Something creeped me out today...

[LiberalVoice]

I was having a conversation with a woman at a convenience store in an upper-middle class suburb of pittburgh. The convo turned to politics and I asked her, "What do you think about Bush?". Before she even answered I could see her face turn to one of worry as she struggled to find a way to say "I think it's time for a change." for fear of angering me if I were pro-Shrub.

Does anyone remember the last time people were sincerely afraid of revealing they were for or against someone. I'm only 21 and have never seen this type of thing before.

I ask you this. How free is a country who's people refrain from speaking their minds, for fear of being harrassed/abused by someone with an opposing opinion.

If we aren't sheep, then we are nothing.

[donheld]

1. Maybe after talking to someone like you

this woman will feel more empowered to speak freely. Good Job

:yourock:

[LiberalVoice]

9. I hope so.

[A_Possum]

2. I was never worried about it until 2000

It was starting in 2000 that it became something that you had to fear would start an unpleasant exchange in which you were dismissed or ridiculed.

But no, before that, never did I feel it was an issue. The past 10 years have been a big change, since Gingrich/DeLay and friends brought spite and bile and ugliness to new heights.

[SeekingTruth]

3. Dean picture...

I love that picture of Dean on the subway....loved it in Rolling Stone and wish I had kept that issue...that photo says so much...

[LiberalVoice]

5. Yeah I know...

I think I'm gonna keep it their forever. lol

[RoyGBiv]

4. I've noticed the same thing...

Even in myself, and no, I've never experienced it before. I feel shame at times for feeling that way.

I live in a heavily Republican area, or at least heavily conservative, but then I always have. I had no qualms about my Dukakis or Clinton or Gore bumper stickers. This year, before I put my Kerry sticker on, I imagined broken windows and slashed tires and threats while driving. I checked my insurance to see if I would be covered for acts of vandalism. I even considered whether my employer would complain about having a car with a Kerry sticker on it in the parking lot -- at least until I realized the CEO of my company is a personal friend of JK.

I watch myself before speaking because I have had violent reactions to my criticisms of Bush. Truly bizarre.

Probably some of the same stuff happened in the '68 and '72 campaigns. I mean, people then did die for protesting the war. But, I wasn't around for those.

[LiberalVoice]

7. I look at it this way.

Everyone can kiss my ass....Now that may not be PC enough for sum but it suits me just fine. If you don't like my opinion prove me wrong with logic/ Otherwise, shut the fuck up.

[Vickers]

18. Bwahahahaha! Like I wrote it myself!

:toast:

I have gotten VERY confrontational in my conversations. I REFUSE to back down ONE FUCKING INCH, and lemme tellya, that bugs the living SHIT out of some folks, but you know what? They DO back down when you start putting the facts in their face.

Fuck the "flies with honey" talk, most of these folks wouldn't vote for Kerry if they saw Georgie masturbating on the Bible with their own eyes, so at least I can make them uncomfortable and defensive in a public setting.

[LiberalVoice]

41. Exactly

Most of the people still voting for * will do so no matter what you tell them. They are so brainwashed by the media they can't even see the truth around them in real life. Fuckem' I say.

I had one guy say this, "I see homosexuals on the same line with, pedo's and rapists." Can you fucking believe that shit!?!? I mean how stupid and unable to comprehend simple logic can you be? Thats the kind of person that repeats whatever they hear and don't need to know if it's true or not. You won't change them, they're too stupid.

[Eloriel]

27. Congratulations. You're doing exactly what they want.

They WANT you to shut up.

And no, I don't think anything like this happened in '68 and '72. The country was horribly, horribly divided over the war, it's true. Families were torn apart by the discord. But I don't recall any violence or threat of violence against you if you just voiced your opinion to your neighbor, nor any concerted effort to exert power (the threat of violence) to stifle the views of half the population.

Edited to add a quote from Harry Belafonte, who was asked how to deal with political repression:

Do not submit. It is extremely critical that repression be met head on and that it be resisted with every fiber in our being. There is absolutely no compromise that can be made with it. As a matter of fact, compriomise is what oppression feeds on. Without compromise it would be defeated.

I don't mean to be too hard on you about this, but I think it's important that their repression of our views and our RIGHT to voice our views not work for them. Every time it does, they are emboldened and empowered.

