What can legally happen if the election is stolen?

[shawn703]

Does anyone know what would happen if Bush is sworn in for a second term, but two months later it is determined he only won because of voter fraud? If they can't prove Bush himself had anything to do with it, can he still be removed from office?

[Pachamama]

1. Don't know the answer, but the Kerry Campaign has a team of Lawyers on it

and so do many other organizations (People for the American Way - PFAW, ACLU etc).....I predict that things won't go as smoothly for the smirky one if he tries to steal this election...again....

[northernsoul]

10. Yep, the legal army is being assembled

I know the Kerry-Edwards Campaign here in Minnesota is recruiting every Dem lawyer and law student with a pulse to be ready to roll on Nov. 2 and thereafter if necessary.
We're not going to get caught with our pants down this time.

[RedEagle]

15. And THAT is EXACTLY the Problem

Why wait until Nov. 2 or after?

Why wait for a failure after the fact?

Use these lawyers to get safeguards in place NOW.

Get after the Secretaries of State and election officials who won't follow their own laws.

For the protection of representative Demcoracy in the United States, all Federal offices must be voted on paper ballots, with heavy, heavy auditing by hand.

Kind of like what many others are already proposing.

Why the #$$%X!!! wait for the meltdown?

AVOID it. Proof abounds that you can't recount touch screens and that any computer count can be fudged. There is a body of evidence now that the voting system isn't what it's PR'd to be.

If the Democrats and Kerry are serious about a fair election, they'd get those legal teams on the job NOW.

Don't let the problem happen.

As it stands, they seem to be happier in the janitor's role of cleaning up.

All of this sound like PR for making it seem like they are on top of it when in fact, the time to act is now.

The issue just won't be who wins the presidency. They can "give" that to Kerry, just as long as the neocons control the House, Senate, and Judiciary.

What do they propose to do this November if Bush wins but the election is in dispute? Graciously back down in December for the "good" of the country?


(On edit: Northernsoul, this is not a rant at you. It's frustration at inaction by the people who should be on top of this)

[northernsoul]

17. there's people doing ground work right now

but unfortunately the nature of the beast is that you can't file a complaint about activities that are illegal until they've happened. Trying to change existing laws and regulation is another ball of wax.

What I'm involved with is observing polling stations and filing necessary complaints on election day - that's what we need tons and tons of lawyers / law students on the ground for on Nov. 2. I've been told that Kerry has good lawyers in the battleground states trying to pre-empt any bullshit before that too.

[RedEagle]

20. Then they can pre-empt...

Any votes phoned in or reported via modem.

Last minute software changes in the voting systems.

(In this case, up to a couple months before and no certification, as just happened in Washington State- and some of those systems screwed up but I haven't heard of any Kerry folks on that)

Uphold recount laws, which means there must be a paper ballot.

Allow election observers to actually observe. Reports from California and Washington where observers are allowed into the room but not near the equipment nor anyplace they can observe a screen nor are they allowed to confirm a storage medium used to collect votes is empty going in.

Allow citizens to tape what should be a public proceding.

Tape all election counting activities.


Many of these things don't have to be litigated after the fact, they are going on now in primaries.


Most states have recount laws and you can't recount touch screens. Where are these lawyers?

I want to see their involvement in the cases where they can begin making a difference NOW.

[tom_paine]

2. First off, and I hate to say it, but there is 0% chance that Bushevik

Vote Fraud, even if 100% demonstrable in a Court of Law, will be investigated let alone prosecuted.

First off, this Totalitarian Nation is very close to Civil War and "for the Good of the Country" (which is the usual excuse for covering up Bushevik crimes, all the way back to when they tried to Coup D'Etat FDR in 1934) it will be suppressed.

Like the Plame Indictments. My gosh, you wouldn't want to disrupt an Imperial "election" with information on how utterly corrupt and morally bankrupt the Imperials are!

There IS NO LAW in Imperial Amerika for the Imperials.

Only for us, and those laws are abou to be administered by a 1940s Mississippi infrastructure with the Busheviks as the KKK and Free America as the (RACIAL EPITHET REDACTED)s.

