I am damned sick of No Child Left Behind.

[callous taoboy]

I teach third grade in an elementary school the size of a mall with an enrollment of 978 children grades 1-5. I am one of 9 third grade teachers. We 9 teachers found ourselves in the principal's conference room this morning to review our school's test results from last spring. Our reading scores were slightly below state average, but our math scores fell far short. We spent a half hour looking at the math test the students took, the principal grilling us on how we were going to teach certain problems this year that were missed the most on the test. We had to remind her that our materials are inadequate, that we never have time alloted for us to collaborate on ideas, that many of us are already giving up our lunch periods to tutor children in small groups etc. There was a mood of resentment in the room because we all work 9, 10 and 11 hour days plus most of us are in on the weekends for several hours, not to mention the hour or more each evening grading papers and preparing for the next day. Our vice-principal, a Mepublican, said that we need to be allowing children enough time to come up with solutions to problems in small groups, that what the teachers in 5th grade are seeing is that the kids don't know how to approach math without the teacher leading the charge and holding their hands.

That's when I decided to throw out my two cents. First, I told the vice-principal that we do not have the time to allow kids to ponder math problems given that the state mandated math objectives are many and difficult, and especially now that her character education lessons that she is requiring we teach will steal an additional 17 hours total this year. We have to teach to the test, teach them how to jigger the test (which I think is rather insidious in itself), and we have to teach them the strategies and the format of the test if they are to have any chance of passing it. It is a booger, and is too difficult for the average third grader from our population. Second, I reminded the group that the whole notion of a "standardized" test is ridiculous given that communities in this state are far from standardized, that we, with 50% of our school population living at or below the poverty line, have little chance of meeting the state average when you have wealthy communities helping set the bell shape curve for the state. Wealthy communities aside, I also pointed out that research has proven that large schools such as ours tend to do much poorer on standardized tests than your small school with a student population of under 200. I also pointed out that a nearby town with demographics and population similar to our town has consistently passed bond measures allocating monies to the schools allowing each teacher to have a class size of 15 or less, K-12, while our school district each year applies for, and is granted, a class size waiver allowing us to surpass the state-mandated class size cap of 20 in grades K-3. I have 23 this year. Needless to say, the town I mention does very well on the test. In other words, I stood up for myself and my colleagues and asked what this community as a whole is doing to help our kids succeed. A school like ours needs so much more than it has in technology, materials and assistants. We need forward-thinking school board members who agree to break our school into four schools and convert the present building into an outlet mall or science museum.

Sorry for the rant. I'm just burned out and demoralized by the meeting today. Vermont beckons. I understand that they are attempting to get out from under NCLB, a very wise move.

[Systematic Chaos]

1. It's a damn shame, the situation you find yourself in.

I'm not a teacher so I can't offer much but sympathy and platitudes. But, if what you're saying about Vermont is true, I wish you the best getting a job there.

I know from my conversations with the more liberal of my co-workers that the situation in Nevada is every bit as dire. Even in the "better" schools, the teachers at just about every grade level are teaching mostly for whatever proficiency exam is upcoming for their students. It's one hell of an ugly mess, and I really have to commend the truly caring teachers (of which there aren't nearly enough anymore, IMO) for keeping their sanity in the face of these policies.

By the way, I LOVE your screen name. I'm surprised that with as many posts as you have, I hadn't noticed it before. :)

[mdmc]

2. please don't blame Kerry & Edwards just b/c they voted for it

They will be a great Education team!

[Cheswick2.0]

21. WTF? don't blame them for voting for it? Are they NOT responsible?

They will be a lousy education team unfortunately. If you want to know who would be good for education it is the people who are against NCLB.
IF Kerry and Edwards do anything positive for Education it will be because every teacher in this country does a massive marcn on DC and DEMANDS they listen to people like DEAN and others in VT who know the score on NCLB.

Your cheerleading has gone way overboard. You don't seem to give a damn about the real problems that have to be solved.

That vote for NCLB and the fact that Kedwards thinks the solution is funding the POS legislation proves they are going to suck on education.

[Carla in Ca]

3. You are showing the commitment now that it took to

become a teacher in the first place, and they wouldn't be achieving anything at all if not for you. And also keep in mind that children are being raised differently now...a lot of 'outside interference', if you will.
I will share a thought of mine with you, if I may;

When you give a child the destination, you rob them of the journey.

[alcuno]

4. Our high school is opting OUT.

The elementary district doesn't have that option because of the funding. NCLB could very well collapse under its own weight. It's a pile of garbage that the parents detest as well.

I am teaching 8th grade math this year and it's going to be ugly. Our white students are meeting the standard at 90% + while our minority students are meeting at around 35%. Yikes! The economic/family backgrounds are MILES apart but all the pressure is on the schools.

Mt folks, who voted for Nader and Bush in Florida, have agreed to vote Kerry to change NCLB.