[RoyGBiv]

33. Excuse me, but ...

No one here is submitting to anyone or anything.

But to be perfectly frank about this, it's senseless to start an argument at work or on the street with some random stranger just to make some sort of point about what I can do. If "they" start it, that's another thing entirely.

My remarks are more a reflection of a mental awareness of the increased hostility of the opposition. I do have that bumper sticker, and I do not avoid airing my opinion in situations that warrant it.

[PittLib]

6. My dem stepmom actually whispered ...

"Are you voting for who I'm voting for?" into the phone and hesitantly, I might add. Like there was any question. I'm the one who told her Lutheran minister father how much I respected Ellen Degeneres, and muttered an incredulous "fuckin' republicans!" to a table full of them at Thanksgiving.

[LiberalVoice]

8. Sweet!

My mom is the same way though. She hasn't voted since she voted for Carter and she is so afraid of speaking her views and even more so afraid something may happen to me cuz she knows I won't back down when some asshole shrub lover says something.

[the Kelly Gang]

10. scary but I bet there is sooo many out there like her and it is why

John Kerry will be President by Christmas !

[DemBones DemBones]

11. I was afraid a lot from 1968 until the war ended.

I knew that there were people who hated me for being against the war, for being young, for having long hair (even though I'm female -- you wouldn't believe how opposed to long hair some people were back then!)

Today, I'm afraid of the same type of people. Gingrich et al. brought in a new era but there were haters earlier. There is simply something wrong with people who hate others based on appearance or even on differences in opinion.

When anyone is our country is afraid to speak his or her mind, we are not really free.

[ComerPerro]

12. I usually avoid telling people what I think of Bush

Its something I would rather not get into. I can restrain myself from a shouting match, but many of my relatives, for example, can't.

[Swamp Rat]

13. HA! I love it when someone asks me that question.

I respond VERY loudly: "THROW HIS ASS OUT!!!"

[TexasLady]

14. i see it in my two nephews who went to Iraq

last january. I was able to talk to them a few times a week on yahoo messebger. they werent allowed to disclose their exact location to me, but were able to let me know they were safe.

Each one has already had their two week leave to come back here this past summer. when they left in jan, one supported bush, one did not. the one who did not, the one i am closest to, had changed soo much when he came home for leave. he didnt talk much, seemed like he had aged a lifetime, and was no longer the happy kid i remembered. i havent heard from him since his leave. the other nephew seems to have changed his views of support as well.

everyone but me and one other aunt support bush in our family. you can just tell that these boys(to me they are boys, 19 and 21) feel one way, and are told to feel another. by their CIC, their families, and im sure every day people from here in tx. what i am waiting for, is when they FINALLY get home, and feel they can freely talk to the aunts that support THEM, and not the wacko in office. IF they can get home safe and sound in the first place!

i never see them online anymore. I havent seen em online in months now.

GOD i want my country back!

[annabanana]

17. We are ALL praying for your nephew's safe return

and working to keep more kids from having to go into harm's way.

And, Welcome to DU
:toast:

[progressivebydesign]

36. Every child, nephew, niece, grandchild, friend of a DUer...

.. who is called up in Iraq or Afghanistan, is part of OUR family, too. I'm sending the best thoughts for your nephews in Iraq. I look forward to reading your post when they are both home, safe and sound. You're a wonderful aunt.

[TexasLady]

38. thanks so very much

i posted a link to them about a year ago...then had to change servers and also names...cause i no longer had the email..

that sure means a lot, thank u:). and they are wonderful boys who need to be HOME!

[progressivebydesign]

40. I remember them from last year...

.. They're lucky to have a wonderful aunt! Keep us posted when you hear from them! :grouphug:

[radfringe]

15. my partner and I had to switch vehicles this week

I needed her truck to do some hauling after work, my car has several bumper stickers on it for Kerry, anti-bush etc...

my partner was worried about driving the car for fear of the possibility of being attacked or otherwise assaulted

she fears this worse than a terra-attack

[oregon_dem1]

16. That's terrible!

It looks like I have it easy. I live in an area where Kerry stickers/signs are everywhere and people proudly wear campaign buttons.

