Long post but complex issue. I'd enjoy hearing anyones thoughts and opinions on this
French need to understand exactly what side the croissant is buttered on
Posted by KzooDem
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2367194&mesg_id=2367194This post looked interesting so I clicked on the thread and started to read and of course there it was the requisite insult to the French. My interest in the discussion quickly deteriorated when I came upon this post by a poster called 'greed'. But my interest in the motivation behind it piqued my curiosity.
Here is the comment
I have been there twice and they are very dirty people who are not only rude to Americans but all visitors. Don't get me wrong there were a few nice people but on the whole they are a very resentful and hateful country.
I was expecting a moderator to delete the post but here it is at 5:30 am still there.
Let's change the target of this disgusting remark.
I have been there twice and the Jews, Blacks, Gays are very dirty people
Would DU remove a post that made such a derogatory remark about another group ? I thought they would but I suppose not. I don't fault DU so much because the French people are still a group that it's perfectly okay to insult. I believe we ought to change that.
Why a newbie would make such a comment about the French people on a discussion board like DU without knowing whether or not there were French people or their loved ones or their friends on the site and that this would offend them deeply is of no consequence to greed. Greed doesn't care because George W Bush has made French bashing Au Current. The gregarious greed has obviously come here to win the hearts and minds of everyone on DU but the French. A fabulous way to make friends and influence people. The reason why could be that greed just assumes there are others here that agree and so was comfortable making the statement. Greeds sentiments have been validated as greeds post stands. Have you ever been at a party when some obnoxious jerk tells an anti semitic joke and several people say I'm Jewish ? The jerk just assumes everyone feels the same way unless of course he's called on it. And of course plenty of DU'ers did call him on it. But I think DU could have gone further and removed the offensive post. My opinion. I did hit the alert button.
I can't take anyone seriously once they have expressed a bigoted sentiment and that's what referring to French people as dirty is. The argument that it's somehow politically incorrect is not the issue. Bigots hide behind the PC accusation like it's a shield they can use to protect their ignorance from scrutiny. It's wrong to single out one group of people for critical condemnation and that's just common sense. And we know why it's wrong and what it leads to ultimately. When the Nazi called the Jew filthy and dirty it legitimized their hatred and dehumanized their victim. I wonder what would happen to our French citizens if there was an attack against our troops in Iraq that took the lives of tens of thousands (perish the thought) ? I can see America getting uglier toward the French for opposing the war. Why not Germany ? Why all of this hatred aimed at the French ?
Conservatives are using the French to make the argument that John Kerry is weak. "He looks French". They harp on this notion that John Kerry would have America on it's knees waiting for the French to decide our Foreign policy and whether or not we would defend ourselves without French permission.
They have a problem with the French and it's got some ugly roots. Sexism. The French are girliemen, effeminate. That's the republicans biggest problem, their insecurity about their manhood. They worry about it all of the time. Remember how bent out of shape GHW Bush got when they called him a wimp ? The republicans did their best to play to the sexual insecurities of American males with Al Gore too. They immasculated him as best they could. And the press was happy to get right into it and get their already filthy hands even dirtier. And that's the appeal of W. He's a cowboy, a mans man. Actually, he's an unsophisticated, ignorant, foul mouthed, classless, closet case if you ask me. And that's it isn't it, he's as insecure as they come. That's what all of that swaggering cockiness is, overcompensation. Bush is making America sick with his toxic masculinity. All of this hypermasculinity would have you think republicans would have loved Bill Clinton but again their fragile masculinity was challenged I guess by his way with women.
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"What we're seeing is scapegoating of the French," says Richard Rapson, a University of Hawaii American studies professor specializing in U.S. cultural and intellectual history. "There could be hundreds of other countries that disagree with our interests, but it's the French that have been singled out.