[Cheswick2.0]

22. Kerry is not going to change NCLB unless you force him to do it

he's going to tweak here and there when what needs to be done is for it to be scrapped.

[poliguru]

5. A fellow teacher sympathizes

I teach high school social studies in IL, and our test is ridiculous. It is crazily specific about things that don't matter (Asking who bombed Pearl Harbor and why makes sense. Asking who was the Japanese general who ordered the attack is crazy.), it is too hard, and the social studies standards are so broad that there is no chance f us actually meeting them in any way that is consistent with the rest of the state (good for real teaching, bad for tests). In Chicago, students cannot pass on to the next grade if they do ot score at or above the 25% percentile on the Iowa Test. But the nature of a percentile test is that 24% of the students who take it MUST score below a 25%. All the teachers I have ever spoken to about the NCLB are frustrated (although it's always good for a hearty laugh in faculty meetings when some admin states that 100% of children must meet state standards by 2011). And while I have never personally come under attack for low test scores, I resent the amoun of time we teachers spend worrying about, discussing, and planning for the test. I, for one, can come up with lot more useful and educational things on which to spend my time. Hang in there - this law is bound to fail, and then maybe the powers-that-be will again listen to reason.

PS - my sone had 33 kids in his 1st grade class last year. Wonder why some never learned to read.

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. The ITBS sucks!!!

I teach in MO and thank God we no longer give the Iowa.

We have a criterion referenced assessment program. It's a great test. I think Kentucky uses a similar test. The score tells us what the kid knows, not how he performed as compared to a norm group. It is written by teachers and scored by teachers.

We do have to give a normed standardized test for the feds (I think for Title I) and we use the SAT-9. It's not great, but it is far better than the ITBS. But we use our MO state tests for NCLB reporting.

[poliguru]

8. The standard IL test is criterion referenced

So that's a good thing, in and of itself. But te test still sucks. And to deny grade advancement based on the ITBS is crazy.

[proud2BlibKansan]

37. I'll tell you something crazier

In KS, a kid can be diagnosed LD based on 'teacher judgement' and ITBS scores.

In my MO district, that would qualify about 90% of our kids!!

[Xithras]

16. You consider that hard?

Damn, I've been out of school for 13 years and can still remember that Yamamoto ordered the attack on Pearl Harbor.

[poliguru]

30. It's not that it's hard to remember one fact

It's that of all the things a good social studies teacher may want to teach in a class, that isn't at the top of the list. Education was just at the point where it was FINALLY getting progressive, where it was FINALLY preparing students to actually think instead of recite. Sure, you can remember Yamamoto - but when was the last time you had to use that information? We should be teaching problem solving, critical thinking, etc. - not this random fact crap. The name of Yamamoto doesn't relate to anything a high school student needs to go out into the world - those skills are what he/she needs. The tests killed that movement.

[JHB]

62. Ah, but Yamamoto was an admiral and he was against the attack...

...so "the general who ordered the attack" (and thus led to Yamamoto's planning of it) was Tojo or someone else.

That's the problem with those "Columbus" questions (i.e., "Who discovered America?") -- not only does it penalize students with insufficient knowledge of the subject -- it also penalizes students with a superior grasp of the subject and know the question has a more complicated answer. In a sane world, the teacher would be able to mark the "wrong" answer correct because the student demonstrated clear mastery of the subject above and beyond expectations for his/her grade. With these blanket standardized tests, being too right can get you marked wrong.

[TexasBushwhacker]

32. The science test is too hard too

Frankly I think they are trying to cover way too much material at too high a level. The kids taking high school biology now are learning things that I didn't learn until college, but they aren't really learning it because it's too hard. I'm all for having goals, but they have to be achievable or you're just setting up more kids to feel like failures. Our world is more complex than it was 30 years ago when I was in high school, but that doesn't mean that a teenager's brain (or the grade schoolers' for that matter) is capable of handling more information or handling it sooner.

[proud2BlibKansan]

6. I teach in MO

at an inner city school. We do pretty well on our state Math tests. Email me and I will send you some of the stuff we use to help our kids prepare.

BTW, I teach self-contained LD (4th and 5th grades) and my kids outscored the regular classrooms on the Math test last spring. So yes, it can be done.

Email me and (to paraphrase Kerry and Edwards) hope will be on the way.

[e-mail]

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[callous taoboy]

10. Thanks, Proud.

I'll e-mail you later in the day.
CT

[callous taoboy]

9. I appreciate the empathy.

Alcuna- we face the same disparity between white and Hispanic kids in test results. The test is proving to be a test of demographics as much as anything.

[phylny]

11. I was a speech-language pathologist in a low-income school in Virginia

and we were told by the principal that we all had to participate in *mandatory* tutoring after school for our students in the weeks prior to our Virginia Standards of Learning tests, especially those that were on the cusp, but had a chance to pass. The rationale was "our kids need more." Yes, it was paid time, she always got a grant, but for some of us, it was a hardship - I had MY kids to get after school. I always got an exemption from the actual tutoring and did before-tutoring snack duty, because my area of expertise was so far removed from what these kids needed.

