Why Do Many (Converted) Muslims Change Their Names?

[arwalden]

Are names really that important... are they less-Islamic if they have an unapproved name?

I've often heard that many prisoners convert to the Islamic faith. Is this true? Do Muslims aggressively proselytize and actively seek to convert people in the same way that, say, JW's do?

"Islam" is the faith... so are the followers properly described as being "Muslim", or "Moslem", or "Islamic"?

-- Allen

[sniffa]

1. as for the name

it's because they are proud of their new faith and want the worLd to know. changing your name symboLizes ensLaving yourseLf to god.

as for prison i can onLy offer guesses.

[libertad]

4. See the movie Malcolm X w/ Denzel Washington, they actively

sought recruits to Islam within the prison system.

[sniffa]

7. but that's different

NOI (a cuLt) and isLam are 2 different things.

some converts take isLam because it makes sense - it guides them away from a Life of crime.

[H2O Man]

23. Not true

the NOI was not a cult. It was a branch of Islam that was outside of the mainstream in the 1960s, but that has since become far more mainstream under Wallace Muhammad.

[sniffa]

25. i know

most cuLts hate being caLLed cuLts.

[H2O Man]

27. While that could be true

it has nothing to do with this discussion. I'm not a member of the NOI, and never have been. However, I have some background with the NOI and with cults through decades of employment in human services. My comment was not a defensive one at all. I was merely pointing out that you erred in calling the NOI a cult.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

2. You know, when Jim McGuinn of the Byrds took up the Subud,

the Indonesian sect he was informed that to restore harmony to his existence, he would have to change his first name to Roger.

[Fenris]

19. I wonder why it was Roger?

[Screaming Lord Byron]

3. Doesn't Islam mean 'surrender' and muslim 'self-surrenderer'?

I believe that's it.

[DrWeird]

13. It meants "to submit your self to God."

'Surrender" in the penitent sense of the word.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

5. In the movie Malcolm X

Malcolm explains that its because his current name is an extension of a slave-owner name. The African name is long gone -- so in a sense why be enslaved by the name?

I don't know much about it (as you can tell by my referencing a movie). But i think in the case of name changes there are rationale that transcend merely religious bounds.

Regardless, its an interesting question.. Perhaps other examples of this phenomena are in, for example, Vietnamese immigrants (many being Catholic and politically conservative) taking upon themselves and their children "American names" (often Biblical in nature). These "American names" aren't their "only names", they also have "Vietnamese" (or "real" names).

I think its important to understand cultures of the world, inssomuch that we can "understand" culture. This can only help us in making valuable friends and allies in the world, as well as identifying and understanding our enemies.

[Maddy McCall]

8. That's Nation of Islam...

different from fundamental Islam.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

9. ah

see i told you i was stupid.

[arwalden]

11. The Bow-Tie Black Suit Guys?

Is that the one that Louis Farrakhan is the leader of? They always struck me as being a bit odd. (Not their beliefs, just their behavior... a bit anti-social, and paranoid.)

-- Allen

[LiberalVoice]

41. No worries.

Their beliefs are odd(If looking at it from a traditional Islamic PoV)

[Dorian Gray]

21. I know that they are different....

Islam doesn't recognize NoI as being Islamic. At all. Someone upthread, however, said that Nation of Islam is a cult. (I know you didn't say it, jchild. But, I was wondering if those who know more about NoI could explain how it might be cultish. Thanks!

[DrWeird]

22. A cult is just a small religion.

Mormonism was a cult, now it's becoming a major world religion.

I don't know how many members the Nation of Islam has. It was a cult at one time, with Elijah Mohammed as the leader. But I don't know how far it's proliferated today. There's no nice and easy line to say when a cult becomes a religion.

I'm not sure, either, what you mean by "Islam doesn't recognize the NoI as being Islamic." Islam doesn't have a central bureacracy like the Vatican. If I'm not mistaken I believe NoI members believe in the five pillars, go on the Haj, and pray to Mecca five times a day. Which seems to make them Islam as any christian denomination are still christian.

[Dorian Gray]

28. You are right about the definition of cult

But a poster upthread used it in, what I took to be, a negative connotation. So, though I agree with you (that NoI is a valid religion), I was curious as to why that poster would assert that it is a "cult" in a derogatory way. And, I am sorry if I misinterpreted his intent.

Also, many religious Muslims consider Nation of Islam not to be Islamic. I don't know why. I think that it has something to do with their belief in Jesus as more than just a prophet, which non-Nation of Islam Muslims reject.

Here's a link explaining some of the differences:

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/notislam/

Another link that denies Nation of Islam is not Islam:

http://www.muhajabah.com/noi.htm


Now, I am not Muslim. I consider Nation of Islam to be Islamic. I have no problem with that. But, this is the same argument regarding Mormonism and Christianity. Are they Christians? Are they not? Many Christians would say no, while Mormons would insist that they are. I can only answer from my own subjective point of view.