"A lot of the jokes and comments revolve around the notion that we're courageous and they're cowards. There's also the thought that we're tougher and they're more effeminate and effete."
http://www.theolympian.com/home/news/20030309/living/17204.shtml~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The ultimate test of manhood in American societies is arguably the act of war.Part of being a man is to have the life of a warrior... men are taught to avoid, to eschew anything feminine, and to become stoic, unfeeling, and militaristic... Boys and later men ... are socialized toward action, warfare, and conquering, rather than feeling, reflection, and connection. ( Betcher, 120 ) The army is known for making boys into men by treating them in a violent, aggressive, demeaning manner meant to toughen them up. The process of toughening men up often entails verbal bullying, calling them “ sissies or little girls . Physical assault on the body, including strenuous training regimes as well as beatings are not an uncommon occurrence within the military.
Males are driven towards ideals of extreme aggression, dominance, and virility out of fear that they will be publicly ostracized or rejected if they don’t conform to them. Toxic males live in a state of fear “ ... of being discovered weaklings, wimps, pushovers or in other ways not men. “ ( Kaufman, 8 ) Males who fail to act with aggression, dominance, virility and stoicism, who desire other men or desire experimentation with other men, who are reluctant to become sexually active or suffer from sexual dysfunction, or who are unemployed may find themselves the victims of verbal ridicule. They may be called a “ sissy “ or a little girl, insinuating that their lack of conformity makes them women. They may also find themselves the victims of physical abuse by other men. The abuse men confront for not subscribing to or fulfilling rigid masculine ideals is a testament to the fragility and insecurity of this gender status. Given that challenges to a man’s masculinity is so assaultive, it is little wonder that men hide their insecurities and fear of failure behind a curtain of bravado and stoicism ( Gilmore, 164 ) The ultimate pay off of adhering to these extreme masculine ideals is that males receive the sought after status of a “ real man “ and all of its associated power and privileges. Indeed, Pierre Bordieu was correct in asserting “ to praise a man, one has only to say of him ‘ he’s a man ‘ “ ( Badinter, 2 ) The achievement of tests of manhood that entail tremendous labour and cost garners him the reverence and honour of his society.
http://www.athabascau.ca/courses/engl/591/essays/toxic1.htmlef·fem·i·nate
Having qualities or characteristics more often associated with women than men. Characterized by weakness and excessive refinement.
Why are conservatives so uptight about their sexuality ? They equate intellect with femininity too. They don't like women or anything like a woman unless it fits their tedious definition of what a female is and what her role should be.
I wanted to explore the roots of the French strategy so I did some reading and found some fascinating stuff.
America stereotypes the people of France as rude, effete bastards having an undeserved air of self-importance and a culture based primarily around their cuisine. They are generally dismissed as pretentious egomaniacs, with a propensity toward an undeserved ethnocentrism.
These prejudices against the French are so engrained in American culture that isolated instances go unchallenged by typical citizens. In fact, they're barely even noticed at all -- fading into the background. Since they were young, Americans have become desensitized to anti-French portrayals in the media and overall culture.
Florida Congresswoman Ginny Brown-Waite sponsored House Resolution 1265: the American Hero's Repatriation Act of 2003. "France has consistently turned its back on the United States... They forget, if it weren't for America, they would be speaking German today."
To provide, upon the request of a qualifying person, for the removal of the remains of any United States servicemember or other person interred in an American Battle Monuments Commission cemetery located in France or Belgium and for the transportation of such remains to a location in the United States for reinterment.
http://www.rotten.com/library/culture/american-francophobia/Definition: Francophobia refers to an abnormal and persistent fear of France or French culture. Also known for Gallophobia, Galiophobia
American Francophobia Takes a New Turn
View Full Article (PDF—398kb). An excellent read.
At the dawn of the 21st century, something new may be happening in the heartland of America: the spread of a negative image of France. Traditionally, a mostly positive image of France linked to its reputation for good food, high fashion, and sophisticated tourism, coexisted with a somewhat negative image in some elite circles. But the most important factor was definitely a lack of knowledge and the fact that above all, indifference reigned supreme. (See Body-Gendrot in this issue.)