A similar school solved the problem in a way our principal didn't want to - their tutoring sessions were "fill and drill." They worked those kids to the bone trying to help them master the test.

NCLB is a joke, especially since budgets aren't passing, there's less money every year, but people expect teachers to just pick up the pieces and perform miracles. The thing is, the teachers I knew did just that!

[callous taoboy]

12. Phylny-

I'm on my break now and have performed about 6 miracles this morning alone.:)

We do the same after-school thing here (called "extended day") but it is on a paid volunteer basis only. I don't do it because I am too worn out by the end of the day.

[phylny]

13. I salute you!

I have never worked with a teacher who didn't put out time, effort, and money to help his or her students. I see teachers putting incredible amounts of energy into helping their students.

I can imagine you're worn out at the end of the day - that's why I left the education system and went into private practice before moving. I adored the kids I worked with, but with a caseload of 62, the workload was impossible. I would start to become depressed on Sunday afternoon because I took work home with me over the weekend that I didn't have the energy to look at.

[callous taoboy]

24. Oh, yeah, that Sunday afternoon depression:

I know it well.:-(

I'm finding it more and more difficult to shake the blues on the way to school. Music helps, as does humor, so today we danced to the Talking Heads and then I put a good Peanuts cartoon on the overhead. And this was before the kids came in (just kidding).

It helped us all get focused.

[proud2BlibKansan]

38. We are required in Mo

to offer after school tutoring to kids who perform poorly on the test. But there is no money to pay for transportation. So most of the kids who are eligible for the tutoring don't get it because their parents can't pick them up after tutoring.

I am sick of these half assed ideas with no funding. Several years ago, we got a grant from the feds to give our kids breakfast. But the grant didn't pay for the salaries of the cafeteria workers to serve breakfast. So we had the food, but couldn't serve it!!

:wtf:

[usurper4]

14. Special Education is REALLY screwed

My wife teaches Special Education (just learning disabilities, not the really bad cases). She has been told that the No Child Left Behind Act requires teachers to be "specialized" in all topics they teach. Being that my wife is Special Ed, she now needs to go back to school and take classes in Math, English, Science, and History in order to become "specialized". Does she get reimbursed for these classes? No. Does she get a raise afterwards? No. We believe she will need to take between 20-24 credit hours by 2006 in order to be specialized, in addition to teaching full time, in addition to after-school activities, and in addition to being a mother.

I just looooooooooooooove Bush.

[callous taoboy]

23. Special Ed is screwed,

and so are the kids receiving special ed services, since NCLB is calling for an end to states using an alternative assessment for SpEd. students. The rationale is that when a school has X number of kids not taking the real test it skews the picture of what kind of a job that school is doing. Does everyone in this bloody admin. use circular logic???

[proud2BlibKansan]

41. I like the fact that my sped students

are tested just like all the other kids. Before, we were put in basements and ignored. Now we get all the same things the regular kids get. They don't ignore us anymore.

But I teach LD so it's not that hard to get my kids up to speed to pass the tests. I really feel for the MR teachers and their kids.

And we will still be able to use alternative assessments for some sped kids - but only 1% of all kids in a district can take the alternative assessment. So if more than 1% of your kids are seriously impaired, you're screwed.

[Green Lantern]

33. My wife is a Spec Ed teacher

and I can count on the fingers of one hand the times I have heard her swear. in our 42 years together. Until it comes to NCLB (or as we say her No Child or Teacher Left Standing)
I discovered that her vocabulary is far larger than I imagined.

The Repugs pick a topic like education and worry it like a dog working a bone-from every side, every possible direction, no matter how screwed up their thinking, in order to turn a bottle neck into a choke point. The poblem is that we play by the rules, and they are learning quickly how to make the rules. The kids suffer the most-the lack of education, and no matter how hard the educational communtiy tries, too often the results in a knowledge vacuum that the kids fill from controlled media with no significant content but loaded with empty platitudes and slaes pitches.

I spent almost 9 years on the local school board. An exercise in total frustratiion. Less and less local control. More unfunded mandates than Carter has little liver pills, and local tax rebellions because of funding and tax burden shifts. Falling ability to develop local policies; inability to raise money sufficient for programs and building maintenance. And on and on.

I have come to believe the powers that be do not want an educated work force, for obvious reasons. NCLB is almost certain to accomplish that.

Vouchers aren't the answer. You have little control over distant schools, religious institutions, towns in which you don't pay taxes. Service sector jobs don't require the level of education we have given our children for decades. They don't want to pay for our kids. All I can say is God help us when we have retired and are on the porch quietly rocking our way into the sunset, hoping these kids learned enough to keep us all going.

