Just heard second debate being discuss on PBS

[Bandit]

It is supposed to be a Town hall type forum but all questions are to be submitted before hand and if someone from the audience starts to ask a different question than what's on the list they will be cut off. Talk about spontaneity. Bush* just can't deal with unrehearsed questions no matter what.

[Flammable Materials]

1. I think every single person should ask a different question.

Then perhaps America would see a glimpse behind the curtain. Imagine if every questioner got cut off.

[K-W]

2. It's worse than lacking sponteneity.

The president of the United States has lied himself to a point where there is a large batch of questions he simply cant be asked without incriminating himself.

That is the state of the union.

[cornermouse]

3. Now with Bill Moyers.

[Wonk]

17. Great show this week - mp3 & video here for those who missed it

Debatable debates
5 M mp3
59 M quicktime
The segment being discussed in this thread


Peter Peterson
3 M mp3
29 M quicktime

Sore Winners
4 M mp3
39 M quicktime

on edit:
http://www.pbs.org/now/
http://www.pbs.org/now/thisweek/index.html
http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/debates.html
http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/debatehistory.html
http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/debatehistory2.html

[deadparrot]

4. This is really disgusting.

[Kanary]

5. Unfortunately, it ain't just *

Per last night's NOW, both parties draw up agreements ahead of time, and sign them. The strictures come from both parties.

What a crock, all the way around.

Kanary

[Nite Owl]

6. What could be good is if

some starts to ask a spontaneous question of Kerry and they try to cut him off and Kerry says something like, "That wasn't my rule, I'm not afraid of questions like my opponent is." He would handle it well and show * up for the coward he is.

[Kanary]

8. Actually, it *is* Kerry's rule.

They work out the agreement ahead of time, and both sign it.

He's just as much part of the agreement as *.

Kanary

[K-W]

10. You are being disingenous.

Yes, we dont know exactly how the negotiations went, but it has been well documented that Bush was not comfortable with the town hall format and never has been, while Kerry has had no quams about answering questions.

It would surprise me greatly if this was something Kerry agreed with. And if Kerry simply agreed to it, in order to get some of his demands met it is not Kerry's rule. Kerry had to make concessions simply to get Bush to do three debates.

That these rules are a result of a negotiation between Kerry and Bush does not mean what you say, that they are both equally in favor of every provision of the compromise.

[w4rma]

21. I agree. Kanary is being very disingenous.

Kanary is pulling the same bullcrap that the corporate media pulls with the "both side do it" trickery.

And below, Kanary uses the straw man tactic of creating an exagerated situation ('we have to realize that "our side" isn't perfect') to beat on.

[napi21]

13. Kerry can't do that either. His side signed the contract too.

You really do have to listen to the "NOW" with Bill Moyer. It's not on video yet, but I'm hoping it will be in a week or so.

He explaines that both sides realize selections have been lost because of mistakes made during the debates, and neither is willing to take the chance of their guy making any!

[K-W]

14. Indeed, but the two sides are different in how they do that

I think it is very unfair to just say that both sides are doing the same thing here.

Both sides know that Kerry has more to gain from the debates than Bush. Kerry wants the chance to speak on national television on a variety of issues. Bush has told so many lies about so many things that he is rightly afraid of anything resembling a debate.

So yes, both sides had demands to benefit thier candidates, but I do think that overall the Kerry side was fighting for having 3 debates where the issues would be discussed and Bush was for having a few debates as possible and limiting discussion as much as possible.

They are both playing a political game that in itself is a problem, but lets not let that distract from the clear differences between the two candidates on thier approach to debates and discussions about the issues.

[napi21]

18. Oh of course each side was fighting thieer own position!

The problem I have with the whole debate process is that both sides agreed to NOT asked any direct questions of each other! Each has 20 seconds to rebut. Give me a break here! What the heck can you say, of substance, in 20 seconds???

I'm not slamming Kerry with my remarks, I'm slamming the Debate Commission! Bring back the League of Women Voters, and tell both sides they're just going to have to play the cards they're dealt!

[Kanary]

19. The League of Women Voters backed out *BECAUSE* of these enforced

"agreements". They had the integrity to stick to their values.

At some point, we have to realize that "our side" isn't perfect, either, and shares some of the blame for some of this. the Dems had a part in this, and we need to recognize that, and pressure our own party, also.

Kanary

[K-W]

20. Agreed 100%

I know you weren't slamming Kerry, its just easy to lose the important differences between the candidates when analyzing the overall problems of the system... just ask Ralph Nader.

[BootinUp]

7. What was the organization

the guy on NOW was from? They are working for better debates. I think we need to be supporting them.

[cornermouse]

9. Debates went downhill when the League of Women

Voters refused to knuckle under and quit.

[Gin]

11. I watched the show...and I think I heard the agreement both candidates

signed will be on the PBS website. I have not checked it out yet.
The guest wrote a book about it...and I can't recall his name.

[K-W]

12. A truely independent debate commision is on the long list

of things that desperately need to be changed if we have any hope of salvaging the current system.

[Gin]

15. You can find the 2004MemorandumUnderstanding in PDF format

at the NOW site....the guest was George Farah with www.opendebates.com

He gave a copy of the PDF to NOW. I couldn't open or download it.. But it supposedly lists the do's and dont's in the debates for both and both signed off on it.

[K-W]

16. Thanks for the tip, it opened for me

http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/2004MemorandumUnderstanding.pdf