Believe it. The details are still a mystery but the trend is quite clear.

[reprobate]

7. Tom, I tend to agree, but i'd like to hear your reasons.

And do you think this is imminent, or is this just the natural orneryness of the american people.

[tom_paine]

11. Well, given that the details are much murkier and harder to predict than

general trends, I also cannot say how imminent, just that it is coming.

I say this primarily because the Totalitarian Goebbels v2.0 Propaganda techniqes of Demonization and Dehumanization are something lik the dancing brooms of Disney's "Fantasia".

Once these passions reach acertain tipping point, they take on a life of their own.

And, as I said, it is very possible that the children and grandchildren of Tiberius Bunnypants* will be Caligulan and quite content with whatever coems.

Will it look exactly like Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union? Of course not, that would be bad PR and Marketing Strategy.

I don't think this is because of the "natural orneryness" of the Amerikan Imperial Subjects. In fact, if there is ANY hope that the Amerikan Subjects will refuse to "go Soviet or Nazi" (remembering that it will be just Kinder and Gentler enough to provide people the ability to willfully deny what they are doing and what they have become), then it will be our "natural orenryness" that PREVENTS IT.

My hopeful self believes that this will transform over a period of the next two or three decades, possibly coming to fruition under Emperor Ahnold or Perhaps Emperor George P. Caligula.

In either case, if Bunnypants* retains the Imperial Throne this year (it no longer matters how or why, real or a lie) then the Old America is finally and irrevocably dead.

[murray hill farm]

14. and one of the first things to go

will be information availability. we are so accustomed to being able to still access information via internet and www, but sites such as DU will be terminated...information access will be controlled.

[Lerkfish]

19. yup, they are ALREADY stonewalling FOIA requests..

control of information is their goal.

[Vickers]

3. At that point, I will no longer *personally* care about legalities

Nope, I won't care.

[Lerkfish]

4. defrauding an election would be impeachable offense, IMHO.

even if it didn't nullify the election, it would make the shrub impeachable for high crimes and misdemeanors, and treason for interfereing with a fair election.

I'm no lawyer, but I think he'd be in a heap of trouble.

[grace0418]

16. Absolutely but

it already happened in 2000 and there were absolutely no consequences for the asshole. I have never once referred to him as "President" because he is not. If I ever have the pleasure of meeting President Gore, I will refer to him as such whether he likes it or not.

[noiretextatique]

23. exactly...it already happened, and there were no consequences

:shrug:

[Warpy]

5. If Bush steals another election

It will mean the whole body of law in this country has been discarded to help him to do it.

Any remedy will have to be outside the law.

[spotbird]

6. What happened last time? nt

[Surf Cowboy]

8. See Election 2000 and the Coup de Etat that was the Supreme Court.

[in_cog_ni_to]

9. We know that Gore won the 2000 election.

Who's squatting in his house? :grr:

Had they not had control of the government, he would have been impeached. He's illegitimate.

[Bucky]

12. What will happen if the election is stolen will be called Gulf War 3: Iran

[yella_dawg]

13. Why is everyone using "if"? n/t

[SammyWinstonJack]

38. Exactly

More like "when".

[ComerPerro]

18. My theory is that Kerry will go down for voter fraud. Now, hear me out

I think it would be a very Republican thing to do. They rig the voting machines to give Kerry a victory that is enough but still questionable. Then, you will see the media start talking about voting machines and how corruptible they are. Then paper trails will be either examined or produced to show what they need to in order to bring charges of voter fraud against the Kerry campaign.

Now imagine it being amplified by the "liberal media" and people like Hannity and Rush screaming at the top of their lungs.

The Democratic party be finished. Forever.


A little paranoid?

You bet your ass.

It's extremely paranoid.

But it wouldn't suprise me at all.

And it seems like Rove's style.