Kerry said that NCLB needs only tweaking. That is an even more frightening prospect, that a purported liberal sees no evil here. Let's hope he sees the light before it's too late.

[ulysses]

35. "tweaking" my ass.

I teach special ed too, specific learning disabilities. If Kerry comes into office with the idea of "tweaking" NCLB instead of tanking the goddamned thing, we need to come down on his ass like a ton of bricks.

[proud2BlibKansan]

43. NCLB is NOT going away

It has been in the works for 20+ years. Face it, we need some kind of accountability. I just want it to be valid and reasonable.

[ulysses]

46. oh yes, I forgot

about how educators faced no accountability before.

[proud2BlibKansan]

40. I teach LD too

but I am elementary, so I don't have to do what your wife does and take all those classes. That is really insane.

[strategery blunder]

52. 20-24 credit hours?

:wtf:

That's almost two full-time years of college!

[HFishbine]

15. Is this an example of what Bush means

when he delivers that crowd-pleasing line about local school systems being able to make education decisions?

[cthrumatrix]

17. he is such a joke..and the media ignores this

[proud2BlibKansan]

45. But Bush DID ask

"Is our children learning?"

:freak:

:dunce:

[progressivebydesign]

18. I'm sorry for what this is doing to teachers and kids..

.. I quipped to an acquaintance, who is a teacher, that her frustration with tests was due to "No District Left Unpunished", she hadn't heard that before, and loved it. The testing is killing the teaching... teaching to a test is a really, really bad idea. The original goal of NCLB was good, leave it to Bush to screw it up.

[Tsiyu]

19. Yes, Another fine Gift from our Fearless Leader

who probably couldn't pass the tests himself.

My fourth grader lives with his dad and his dad's wife. She called last night to say that this child- who was selected for the gifted program last year - is now failing several subjects. What the hell happened? We have sentenced our youth ( and our teachers) to academic imprisonment, where the joy of learning and the excitement of teaching have been supplanted by the chains of the "standardized" and the whips of blind compliance.

Bush is a maggot.

[Tsiyu]

44. Well, talked to Pap tonight

and sounds like it's not so bad for my son. He's just going through the flakey, prepubescent stuff ( he's in fifth, not fourth as I mistakenly said. i don't want him to grow up, i guess!)

But I'm sure most of his problems stem from being bored to tears with the endless rote work of teaching to the test. If any schoolteacher votes for Bush, he or she should lose their teaching certificate immediately.

[Commendatori]

20. My daughters go to a private school, precisely because of

bullshit like you describe.

Is there a published set of standards? I'd love to see what all kids in every zip code are responsible for these days.

[Cheswick2.0]

26. Here you go

http://www.education-world.com/standards/state/index.shtml

[Commendatori]

28. Perfect! Thanks! :))) (N/T)

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

25. NCLB is just class warfare and the wealthy are winning..again.

To see where the schools are that are failing on the test scores, all one has to do is look at the income levels. It's a farce in favor of the rich.

Instead of properly funding education in this country we plow $87 billion into killing people in Iraq.

[Tsiyu]

27. Hey! We're liberating those people!

From ever walking again....from living....from housework ( if you have no house -well?) ....from practicing their chosen faith....from having to work (80% unemployment)....Don't confuse the masses....


sarcasm off for now

[phylny]

29. No joke, you're right on the money

In my former county, we always got a listing of the different schools and the SOL (Virginia Standards of Learning) test scores. My child's school scored solidly in the 90th percentile - every single fifth grade student in her school passed, most with advanced proficiency, the year my daughter was in fifth grade. A little school about 4 miles away - same county, same district, same materials, same standards for teachers - scored in the low 80s. The difference? Socioeconomic, plain and simple. Our school was inhabited by kids with generally middle- to upper-middle-class parents, most of whom were college educated. The other school had kids from low- to middle-class, mostly rural families, with many English as a Second Language students. Four miles away and a vast difference in scores.

Bush should put his money where his mouth is. He doesn't, he didn't.

[MountainLaurel]

31. ESL students

One of the central problems with how the SOLs are testing them is that ESL learners are only given a one or two year exemption from the test. This despite the fact that research has shown that it takes about 5 years for students to learn the language well enough to grasp content and vocabulary at the same level as native speakers. In some areas, they aren't even getting that exemption, because the schools have such a high ratio of ESL students that if everyone was exempt who should be, the school would automatically be censured.

[phylny]

54. MountainLaurel, did you go to the same workshop as I did?

You're exactly right. It does take a long time for ESL kids to be able to learn in their non-native language. This is another example of poor decision-making by politicians.

[Southpaw Bookworm]

64. Nope.

I'm actually not even a teacher. I just recall reading that somewhere, and relating it to the experiences of a friend who taught at a VA school where probably 75 percent of students were not native born.

