Successful Socialist Democracy: Sweden

[Lucky Luciano]

I once got into a heated debate here on DU when I suggested that a socialistic society is much better if it is created by evolution instead of revolution. Since it was when I first arrived, I really took some heat from the more radical left fringes here, but I still stand by that statement, because political systems that evolve have much longer staying power nad the concepts are engrained in the culture rather than having a confusing instant transofrmation that not everyone can warm up to right away. Here is my friend's brief report along with his pessimistic view that we could not replicate this in the US - I agree that replicating this in the US would be very difficult and would take at least a 100 years if it ever could happen. Four more years of b*sh and it could take 200 years or may never even occur:

stockholm sweden is one of the most beautiful cities i've ever been to -- and i'm not only talking about the buildings and the geography. the city is actually an archipelago of thousands of islands. and the standard of living is so high (and prices too) that the majority of the population has a second home on these islands accessible only by boat for the few months when the summer is in full force. the weather was sunny and warm when we arrived - it is probably one of the best places in europe to spend a summer - looking out at the baltic sea from a summer home on an island with no roads for cars.
on average everything there is exceptional. on average i mean people are well educated, all speak english very well, and that there are not a large group of poor people or a large group of really rich either. it's a true socialist democracy thus if you didn't work you would survive ok...but if you worked your ass off you would do pretty well - but would probably not reach the extremest of wealth or poverty. of course there are super rich (the ikea, volvo, and erickson barons) but even they live close to the regular people and there is no such thing as a gated community or armed security around. from what i hear only the royal family and the PM has security teams. i don't know many other places where this system could work - definitely not the US.

last but not least, on average - all the girls are HOT! i mean nordic, real blond and blue eyes hot. it was pretty outstanding. of course some were hotter than others, but i did not see one really ugly person in my entire time in the city. it probably had something to do with the fact that there are no fat people there either. anyway, i practically got wiplash just looking around.

[Bjornsdotter]

1. LOL....

....glad you had a good time! Shhhh, yes it does work there and we are trying to keep that a secret.

You've made me homesick....sniff.

Cheers,
Kim :toast:

[Kanary]

2. My cynical view is that it's much more likely to happen sooner if there

are 4 more years of *.

By that time, so many more people will have been knocked out of the muddleclass, and I doubt they will be trying as hard to hide the criminality, so many more people will be looking for solutions -- and the solutions they wouldn't have accepted when they were comfortable will then be more appealing.

Remember what happened during the Great Depression?

It's up to those of us who see the benefits to start overcoming the prejudice.

Kanary

[Lucky Luciano]

3. Maybe you are right,

because things have to get far worse here for the more mainstream Americans to realize that a society like Sweden's could be better for all of us. Who better to make things far worse than W? Maybe there is a silver lining if W gets re-selected. This of course, assumes he does not create a totalitarian regime by declaring martial law if something were to happen. Then all bets are off because too many fools would be entranced by his fearmongering.

[Kanary]

4. This is one case where I'd like to be wrong. :(

However, I think this country has become too affluent, and too calllous. Although, I think a lot of that callousness was brought here by the original settlers.

Also, remember the very poor will be the first to die, and will be invisible..... that's been happening, happened under Reagan and also Clinton, and got no notice. So, the first part will be a lot of silent deaths. I guess that could be a "silver lining", but certainly not for the dead ones.

As for totalitarian......... there's also a "silver lining" to that. Maybe that's what it will take to wake people up to the reality of living in a "democracy", and what it takes to insure that democracy continues to live. A lot of citizens take so much for granted. If they lost it ALL, maybe it would not only affect their own thinking, and that of their children, but maybe it would be so horrendous that they would be sure that each succeeding generation *KNOWS* they are responsible for the country.

Isn't that a fine pass we've come to????

Kanary

[sweetheart]

5. end corporate personhood

It could happen quite quickly in the US were a true reformer put
in to the whitehouse. Its unlikely until the corporates stop bribing
the system and removing the people from that process.

America has not yet had its "french revolution", that most older
societies in europe have had. I'm not up on swedish history, but
france and england have both had peasant revolts that have made them
lands of the people in their wake. Until america has its peasant
revolt, serfdom calls.

Likely it will happen after the old lady has fallen from grace, when
the dollar is 1:1 with the yen, when the government is bankrupt and
has to turn towards its citizens to say "mea culpa" and lets start
over. Think of how fast russia went bankrupt and collapsed. The
US could fold similarly in a few years given more bushavik fear lust.