[reprobate]

22. The Democratic party be finished. Actually the country will be finished

Between the economic fiasco foisted on us and the coming end of cheap oil, the way of life we have been used to will be over. Forget about flying anywhere, cause the airlines will all be out of business. And filling up your suv? get a bicycle. that's the future of america

[Trahurn]

40. Stupidest thing I ever heard

There is no way any republican is going to lift a finger to help get Kerry elected. It's absurd. The republicans have way too many things on their plate and many depend of the continuity of George Bush being elected. I don't care how you slice it this scenario stinks to high heaven and Bush would have even less credibility than he did in 2000.
Way too risky. Your paranoia may be justified but at getting Bush elected. Not Kerry.

[Puglover]

21. I still think the biggest

problem (among many) in 2000 was that the media (AWOLs cousin) declared Florida for Bush and declared him the winner. THAT created the perception that Gore was not the winner and was scrambling to 2nd guess the election. During that whole 35 days or so Bush was by almost all, considered the winner. It was utter bullshit.

[kaitykaity]

24. Nothing. Nothing. NOTHING.

They've already committed enough crimes to land them
in jail for a thousand lifetimes and still they sit there
smiling and laughing and committing some more.

Americans will sit back and take it.

[Dem_Loyalist]

25. I'm not sure about that

But if he does somehow "win" again do you really think they will round up people that have publicly disagreed with them? Ive heard a lot of talk about gulags and re-education camps. Is this a real possibility? With everything Ive seen happening thanks to the so-called Patriot Act I sure wouldn't be surprised.

[BiggJawn]

26. Not a DAMN thing.

Because if he steals this one, he puts a sign on the WH saying "The Law West of the Potomac" and Ashcroft starts to round us all up.

[vetwife]

27. Look under Fema Rx 84 in google and see the pics of the camps

Not Ct..They are real ! Or Fema Concentration camp.. Homeland Security says its for an attack. wanna bet?

http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/us-concentrationcamps-fema-rex84program.htm

this is the only one I could find a pic with..but its has other listed under Homeland Security with executive orders !

[Pachamama]

29. Whoa! That's freaking me out Vetwife!

Even though its "associated" off of a site that some might question (although even reading the info on the site about chip implants in brains etc. is very freaky, and given this gov't, one begins to wonder) but the info on these camps is really, really disturbing...I feel sick....I've wondered often if our country could ever have this happen....I see so many signs, similar to those described by my Grandmother and others from Germany during the rise of the 3rd Reich, and the similarities (in a modern version - they didn't have the same technologies) are frighteningly similar....Scary, really, really scary...

[Swamp Rat]

30. Oi Pachmama!

I've seen 'em with my own eyes, driving back from CA to LA two years ago. I criss-crossed the Southwest until I reached family in Arizona and New Mexico. There are "new prison" projects everywhere. The scariest I found had railroad tracks that led to some buildings with smokestacks... really creeped me out. I was to scared to stop and photograph it. I am going to look right now to see if I have a shot of the tracks and buildings (from a distance, because I was driving and trying to snap photos with a disposable camera I just bought).

[bobbieinok]

31. this is apparently what O North was working on ..... Reagan's exec orders

[coreystone]

32. I wonder which one they'll put me in? Do they have swimming..

pools? Strongly suggest following up on "vetwife's" research and further "Google" for more infor on the "Rex84".
It is very interesting.

[crickets]

34. I kept thinking these were some of my freaky links

Now I'm not so sure.

U.S. CONCENTRATION CAMPS
FEMA AND THE REX 84 PROGRAM
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/camps.html
(mirrors vetwife's link, with extra site info)

AMERICAN CONCENTRATION CAMPS <---- *
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/camps.htm
(news articles; page down for docs and pictures)

http://www.freeamerican.net/ifa29.htm
(list by state)

http://www.apfn.org/THEWINDS/archive/government/camp9-97.html
(general info and history. somewhat outdated.)

"In 1982, President Ronald Reagan issued National Security Directive 58 which empowered Robert McFarlane and Oliver North to use the National Security Council to secretly retrofit FEMA (Federal Emergency Management Agency) to manage the country during a national crisis. The 1984 "REX exercises" simulated civil unrest culminating in a national emergency with a contingency plan for the imprisonment of 400,000 people. REX 84 was so secretive that special metal security doors were installed on the FEMA building's fifth floor, and even long-term officials of the Civil Defense Office were prohibited entry. The ostensible purpose of this exercise was to handle an influx of refugees created by a war in Central America, but a more realistic scenario was the detention of American citizens."