"Francophobia" (not a very satisfactory term) does not constitute rational criticism of France. It expresses a systematic bias against this country, the way anti-Americanism does against the United States. It is based on a set of stereotypes, prejudices, insults, and ready-made judgments. Moreover, like anti- Americanism it deliberately conflates what a country is and what it does. Negative stereotypes about personal characteristics of the French, (for example, they are lazy, immoral, or arrogant) are combined with stereotypes about French society (elitist, unwilling to modernize, or anti-American) and stereotypes about French foreign policy (allegedly based on purely commercial interests or nostalgia for past glory) to produce a complete, if sometimes self-contradictory, discourse of disparagement, what Jean-Philippe Mathy calls in this issue a "system of Francophobia," a web of loosely related clichés that can be mobilized at will—especially, of course, when a diplomatic crisis erupts. This article will offer a brief overview of Francophobia, describing its content and its political base. It will also assess the changes that occurred in 2002-2003, and attempt to establish how new and how important the most recent developments are.
It is difficult to know whether this new mass version of "Francophobia" will prove as long lasting and widespread as is feared. But there is no doubt that in 2003 France joined the ranks of countries subjected to a campaign of widespread bashing from the American population—Japan in the 1980s being the most recent example. While much of the negative recent stereotyping is familiar to students of anti-French sentiment in the US, the replacement of Honda-smashing by Peugeot-smashing in some popular rallies, that is, its diffusion into the wider population, as well as the striking political polarization of Francophobia around conservative patriotic circles, are new characteristics.
http://www.brook.edu/views/articles/fellows/vaisse20030725.htmlFrancophobia:
How to foam at the mouth
while keeping your job
The French, in short, have become the scapegoat for America's problems. Blaming the French enables the war partisans to avoid admitting that they were in any way wrong in their support for the excursion in Mesopotamia. For the leaders of the war party — the neoconservatives — Francophobia serves not so much to protect any guilt-prone psyches as to protect their concrete political interests, by serving to distract public attention away from their misdeeds: Don't blame the neocons, blame the French. Furthermore, Francophobia serves to bolster support for the ongoing occupation of Iraq despite the troubles plaguing that operation. For the United States to pull out would be to surrender to the French position — it would acknowledge that the French were right about the dangers of a war on Iraq. C'est impossible!
The irony here is that all of this French-bashing is the polar opposite of reality. French opposition to the war meshed with the view of the vast majority of the people of the world. It was the United States that was undemocratic in its efforts to coerce and bribe governments to support the war against the opinion of their peoples.
And it is the same people who hammer the French who become so outraged when any criticism is directed toward Jews or Israel. It all represents the height of hypocrisy. But it is so commonplace that no respectable man even notices — or, at least, none dares admit he notices.
http://www.thornwalker.com/ditch/snieg_francoph.htmlFrancophobia.
Utilizing a technique he learned in his fratboy hazing days, Dubya decides to freeze France out for her opposition to the war in Iraq. Along the same lines, Bushies are now trying to deride Kerry by saying he looks French. (Why not tell the American people he's got cooties, while you're at it?) Yes, folks, these people run the country.
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In unfriendly American eyes, France is a cowardly and effete nation that never met a dictator it couldn't appease. It is immoral, venal, anti-Semitic, arrogant, insignificant, and nostalgic for past glory. It is also elitist, dirty, lazy, and it is anti-American. Sure, anti-Americanism and francophobia can be gut feelings. But most of the time, the objective is simply to undermine your opponent's image and credibility, rather than to engage in genuine debate. When you're a "cheese-eating surrender monkey" or a "simplistic cowboy", nobody needs to care about the validity of your arguments.
I began to realise that this wave of francophobia had surpassed recent expressions of French anti-Americanism. Or rather, that it was different. Condescending stereotypes and misrepresentations certainly abound in Paris. But I have never been able to find the front page of a French newspaper with an American official pictured as an animal - or even the equivalent of Christopher Hitchens' comparison in the mainstream print press of Chirac with "a rat". No political correctness stands in the way of France-bashing; you wouldn't see the New York Post replace the face of an African, an Israeli or a Mexican official with an animal face.
http://www.dienekes.com/blog/archives/000047.htmlJack and Jackie Kennedy loved the French people and the French people loved the Kennedys.
The French people love the American people but they don't like George W Bush or his policy of war mongering. Democrats don't like W and his war either so the French our with us not against us. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
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