So, my intent was not to bash Nation of Islam. My only intent was to state that SOME Muslims do not consider Nation of Islam to be truly Islamic because of some conflicts in belief. To reiterate, I do not necessarily believe that, myself.

[H2O Man]

26. Not true.

In the 1960s, Middle Eastern religious leaders were not pleased with Elijah Muhammad's distorted teachings. However, Wallace was schooled in traditional Islamic teachings, and even before taking over the NOI leadership, had moved towards mainstream Islam.

It's important to understand that Islam, like Christianity, does not have one central authority. It hasn't since WW1. Thus, there is no person who can say that the NOI is not Islam, any more than one Christian church can say that another Christian church is not Christian.

The NOI did many good works in the late 1950s and early '60s. A person can recognize that Elijah was an odd character, but still admire things such as the NOI work with drug addicts, and Muhammad Ali's struggle with the draft.

[Dorian Gray]

29. thank you

for your information. I just looked up a bit more about NoI. Very interesting history!

[Maddy McCall]

33. According to the sociological criteria of cults, yes, it would be a cult..

but so would many other accepted religions in the US, such as Pentacost.

[H2O Man]

35. to say that there is

a "sociological criteria" ignores several things: first, that there are about as many sociological perspectives as there are religions; and second, the definition of the word.... I am assuming that we are all talking about "cults" in the current context. If we were to go to the original meaning of the word, "cultus," then every religion and indeed form of teaching is a cult. I was assuming that we were not being ridiculous, however, or trying to marginalize any group of peoples' religion. The NOI is not a cult, nor are religious groups such as the Pentacosts.

[Maddy McCall]

38. Well, let me ask you this...

By which criteria are you determining the Nation and Pentacosts NOT to be cults? I'd like to see that.

[H2O Man]

24. NOI is one branch

It was less "main stream" under Elijah, but is absolutely "fundamental" under Wallace.

[pagerbear]

6. I changed my name when I became Episcopalian

It wasn't WASPy enough before.

[kimchi]

10. Probably the same reason most Pagans use another name

around other Pagans--as a sign that they belong to the group, and to honor God/dess. Only we don't normally take the name as our legal name. You think someone with the last name Islam is watched carefully! What do you think the reaction would be if someone called your name over the loudspeaker in the airport "Paging Lilith Moonlight Rainbow". Just kidding, I think.

I believe they prefer the term "Moslem", but don't broadcast that until you get a few more sources.;)

[DrWeird]

12. A follower of Islam is a muslim. Or a moslem.

Same thing.

They are not Islamists, or Islamites, or Islamishters, or Islamistanis.

Some muslims groups seek converts in prisons. So do plenty of christians groups. I believe I read somewhere that Florida was building a christian only prison. The Nation of Islam looked for converts in prisons because it was a good source of angry black men who were disenfranchised with popular American culture, including Christianity, due to the perception, rightly or wrongly, that they were being mistreated by the justice system.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

15. to add the are also not mohammedians

[BlackVelvetElvis]

47. Ugh. I hate that term.

I see that in some older texts and it is so disrepectful to Islam.
That gets all over me in a bad way.

[Fookin_A]

30. Some Good Comes Of It

Many African Americans in prison have converted to Islam and it has been a positive experience for them and the country.

[PsychoDad]

14. Changing one's name, and other questions.

Firstly, I'd say it's tradition. Part of embracing a deen (lifestyle) dedicated to submission to God, part of your rebirth into the Islamic faith.

It's not mandatory, but many do it anyway. Sometimes to identify themselves as muslim, sometimes to remind them of the qualities of a prophet or companion to Muhammid that they would like to exemplify.

The word Islam comes from the root Salaam, or peace. It is the act of seeking peace within one's self and one's world through total submission to God. the prefix "mu" is one who does or practices, so mu-slam or muslim means, one who practices Islam.

The correct term is Muslim. Islamist makes as much sense as Christianist, Wiccanist or Jewishist. :silly:

[TexasSissy]

16. I'm committed to environmental issues, so.....

should I change my name to tell the world about my commitment? To help me understand that I need to "surrender myself" to my calling?

How 'bout GreenieSissy? Or TreehuggySissy? PlanetEarthSissy? Hmmmm. Nice ring to that one.

[DrWeird]

17. Sounds like you're mocking the practice.

Are you?

[Bridget Burke]

18. I got my name when I was baptised....

And yet another name when I was confirmed. My parents picked the first one, I selected the second. That's the Roman Catholic way...

Muslim & Moslem are just different "English" spellings of the same word. "Muslim" sounds more like the word I've heard Muslims use.