Also, I work as a librarian (OK, library assistant: all the duties but none of the privileges) at a community college where the situation is much the same. Among my responsibilities are library instruction and reference. I constantly have to consider whether or not my students are understanding what I am trying to say: words like database, Boolean operator, critical thinking, and metadata, as well as any American idios, will go right over their heads. I once had to explain the phrase "having good buns" to a student when a psychology prof used it as an example of physical attraction in an assignment description. Poor guy couldn't understand why one's bread-making skills would be considered a physical trait.

[ulysses]

34. HERE HERE.

Couldn't agree with you more if I tried. NCLB is bullshit, and what's more it's dangerous bullshit. :thumbsup:

[chemteacher]

36. NCLB is bullshit...I think standards are OK.

I teach in Colo....we have statewide testing as mandated in NCLB. I think Colo was one of the first, probably because Governor BO is such a (wanker) friend of GWLiar.
State standards were first established under Roy Romer and I am actually okay with the idea of laying out some content standards. What got screwy was the statewide testing and the grading of schools. Schools with high passing rates and consequest high grades as a school get MORE money from the state and schools with kids that don't pass get penalized. WTF?!?!?!?

A former principal said basically check out the success of a school's tennis, golf and soccer teams and you'll have a pretty good idea of what there school ranking is.

A big push from the statewide ed association a couple of years ago was to include change scores. I think this could be an important step. Example: If I move a kid's math ability from 6th to 8th grade, that ought to count for something. Under the current system, they are still failing because they are not doing math at the 10th grade level.

FWIW, Governor BO took the statewide tests a couple of years ago and did NOT allow his score to be revealed. Several college presidents took it also.

[LWolf]

39. I believe that's part of the agenda.

The demoralization of educators. Other than leaving children behind, it's what NCLB does best.

My school has a population of about 900, K-8. We are housed in an old temporary facility; 20 year old trailers, no shade, and one...count it...one... student bathroom. We have no class on campus, including K, with fewer than 30 students. Many of us have more. I'm sitting at 32.
We now have a scripted language arts curriculum that, if I really followed the script, takes no less than 50% of the instructional day, leaving the other 50% for math, science, social studies, music, art, pe, etc.. We do mandated district testing every trimester to make sure we are following our "pacing schedule." In addition to the "Big" tests in the spring. This is the 2nd week of school, and my principal has already given us "practice tests" that he wants to see us using when he drops into the room on a random basis. We have new requirements for what goes on the bulletin boards; administrators are coming around with cameras to take pictures documenting compliance. The board is changed weekly. We have to create all the pieces that go up as well as do the take-down/put-up routine. A couple of extra hours a week. Whatever standards we are teaching have to be in our gradebook and on the wall daily, subject to random compliance checks. If an administrator comes in on a random check and finds that we aren't, at that moment, engaged in "direct, explicit" instruction of one of the standards, we are called to the carpet and disciplined.

Teachers in my state who were issued lifetime credentials 15 or more years ago just had the "lifetime" part restricted. They are no longer "highly qualified" unless they take more training and/or test out.

We are a big district, and I have professional relationships across the district, my state, and out into other states. I've yet to find a teacher who isn't way beyond sick of NCLB.

[Southpaw Bookworm]

65. Does that script

Include time for student questions or discussion?

I have a feeling I already know the answer.

:nuke:

[LWolf]

70. It depends on what you consider discussion, I guess.

If you mean, am I supposed to ask them questions that require a short, quick answer, yes. If you mean, are they supposed to ask questions about the text themselves? Or, am I supposed to ask questions that would lead to thinking, debate, having to back up ideas with evidence, etc.? No. Fact based questions. No interpretive or evaluative questions.

That's not my idea of discussion. So I do it anyway, when no one is watching. I'm in a ratty old trailer; I can see when an administrator is coming up the ramp. As long as the teacher's manual/script is in my hand when they walk in the room, I can transition easily from the complex to the mind-numbingly dull. They are still getting the content.

In another district about 3 hours south of me, a teacher was "written up" because an administrator caught her singing a song to teach letter sounds instead of reciting the script in her teacher's manual about them. That was a couple of years ago.

At another school in my district last year, a real school building, a principal told his staff: "When I walk down the halls, I'd better hear the same thing coming from all the rooms at the same time." (All the rooms at a particular grade level.) No deviating from the script there. :shrug:

If any of this is going to change, we will have to hold the next administration's feet to the fire. We, meaning all of us. Parents and the rest of the voters, as well as teachers.

[ulysses]

42. ok, time to rant.

This is my first year as a teacher in the Atlanta public schools, coming in through an alternative certification program (I taught for five years previously in private schools).

I just got home from my Wednesday night cert classes. I got to school at 7:45 this morning. I teach learning disabled middle schoolers in a disadvantaged neighborhood downtown, which presents a range of challenges of which NO FUCKING POLITICIAN has dreamt. Now we get to worry about this shit.