FM3-19.40 TABLE OF CONTENTS - MILITARY POLICE INTERNMENT/RESETTLEMENT OPERATIONS
http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/fm/3-19.40/toc.htm DON'T BOTHER TO CLICK (unless you really want to)

This link used to work, but now if you click it all you see is:

"The RDL has migrated to a new site. Your AKO userid and password may be used to access the materials on ATIA-M.

www.train.army.mil

You can also access the web page from "My Training" under "Self-Service" on AKO, then select "Soldier's Training Home Page" under "Training Knowledge On-line." If you do not currently have an AKO password, go to www.us.army.mil to request one. "


Edit1 - "DON'T BOTHER TO CLICK"

Edit2 - From AMERICAN CONCENTRATION CAMPS above. Check other links as well:
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/camps_confirmed.htm
Hi-res Photos - Prison Camp in Mississippi Confirmed

[maverick hombre]

28. Creepy thoughts huh?

I say there is enough "flux" in the population that if the election becomes the true landslide it is for Mr. Kerry, the possibility exists that portions of the Bill of Rights can be recovered. The bigger problem is, if the Kerry landslide is "allowed" to naturally take place without major shenanigans, America will breath a sigh of relief and be complacent again.

The real work technically begins on November 3, even under a Kerry presidency. The Roves and neo-cons will not go away. They are the more terrifying version of "Pinky and the Brain". They will not stop until either the world becomes dominated by their likes...which means we're living in a "breather" period between the former Hitler and the next one, or a civil war will break out eventually destroying the nation as we know it.

The work has only begun for those who want to keep their freedom. If we breathe easy and sleep after November 2, we will face the inevitable. In other words, these neo-con maligancies must be pursued just like the "war criminals" that they are. Their movement must be dismantled through the legitimate prosecution of its culpable leadership AFTER Kerry wins.

[coreystone]

33. Hoping Kerry wins...but, these guys will have to be clearly exposed...

to American people for what they really represent, and, politically neutralized. Remember, there still will major problems with the Congressional allignments.

[vetwife]

36. I am not into Ct but there is an FEMA program and some of this

bears investigating. The Homeland Security (just the name Homeland) gives me the jitters. Homeland...Motherland..all terminology used in Nazi Germany..is something that they would deem very useful in case of a biological or chemical attack. Or so they would spin it. Who would have thought we would have had Gitmo 5 years ago with no access to a court of law and held forever. Who would have thought? Another thing? Why Gitmo in Cuba? Seems we have a lot of empty space in these lockups here in the states? Because in the states we would have to abide by the Law...is my guess. Cuba? Who knows ....what really goes on there.

[Q]

35. First...there has to be proof of fraud...

...and then a working justice system to act on it. There was proof of fraud in 2000...but no functioning system of justice to take it to a logical conclusion.

- Most American media are owned by coporations who want to see corporate Bush* stay in office and investigative journalism is dead.

- Don't hold out much hope that our country knows how to deal with election fraud.

[annabanana]

37. we may never know........see Bush's October plan

see this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2367673






ed title

[Trahurn]

39. IMHO

I am no lawyer although I think I might have liked to have been one.I am certainly no constitutional expert but it would appear at least on the surface that if can be proved by any standard you can think of. Beyond a reasonable doubt-Criminal court standard. Preponderance of the evidence(Civil Court Standard) that Bush won the election "Only" due to blatant voter fraud it would seem to stand on it's face that is a felony of colossal proportions and is definitely an example of a "High Crime." Under such circumstances it would seem the congress would have no choice then to bring articles of impeachment which the Senate would have to convict on. Unless, of course the evidence was so damning Bush himself would have to see he would have no other choice but to resign. Only to leave us in the caring hands of Dick Cheney. But we are there anyway so same difference.