."


http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/president/2004-09-20-troops-csm_x.htm

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XanaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Thanks!
I want to build a "bibliography" of sorts for future reference.
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IrateCitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
14. Correction on the nationality of hijackers
There were 15 Saudis, and 4 Egyptians (not Morroccans) among the 9/11 hijackers. I believe that Mossaoui was a Morroccan.
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XanaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Thanks.
I doubt he will double check, but it is important we get our facts straight when discussing this stuff.
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