OF COURSE NCLB SUCKS. An education law conceived by a goddamned nutcase Republican administration hostile to public education is going to suck by definition. For my kids, it adds a third strike against them - be born into poverty (usually without much parental support), have your brain develop a learning disability and then have your elected representatives, once you're of school age, essentially tell you to fuck off for political reasons. Make no mistake, my kids know what's going on.

Kerry thinks that NCLB just needs "tweaking"? No, John. You're turning our kids into political footballs, just like the fool in the White House is. I have had fucking ENOUGH of the pansy-assed shit from my party. If we, if YOU, care about these kids, you will deep-six NCLB and listen to what your nation's educators tell you about how to teach children.

NCLB hurts kids. Period. In that light alone, George W. Bush and his merry band of fuckwits can fuck off. Kerry has my vote this year, but if he gets into office and does nothing but fart around tweaking at the edges of NCLB, he can fuck off too.

[proud2BlibKansan]

47. NCLB was NOT conceived by Republicans

Time for a history lesson. I have taught since 1980, so this is my 25th year. I have witnessed the creation of this law. NCLB had its beginnings back in the early 80s when Reagan commissioned a report on U.S. education which was titled 'A Nation at Risk'. It was a scathing and very negative report detailing the failures of our schools.

After this report came out, all the bigwigs put together committees and task forces to study the problems. I worked on a couple task forces at the state and national level. After about 10 years of studying data, the NEA, AFT and several other national education groups worked with lawmakers to write a bill addressing the identified problems. Most of the recommendations made by educators were ignored (of course!) and the lawmakers proceeded to creat NCLB. Kennedy was part of the Senate committee that helped shape the final product. So were many other Democrats. The bulk of the work to create NCLB was done during Clinton's presidency. His educ secy, Richard Riley, was involved in the process.

Unfortunately, NCLB finally became law while Bush was prez. So he took a law which wasn't that great to start with and not only took credit for it, but has also royally screwed it up by not funding it appropriately.

So we are destined to have some kind of acountabilty plan for our schools. But as long as educators are left out of the process and our input is ignored, we get a shitty piece of legislation. And as long as Republicans are in control, we get a shitty law that doesn't get funded appropriately.

[ulysses]

48. ok, then.

NCLB is a titanic *bipartisan* fuckup.

[proud2BlibKansan]

49. Yes, it is a fuck up

and since Bush signed it into law, we can blame HIM for it.

:evilfrown:

[LWolf]

55. It is a bipartisan fuck-up.

I personally hold a deep anger for the democrats who participated, much more so than the republicans, who were at least true to their agenda. It's also true that the seeds were planted with "A Nation At Risk."

I don't know what Richard Riley, Kennedy, Clinton, etc. were working on; pre-bush, I was paying more attention to what states were doing.

It's true that NCLB got it's start before GWB got to the WH. It's also true that NCLB covers many areas, not just the testing and accountability piece. NCLB is the most recent revision of ESEA, which was enacted in 1965 with the goal of providing every child an equal opportunity to succeed in schools. It includes Title I, which provides guarantees to disadvantaged children, partially funded. It includes a lot more, too; the whole thing is here:

http://www.ed.gov/policy/elsec/leg/esea02/index.html

The standards/testing/accountability portion has become synonymous with the acronym because of the focus on punishment and mandates; privatization and top-down, politically controlled standardization; "raising" standards beyond what is reasonable or realistic; mis-using flawed standardized tests to measure the teachers/schools more than the students themselves; heavy emphasis on punishment; corrupt mathematics when it comes to the scores themselves; and more.

The "standards and accountability" portions of NCLB were first put into practice at the state level. As I said, I don't know what the feds were doing. I do know that some states began their own "raise the standards and threaten all the teachers with test scores; mandate the corporate text/program/materials, etc. of your personal corporate friends;" and more, about a decade ago. It happened in my state of CA under Pete Wilson, and was shamefully continued by Gray Davis. It happened in TX under GWB, and FL under Jeb. There are some other states with these early beginnings; I don't know whether their governors were repub or dem. I know about TX and FL because I've talked to teachers there. One who left a 20-year successful career; cashed in his retirement and went back to school to learn another trade before it even went federal.

When GWB got to the WH, he took his own state version with him...and federalized it. That's why some of us have 2 testing and accountability systems happening concurrently, with different corrupt formulas used on the same tests, and different mandates/punishments for the results. A double-whammy, so to speak. Ironically, FL has been hit hard by the dual punishment systems. And George is sure happy and proud to take credit for it, whatever work may have already been done.

Uly is right where a huge number of educators are. We want Bush out, and we're voting that way. If the new democratic admin continues the travesty of NCLB, we'll withdraw our support. We're on the front lines in the nations' classrooms every day. We see the effects every day. We live and breathe the reality.