Islam is a rich & fascinating faith, with much information available on the Web. Check out the Sufis--members of various mystical schools, they sometimes had problems with the more orthodox. Al Hallaj was crucified in Baghdad, Rabia of Basra was a slave (& a woman), and Rumi mourned the death of his lover in poems that are still read today.

[Sufi Marmot]

20. Certainly not all of them do...

...and some people would argue that adopting an Arabic (not Muslim) name is simply indulging in the superficial trappings of a foreign culture while perhaps missing the deeper spirituality of the religion.

-SM

[athena]

31. Your name has to be in the Koran.

That's what I've heard. If you have a name that's not a name or a word in the Koran, then you don't go to heaven. I don't know if it's just a superstition or if it's written down somewhere.

[chookie]

32. The significance of name changes

People who have conversion experiences are assigned new names relevant to their new faith as a outward manifestation of their new identity as one transformed by faith. It is particularly important when a language is held to be sacred, as is Sanskrit and Arabic and Hebrew, in the Hindu and Muslim and Jewish faiths. Religious families traditionally give their children sacred names; if one was not born to such a faith, and later embraces it, converts change their secular name to one with sacred significance.

The name signifies their new identity as an adherent of that faith. It is often chosen for them by their mentor, sponsor or guru, and is supposed to confer special blessings or dedication to their new faith. By adopting a "foreign" name, they are demonstrating that they are a member of another kind of community, that of worshippers.

[Cleita]

34. Probably for the same reason Christian converts do.

It identifies them as Christians. I have known Native Americans, who have taken the name of the priest who converted and baptized them as a family name and saints' names as a protective patron. It's considered better to have a patron saint in addition to your appointed by God guardian angel. For this reason Spanish names are so prevalent in the Southwest among various Native American people.

I don't know what the exact purpose is among Muslims but I think it might be something similar, considering Mohammed and Fatima are very popular names. Perhaps because the protection of the prophet and of his wives or other prominent muslims is sought by using their names.

[Lost147]

36. I never like the idea of changing your name

I just don't like it, I don't care why well unless its witness protection or something but I just don't think its something people should do. My name was given to me at birth, I shouldn't be able to choose something else. bah its hard to explain... maybe its just because I like my name and can't fathom the idea of not going by it.

[Cleita]

37. I agree with you. It took me years to start using my husband's

name when I got married. But sometimes convention is too hard to buck and quite honestly I had some real battles I preferred to expend my energy on, so I eventually succumbed to using my married name for the sake of simplifying things legally.

However, this post was about why people take different names because of religion and I was offering a possible explanation.

[Bridget Burke]

43. Anyone has a legal right to change their name...

As long as fraud is not the purpose; that is, no stealing somebody else's. And one really ought to inform one's creditors, etc.

Officially, I didn't get my name at birth--I got it at baptism. Of course, this wasn't long after my birth--the Roman Catholics sprinkle 'em young. One chooses another name at Confirmation, which is generally just kept in reserve.

In some traditional cultures, one is given a secret name & a childhood name. At puberty, another may be chosen. After all, who can really pick the best name for an adult by looking at a little baby?

Many women still choose to change their last names at marriage; many choose to revert to their maiden names at divorce. Even Miss Manners says this is just a matter of personal choice, not social rules. Rather, the social rule "what name does the lady prefer?" governs the form of address.

[Yupster]

39. A website suggestion

www.askimam.com

It's a site where Islamic religious scholars answer questions.

There's thousands of answers arranged by topic. Sort of like a religious Dear Abby.

Lots of the questions are from Muslims living in the west and trying to find out what is acceptable to do in the west without compromising their religion.

Lots of questions like if I'm married in Pakistan but living in America, do I have to tell my Pakistani wife if I want to marry an American? That kind of stuff.

[foo_bar]

46. wow

Q: As a youth, I experience difficulty in determing whether or not taking a bath is compulsory in the following situation: a) Remember having seen a dream, but there is no wetness, b) No dream but there is wetness.
A: The wetness may be either Mani (sperm) or Mazi (pre-coital fluid). For purposes of convenience, we enumerate the different possibilities hereunder with the rulings (Shaami vol.1 pg.168; HM Saeed; Tahtawi pg.54; Qadeemi):
Wetness Dream Ruling
1. Mani Dream Ghusl Waajib
2. Mazi Dream Ghusl Waajib

...

http://www.islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=12755

[LiberalVoice]

40. Take it from someone who was raised muslim by a father in prison.

he himself had converted over 100 prisoners before I broke off contact with him. Then again he was El-Sayed Nosair(Google The Name).

btw, it's pronounced Muslim. :)

[Aidoneus]

42. Kahane's off'er?

don't know much else about Abu LiberalVoice, but he did the world a favour there. Growing up must have been an interesting.. :hi:

[LiberalVoice]

45. If you only knew...

:shrug:

[LynnTheDem]

44. How come nuns and monks etc change their names?

Are names really that important...are they less Christian if they have an unapproved name?