I talked to a 20 year old college student the other day and he said that here he was scared to admit that he liked Bush. In one day, he had three people come to the door (separately) doing canvassing for Kerry. By the way, despite his support of Bush; he still believes that it's time for a change due to our lack of good standing with the rest of the world.

Keep working...It's going to pay off in November!!!

[Jeff in Cincinnati]

24. That's not an unreasonable fear...

People who are basically unable to respond intellectualy and logically to what the perceive to be a challenge (i.e., your bumper stickers) will often lash out physically. That could be at the objects themselves (how many Democrats have had their cars keyed for sporting liberal messages) or at the individual who is associated with them.

Hard-Core Conservative Republicans are mentally and emotionally incapable of conducting a civilized debate -- in part because of their own fears that they will be publicly humiliated or (worse yet) persuaded that the other side might be right.

[izzie]

19. I hear few people talking. That is odd even in Maine.

One women said we had to get that crack pot out of the White House and she shocked me as she could not have known who I was for. All I asked was did she have any new political books and she said yes and she read them all. Then the thing about the crack pot. She was college educated as her job means she has that type education. When Clinton was running every one here was talking about it.

[Justice]

20. This is So True

I saw a man recently at the theater wearing a Kerry button, and immediately thought wow - is he brave. Then I thought, wow, I am ashamed of myself.

[Quahog]

21. I understand the feeling

Here in RI, Kerry supporters outnumber bushistas three to one. But that one bush* supporter is feared. I have Kerry and DU stickers on my truck, but I'm not fool enough to have anything identifying me as a Dem on my motorcycle. It would be just like some rethug crackpot to risk a manslaughter charge to take out a commie fag America-hating al-Qaeda sympathizing terrist librul like myself.

[LizW]

22. People are very afraid to speak out

when they perceive they are in the minority. It's especially true where I live, in the south. No one wants conflict, and you can be sure to get it if you speak against Bush.

But I find that when I talk to people one on one, and start the conversation with issues rather than Bush himself, people mostly agree that things aren't going well, and they are willing to express their worry and fear about where we're headed.

[jjohnson]

23. The Brainwashing worked!

Since, 1776, and especially since the WAR in Nam, people have been taught that speaking against the President during a time of war is an act of treason. Since 9/11 we have all had the same idealogy shoved down our throats, but it has been coupled with a very sick call for fascism, in the Nazi sense of the term. Regardless of what people say and do, we (the US as a nation) is very much a fascist state, even if we are not yet a military state. Although I fear we move more that direction with each passing moment. I hope we have not waited too long to recognize the problem, but I honestly believe that Bush could throw up ghettos and concentration camps (Guantanomo Bay, f'rinstance) and a great Majority of the people would blindly allow it to happen. I actually hate to compare bush to Hitler, but I do it to express a point regarding the complacency of the American people, and besides, the parallels are too obvious to ignore!
No, we are not all sheep! Sheep are led, to blindly follow the rod and offer no resistance. I refuse to accept that role!

[notadmblnd]

25. we talked about this in our meeting last night

I attended a Michigan for Kerry volunteer meeting at the local union hall. Many of us there seemed to think that there are a lot of people that have turned against bush but are afraid to express it.

We as Kerry supporters must be more visible to the public, wear you Kerry buttons and put your bumper stickers on your cars, If people see them they'll strike up a conversation.

[SammyWinstonJack]

26. I wouldn't have been afraid to say bush* sucks

Or a better response would be, "Not much!" And I live in bush* country. :eyes:

[LisaLynne]

28. My grandmother ...

who hates Bush is always telling me I shouldn't speak out or write letters because then "they" will have my name. I'm a realist and I certainly don't have any illusions that our country would never come to the point of locking up people with opposing views. If it's happened in other countries, it can happen here. We're all just flawed humans.

However, my problem is that if we self-censor ourselves, then Ashcroft won't have to call in the stormtroopers. We'll be doing his job for him.

[okieinpain]

29. I understand, repugs are very violent about the subject of

bush. I only speak up when they get to telling their lies.

[JackDragna]

30. I meet plenty of fearful people.

It's sort of hard for me to do, as I'm extremely formal when it comes to talking to people I don't know. I don't want to offend, so I don't bring up religion or politics, as a rule. It does strike me, however, how many people, when politics is brought up, feel ashamed to admit they're a liberal. Many of them even feel guilty supporting the liberal side of a politcial argument if the rest of their politics are conservative.