The biggest letdown for me, personally, in the current election, outside of the war-like mentality of both sides, is the knowledge that I have to choose between two candidates who support the testing/accountability portion of NCLB. As long as that remains the status quo, hope is not on the way to America's classrooms, or to those of us who spend our lives in them.

[LibDemAlways]

50. Kids today don't learn how to think.

The "essay question," the bane of my generation, has all but ceased to exist in today's multiple-choice world. No one challenges kids to analyze, ponder, debate. It's all memorize and regurgitate.

I heard a story on the radio about business owners complaining that their employees can't write. Well, duh. Teachers are under such pressure to teach the test that kids are being cheated out of an education.

[phylny]

56. I totally disagree with such a blanket statement.

My kids are terrific writers - they've had teachers who've demanded the best of them.

In any event, the new SAT has an essay component.

[LibDemAlways]

61. Your kids are fortunate.

I have an 11-year-old. Every writing assignment she's been given in school has had "Good job" scrawled across the top without further comment. I taught English at the middle school level twenty years ago. I corrected my students' essays and stories, and insisted on rewrites and revisions for content and grammar/spelling. Today, in the "Blue Ribbon" school my daughter attends, that's not happening.
Instead, it's all about test scores.

[phylny]

66. Yes, I agree - my kids have been really fortunate

We've been in four different school systems throughout their academic careers and they've had superb teachers. We *do* shop school systems when we have to move, and have thus far been fortunate.

This is one of the reasons I'd like to see education paid for nationally instead of locally. Where you live and how education is funded is one of the variables that affects your children's education. Of course, there are many others, but we've been lucky enough to be able to live in places where education is a priority.

[callous taoboy]

58. I agree, plus

now that it is the end of the first 6 week grading period I have a whole other stress of making sure I get my 10 L.A. grades, 10 math grades, 6 science and S.S. grades. I find myself planning lessons more for getting a grade out of them then for any real educational purpose.

Ten days ago I got the class fired up about writing a humorous class story about our pet hissing cockroach. They were very excited. But writing well is a process that I want to take slowly with them so that they "get it." No grades there, though. I've had to abandon this for now and grind through the basal reader to scrounge for my required ten L.A. grades. Where does this shit end and learning begin?

[Only Me]

51. OK...I am not going to be popular when I say this...but it's my experience

in my small area. I live in a school district extremely poor, poorest in my state. Our school seems to get teachers, not all but more than a few, that can't get placed elsewhere. We have teachers that go out of their way to put the students first. But we have too many that act as thought it is a place to come because they've no place better to be.
I am not just saying this...I live here, I know what kind of people we had in our classrooms. NCLB has alot of issues, but it is not a total flop. Not all schools have/had the same level of quality teaching that some of the other posters had.

I will be frank, we had kids that teachers didn't bother with anymore. My son has ADHD couldn't get the teachers to hardly give him the time of day...But now that the students must be taught to atleast a minimum standard and the teachers must maintain their teaching skills, it has made a world of difference.. My ADHD kid tested second highest in the state on his Literature SOL's. That has translated in to A's in regular English scores two years in arow.
In my area, I know our schools were failing our children. If the schools continued to fail to teach, then the school didn't recieve anymore funding. And in our school this is what it has took...
Schools are ran like a business. Not like an facility to educate. Our county paid it's teacher less than any other county in the state and didn't even do back ground checks. So we got what we paid for and less in my opinion.
Some teachers still complain that they hate to teacher to a test, and some are greatful they get kids they know were atlease taught enough to pass a test. My son's eighth grade teacher said she got kids in a few years ago that couldn't read past a second grade level. It made her job harder and the catch-up harder on the student. The is still a huge problem in this country with to many kids dropping out of school because they don't know enough to be able to stay in it and complete the work. So it's not a total failure everywhere.

Just my opinion and my personal experience.

[recidivist]

53. I live in a city with 30%-plus adult illiteracy.

This is Washington, D.C., not southern California or Texas where a massive immigrant population accounts for this dismal situation. Our adult illiterates are overwhelmingly American born and the products of one of the most expensive (on an expenditure per pupil basis) in the country.

In far too many places, including here, there has been a massive failure to educate. This is typically masked by a culture of social promotion, so parents don't get upset by their kids being held back. After a generation of this, we have a social disaster on our hands.

Is high stakes testing a solution? Not by itself, but when a school system has collapsed as completely as has ours, it's certainly better than the status quo. Yes, there are heroic teachers and principals scattered around the city, but the system as a whole is bankrupt. How else are we going to even BEGIN to enforce accountability unless we test?

Part of the problem is the mindless equalitarianism that ties school systems in knots. Kids are different, families and communities are different, schools need to be different. I will readily grant that there are healthy schools and school districts out there that don't need the external discipline of mandated testing. But in the hyper-politicized climate of today, heaven help any administrator or politician who dares suggest that inner city schools be singled out for "punitive" measures or that performance standards be realistically adjusted to reflect student quality. We end up with inner city schools being asked to meet statewide standards that, given the kids they have to work with, they have no chance of achieving unless the standards are hopelessly dumbed down. The only answer I see to that problem is radical decentralization, which brings us right back to school choice and vouchers.