[LiberalVoice]

39. Not me.

I have enoug shirts and hats that exclaim that i'm a liberal then most conservatives can count. I let them know right off the bat when they're wrong, and when they are lying.

[Cat Atomic]

31. She may have been a former Republican.

I've noticed a certain shame in Republicans who also have a degree of humanity- or intelligence. They're ashamed of Bush and their party, but find it very difficult to admit.

[ArkDem]

32. We have had our country's soldiers dying for two centurys too

protect our right to be assholes. I, for one, am not going to let them down!

[davsand]

34. I'm pretty upfront about my politics.

I have NO reluctance at all to stand and debate, nor do I feel much need for restraint in talking about politics in a social setting. I figure that anybody who is pissed at me for speaking out on the Presidential race probably isn't going to want to hang out to hear my other opinions anyway...

Now, having said all that, I will also say that I think this fear and reluctance to speak up is probably coming into play in the polls we hear about every day on the news. I'll grant you that the polling pool is probably skewed anyhow--but I think a LOT of folks just don't feel safe expressing anything negative in public about this asswipe in the White-house.

If you get polled it is either a person on the phone that you don't know, or it is some machine that just tabulates responses. Either way, it is self exposure and given how divided this nation is right now, I think people are scared to say anything in public that could be seen as negative to the Whitehorse.

I doubt they are afraid of the BFE Gestapo--that seems to be peculiar to us lefties. I think the fear is based more on the idea that Bush might just BE the one that wins--and it will be most unpleasant in the neighborhood for anybody who opposed him.

Stand up tall, all of you! Get in their faces. You have the facts and the information to scare hell outta the uber-conservatives.


Laura

[progressivebydesign]

35. Happens all the time now!!!!

People say they support Kerry, but they WHISPER it... or they look around and WHISPER if they don't like Bush.

I worked with a girl, years ago..named Gabbi, she and her family made it out of Romania... this was 20 years ago. She told me many times of life there. We sat in a restaurant and she would still be nervous as we talked about how you could NEVER sit in a public place and talk about the government, if a government official heard you.. you'd be dragged away, most often it was another citizen that turned you in for a reward or brownie points with the government. Last week, when a friend visited from Europe, I had to let her know that she needed to be careful joking about things at the airports, and taking photos of things that would be considered questionable to someone hearing her foreign accent (local navy ships, emergency vehicles, bridges).

What have we come to since Ari uttered those infamous words, "watch what you say!". WE have never recovered... I have family members that work in companies owned by rightwingers... they cannot put Kerry stickers on their cars, because it would mean certain firing.

Freeper types jump on everyone that states an opinion different than theirs (or that does not meet the government approved standard), and tries to get that person fired or have them lose their business. Coordinated email campaigns are in place to punish anyone they don't agree with.. it's fascism, plain and simple. A few years ago, I read a lengthy description of true fascism. The term had been thrown about so much, I wanted to completely understand it. We are dancing around it.. but it's in the room.

Getting out the vote this time is our only way to stop it... then we make changes from within our system, then we make changes to the media, then we make changes in our society.. no longer accepting shadowy groups eating away our democracy. I do agree that this is the most important election in our lifetime..

[ismnotwasm]

37. I CAN"T be quiet

I can be diplomatic where it's essential, like where I work (health care)and side step inappropriate conversations with my patients. But my off time is my own. I was at a fair in a conservative county where they were giving away cheap bush/cheney posters There were a lot of them. So I got a Kerry/Edwards yard sign and started carrying it around. It's gotten so bad that certain co-workers of mine bring up * just to see me melt down.

[EnfantTerrible]

42. I worry about posting

The Patriot Act allows Asscroft to read my e-mail and check my computer... I still post obviously, but I am aware that others may be watching what I say even if I don't always do so.

[dorktv]

43. Here is what I say:

THANK GOD FOR SECRET BALLOTS! Could you imagine if we still had the public voting of yesteryear?

[Disturbed]

44. USSR

I was thinking today that I am getting a small inkling of what it must've been like for radicals in the Soviet Union or Communists in the USA in the 50's.