As it stands now, testing is a response to a public school culture that (in far too many places) accepts nonperformance and contentedly churns out illiterates year after year after decade. High stakes testing may be a clumsy tool, but it is at least a first step towards accountability. Remember, the tests are already grotesquely simple and the threshold to pass is low. The fact that huge percentages of students struggle to make the grade is primarily a reflection of the educational disaster we face, not an indictment of the test.

[callous taoboy]

59. Accountability within reason:

It's all I ask, oh plus a little support from the district and the community to help bring our class sizes down to a manageable level.

[Southpaw Bookworm]

69. And that ain't the half of it

When you're living in an environment where education isn't valued, where you don't get enough healthy food or sleep, where there aren't any books at home and no sober adult to read them to you, where you need to work 8 hours in the evenings to help support your family, where you have to babysit your little brothers and sisters while your parents go off to their second job of the day, where you have to wonder if today will be the day daddy makes good on his threats to blow mommy's head off, where your parent has to decide between going to the doctor and paying the electricity, where your evening lullabies are gunshots and screaming arguments, where the garbage burning facility causes asthma . . . what chance do you have of succeeding at a standardized test?

[Corgigal]

57. another point of view

As a parent of a special ed kid I actually use NCLB to get the services he needs. I have no other choice and I know it's wrong.
My son has central auditory processing disorder but his IQ is within normal range. All the kid needs is a little extra time to be sure his brain gets the right information. However since the whole education process is geared to minute by minute lesson plans he can get left behind pretty quickly if we aren't vigilant.

I have asked for tutoring but like most school districts they claim they have NO money. However if he fails the statewide exam then they have a special fund set aside for tutoring. Now what am I suppose to do? If he doesn't get tutoring he starts to fail in English and Science, if he does get tutoring then his report card shows C's or possibly B's. I know the school system and even the educators are being screwed in the process if he fails but I really have NO other choice. Schools think short term, what will that yearly testing report contain. I don't think that way. I think long term with my child because if he keeps on grade level he has a better chance of success. Trust me educators, I would like to place him in a school that works with these types of kids but we only have one school in this area its over 50 minutes drive each way and costs over 12,000 grand a year. This is in SC where hardly anyone can afford it.

I think NCLB also makes parents vs educators. I doubt many of my son's teachers are happy to have him on their list. I do admit I do like this patch of teachers this year.

So much is based on this one test that if parents are smart enough we can use it for our own kid. I don't think this law was intend to work this way.

[callous taoboy]

60. Plus,

the test relies on one raw score with no margin of error, thus assuming itself to be a flawless instrument to measure growth and also assuming that the child was in perfect form the day he/she took the test. I hope that sentence made sense. Gotta run.

[DebinTx]

63. My 2 cents

My son was a junior in Texas last year. His class was to be the first senior class that required passage of TASP test to graduate (try explaining why if he didn't pass the test, his course grades and credits meant absolutely nothing - no pass, no graduate). His class will be almost 600 students, so they had a meeting with parents about how to prepare for the test. Out of all of those kids, 34 parents showed up. Now what's that say?

TASP covers math, science, English, and social studies with a portion of the English test devoted to writing an essay on a selection of topics. (I went online and took a practice test in social studies and scored a 60!) Needless to say, I was extremely worried when I attended that meeting with the school.

The principal explained that the TASP test was written to exactly coincide with the state's grade level expectations. For instance, if you're a normal sophomore, you should have taken geometry by your junior year, so when tested as a junior, the test included geometry questions but not algebra II questions.

When parents balked at the thought of teachers teaching to the test, he explained that if the class work was on schedule, the student had a much better chance of passing and he was correct. No more will teachers be spending time at the beginning of the year to review - there's no time for that anymore.

You mention that your district uses the Iowa test - Texas doesn't use that, they've opted to write their own test written by guess who? The teachers throughout the state. The average passing rate for the state was around 80%, our kids passed at 86%. Maybe this is a tact that could be used in your state.

[DaveSZ]

67. Didn'tTed Kennedy help write this law?

[Fleshdancer]

68. I graduated from a TX HS in 1995...

and while we weren't under the NCLB crap, passing the TASP test was definitely necessary to move up to the next level. My school prided itself on its high test scores but the problem I had with that as a student is that if it wasn't covered on a standardized test, then I wasn't going to learn it.

I was grossly unprepared for college. Critical thinking skills were never stressed. Understanding the material was never stressed...just memorization.

I do agree with you that parent participation is a must. I can't comprehend not taking my child's education seriously enough to attend one freakin' meeting about the TASP test. However, standardized tests, in my opinion, does a great disservice to the concept of teaching and learning.